- [Interviewer] If you were alone in a room
with a gay pastor, what would you ask?
- Do you view yourself as an openly gay pastor
as a political statement?
- What are your thoughts on conversion therapy?
- Does it really say in the Bible that being gay is a sin?
- So the first thing is we have to look at is that...
(upbeat drumming)
- Hi, I'm Hadidas, and I have some questions for you today.
- Awesome. Nice to meet you, Hadidas.
My name is Pastor Curt.
- My first question is, what is your religion?
- I am a progressive Pentecostal,
which would be a Christian.
- What inspired you to become a Pastor?
- It's a funny story. I really didn't desire to be a pastor.
I wanted to be a police officer.
And so I always joke when I'm preaching
that I got the peas mixed up.
There was a church looking for a youth leader,
so I took the youth leader job,
developed a passion and a love for it.
- Is being gay ever an issue for you?
Like, does that affect you being a pastor in any way?
- In some instances it does.
I get uninvited to stuff and I'm the black sheep
of some of some spaces.
You know, something happened that was really funny.
One of my friends invited me to come
and preach at his church.
Some of the members from that congregation
wanted to hear me again, so they came to my church.
I wanted to thank God for my boyfriend being there,
and I saw every person that came from that congregation,
they got up and exited, stage right.
- Oh, wow.
- I get a lot of hate mail,
that I'm going to hell and I'm teaching false doctrine.
In the beginning of my ministry, that hurt me.
On the flip side, when a young person comes to you
and they're thinking about committing suicide,
then who's gonna hold them up and tell them,
"You know what, you don't have to give up
"and you don't have to allow people to dictate your path.
"You have the power to dictate your own path."
- I definitely resonate with that a lot.
- Have you ever had to hide yourself
to the people of your church?
- I don't think that I hid my sexuality
or hid who I am but I did use a lot of discretion
so that I wouldn't offend people.
It took me until 26 to actually, authentically, be myself.
I went through this journey of dating girls and dating guys.
I would go out with my girlfriend
because I wanted everybody in the church to love me
and to like me and then I would go home
and cuddle with my boyfriend after.
It wasn't until like I had an "ahoo" moment,
I just said basically to hell with people
and I understand that God created me
and he built me to be the person that I am.
And nobody can be Curt but Curt.
- I mean, I'm also gay.
- Yay.
(Curt clapping) - Yay! (giggling)
And it definitely took me a bit longer
than I would've liked to have figured it out.
- How did the acceptance in the church
of queer people affect you and your own mental state?
- I don't think my sexuality was exposed yet.
But I will tell you that I use hand gestures
and the bishop called me into his office and he was like,
"All those, those hand gestures and stuff like that
"that you're doing, men, don't do that."
It triggered me to where if I move my hands,
I'll catch myself, put my hands together
and say, no, don't move your hands.
- I remember I had a similar experience,
not so much hand movements, but the way I walked.
Like, I remember it was like three of the older guys
were like, "You know, you walk like a girl.
"Why is your butt out like that?"
(Curt chuckling)
And I didn't think I was walking like so flamboyantly
but that moment stuck with me up until now
I still think about it.
- I think that in the world that we live in today
that we can actually be more gender fluid.
- Mhm.
- And if you like it, you like it, make it work.
So that's how the world needs to be.
Make it work.
- Yeah.
- How does your family handle your sexuality
and your religious together?
- My family is very understanding.
In all actuality, my parents are members of my church.
I don't really have a coming out story
because I really never came out,
I just became more authentically myself.
But I will say I had an initial conversation
with my parents.
My mom said that she already knew.
It took my dad two years,
he would use terms like 'them' and 'those people.'
Now he understands that at the end of the day
that it's all about love.
- Have you ever taken and 'Am I gay?' quiz?
- No, I've never done that.
- I've taken them.
- Okay. - That's why I asked.
- What was your results?
- Bisexual, baby.
- All right. (laughing)
- Do you view yourself as an openly gay pastor
as a political statement?
- Mm, no.
Me being a pastor just means
that I'm passionate about people,
and that God has called me and giving me a unique identifier
to be able to love and to appreciate
and to speak life into people.
- Does it really say in the Bible that being gay is a sin?
- Biblical text doesn't introduce the word homosexuality
until the 1900s.
And so then you have to go back
and you have to look at the original manuscript,
which frames it from a different perspective.
So it talks about giving the natural affection
of a man to a woman or a woman to a man.
Well, what is your natural affection?
Is your natural affection to a man
or is your natural affection to a woman?
We are divinely everything that God wants us to be.
- I think that's awesome.
I've never heard that part of it before.
- What are your thoughts on conversion therapy?
- Oh, I think there's the stupidest thing
that somebody could ever do
and I hope that whoever does that,
I hope that they find a guiding light.
People can't be converted from who they authentically are.
There's something that was called Exodus.
They would learn the Bible
and they would stay there and pray,
and think that that would change their situation.
But they found out that
they were sneaking in each other's rooms late at night,
so it didn't work. (chuckling)
- Do you believe that you will go to hell?
- Oh, hecky by jecky, no. I'm not going to hell.
I think that God is very heart intended,
and so he looks at our heart.
I don't think in him, there's neither male nor female.
- I definitely think that God looks at your soul
and not at who you choose to love.
- How does it make you feel when more conservative pastors
spread hate about the LGBTQ community,
and even like spread like threats?
- It hurts my feelings that people operate in hate
especially when we serve a God that loves.
John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world."
When people teach hate instead of love
it makes me one, question their ability
to really hear from God or to speak for God.
- Was there ever a time that you resented the church?
- Yes, I had a situation where I was fired
and I resented the church for a very long time.
My therapist was able to help me understand
how to feel better about myself.
- So how does one take religion
and come to terms with themselves?
Like, this is that love you're talking about.
How do we find our own truth?
- The first misconception
is that people want to be religious.
God's desire is to be relational with us.
If we go back to Genesis and we look in the garden
with Adam and Eve, God was building relationship with them,
he wasn't building religion with them.
- Do you ever get any judgment from queer people
about you being so religious?
- So many gay people have been hurt
or damaged by the church.
You know, it does take people a minute
to realize that religion is not what we do,
relationship is what we build.
- What advice would you give to a gay person
who is fearful of going to church?
- You can Google and find churches
that are inclusive and accepting,
and then after you do that you have to find a church
that meets your specific needs.
I think one of the downfalls with going to just any church
is that some churches are tolerant
but they're not celebratory.
A church that tolerates people
is a church where you won't see anybody
that looks like you in the leadership.
I started my church 12 years ago
because I wanted to make sure that there was
a place where people could feel comfortable and safe.
My church is not just a gay church.
So you have straight people, you have gay people,
you have upside down people, you know,
we're like Dr. Seuss, you know,
it's a table full of everybody.
- So would you say your church is like
more of the eccentric, loud,
or is it more on like quiet side?
- My church is... loud.
Jump, scream, holler, enjoy yourself while you're there.
Renewed, which is the name of my church.
You can experience renewal in whatever process or way
that you need to experience it.
We have this time in the service where we do meet and greet
and a girl came up to me after, at the end of the service
and said that she hadn't been hugged by anyone in two years.
- Just knowing that someone like you
as an openly queer pastor is just out there in the world
and just like a young little gay boy
is able to look at you and be like, wow,
is very special to me and I want thank you personally.
- Ah, thank you.
So you say, I'm out here and I'm out here to stay.
- [Interviewer] Would you guys like to meet each other?
- Yes. - I would love to.
- Ah, I knew it was you. - It's me!
- You are a fireball.
I knew you were short.
- Smash or pass, Jesus.
- Oh, I'm gonna pass on Jesus.
(laughing)
Oh, I don't even want to think about it like that.
- My bad, my bad.