Hey everybody!
Thank you so much for checking back.
I, once again, have a wonderful guest, Paul Gilmartin, here to share his insight on healing from incest.
So, stay tuned
So like I said, I have a wonderful special guest today Paul Gilmartin. He has taken time out of his busy schedule to sit down with us.
And Paul if you don't know. If you haven't watched our other videos, go back and check those out and I will link those here on the screen
He has the mental illness happy hour.
And it's a podcast that I have been on twice. It is wonderful
He shares his information. It comes out once a week. I will put the link below for you to check that out.
But today we are here to talk about healing from incest and I know I get a ton of questions from those of you who have been in sexual abuse situations with family members.
Umm. And kind of a little bit about how we heal from that.
So I guess for starters I know a lot of my viewers worry that they are making it up.
Or that this is a dream you had. Or you are exaggerating and you are a baby. And that you are throwing that person under the bus.
And the parents are always wrong. Why are you always blamming the parents.
I shouldn't. My therapist made me think this. "Yup"
So, I guess the question is "how did you come to accept that this is a reality". That his really did happen.
I couldn't even use that word to describe it until probably a year in a half to two years ago.
Probably into a year after I knew the stuff that had happened to me was on the spectrum of incest.
Cause you know my abuser was my mom and it was never really overt.
You know there wasn't intercourse. There wasn't you know she never grabbed my genitals or anything.
like that. But there was a lot of things that were very objectifying.
where I felt like I was being tricked.You know. Just an example, she took my temperature rectally until I 8 years old and
I remember feeling umm. Is she getting something out of this? This feels weird.
This doesn't feel right. Yeah
There were a bunch of other things like that. I always felt like that.
I always felt like her husband. She never had any interest in my dad.
And umm
I could go on and on
but my wife would always say to me I don't think you really dealt with this.
Because she could see in the way my mom looked at me and touch me
umm. Even as an adult
yeah as an adult. You're a married man so
She said that your mom creeps me out and I don't like the way she touches you. I don't like the way she looks at you.
And I always thought "well, you just don't like my mom. You're trying to throw her under the bus."
Cause my mom is a handful and there are parts of her that are great but there is also a part to her that is really sicken.
yeah.
So the way it started was I got sober from drugs and alcohol and that was the first layer of un-numbing.
myself, so after about six years of sobriety I began to feel this. I don't know. This pain or this emptiness
And I started reaching for pornography to try to soothe it.
A lot of people who have been sexually abused as kids, sex becomes sometimes our first way of soothing ourselves.
It's a self-soothing. It's a comfort. That's why we say we are using these coping skills trying to fill that void.
As a kid I always felt like why isn't everybody else as interested in sex as I am.
You know, at six or seven year old. You know, I didn't know what intercourse was
But in terms of you show me yours and I'll show you mine
Yeah, sexualized as a kid
I always felt like a pervert and I always felt like I am dirty and I'm wrong.
And there are some stuff that. There is one instance in particular where like my mom gave me a bath at a really inappropriate age. I think I was like 12.
Maybe even 13 because I had fallen and gotten gravel in my knee but I remember feeling like I'm being tricked. Like I shouldn't be naked in front of my mom.
At this age
And I thought about putting a bathing suit on
in the bath tub, but then I could hear her voice in my head. Like she would always say when I would try to cover up or she would say oh it's nothing I haven't seen before.
You know. She would make me feel ashamed for wanting to have personal boundaries.
Exactly
So, I didn't wear a bathing suit and I'm waiting for her to come in and I became extremely aroused.
And I was aroused while she was working on my knee and I felt like the biggest monster in the world.
And I blamed myself for years. I thought that I was weird. Only after I got sober from drugs and alcohol and I started going to a support group for dealing with pornography
and the fear of intimacy
in my relationship with my wife
could I began putting all of those pieces together
the temperature taking, the weird baths, the grabbing my ass and telling me how attractive I am
that talking to me like a spouse. Confiding in me like a spouse.
At seven years old about how crappy her marriage is and how she wants to leave all of us
All these really inappropriate things
I could finally see that pattern and that's when it hit me
And it came out and in just this volcano of pain.
And I went to my wife cause my first instinct was I'm gonna go look at pornography
I'm gonna numb myself out.
And the I thought. I've been in a support group and they said to talk to somebody you trust. Talk about your feelings
Which I did not want to do. Which is not comfortable.
Especially to say it out loud for the very first time feels too vulnerable. Too much. I'm exaggerating.
I'm throwing that person under the bus.
Sometimes there were great things about that person and they helped us.
People aren't always all bad. And having something terrible be done to you doesn't take away some of the good attributes.
It also validates the experience you've had and what you are feeling.
That's the important part. I may think I'm making it up. I've exaggerated.
All that needs to..
I've told myself that about a hundred thousand times that you are a terrible son that you are throwing her under the bus. That other people have it worse.
But I went to my wife and I said "that I need a hug" and the words just came out.
I said she tricked me. She used me. I was a good boy and I didn't deserve it. And I just started sobbing.
And my wife said "I've been waiting 20 years for you to say this." And it was so nice to have my pain validated.
Often times you are the only one who really knew exactly what went on.
Yeah. Cause you haven't talked about it.
And you know the brain has a way of minimizing things, so we can get up and get on with our day.
And so we will blame ourselves. If like in my case there was some arousal. But, I finally looked at it and went "that shouldn't have happened."
I shouldn't have been put in that place.
Exactly. And that's a natural response. It's not something that you willed to happen that way. Some things you can't help. That's why men and boys who have been sexually abused will feel like well I got it up, so I must have wanted it too.
And that is not the same thing
A lot of women will orgasm during sexual abuse. A guest on my podcast who was brave enough to share that when her father was sexually abusing her that she was 11 or 12 years old. She came to enjoy it physically and a couple of times even initiated it with him.
But she knew after having some recovery that it is still on him. That is up to the adult. She had been kind of trained to.
Yes. She had been sexualized in a way that was not appropriate and it's up to the adult. He shouldn't have been doing it in the first place or she would have never known that or initiated it.
She probably didn't even know what that was. He introduced it.
And the other thing is a lot of times sexual fantasies will be left in their wake. They revolve around the act. And that doesn't mean that you wanted it either.
That is your brains way of trying to go back and fix it.
And that is a really important part of recovery.
Not shaming yourself for the way your brain is trying to cope.
Yeah. Cause our brain. That's the fascinating thing about being a human is like the fact that it tries to tell you that it is not bad. So, you can get up and you can function. Our brain also tries to recreate the same type of relationship in hopes that this time it will come out better.
And so we end up like reliving the scenario over and over and over with horrible results. But, it's another one of those pat yourself on the back because you are really trying to work your shit out.
That's why we are so adaptable. We can overcome. That's why things do get better.
That's why it is worth reaching out. Why it's worth saying the words out-loud to yourself at first and then to somebody else.
And working on it because it did happen. It will get better.
And you can shift the way that you operate.
In a way to make it more healthy
How has this changed the way that you have boundaries with other people?
Like, in your life or even with your mother
I cut contact with her about three years ago.
And it's not because of the things that she did. It's because of her present day toxicity and her either refusal or inability to see her part in things.
And respect boundaries and that's been the most painful thing. Because I feel guilt about it till this day
But, the guilt has eased over the last couple of years. And, you know. A healthy thing. A helpful thing to add is to ask yourself. Put yourself in that parents position and say "would I. What would I do in this situation."
For instance, I asked my mom "can you stop grabbing my ass and telling me how attractive I am? Can you stop when I pick up the phone saying hello Mr. Gilmartin this is Mrs. Gilmartin." All these things I would have to say "can you please stop doing this."
You would think. You know, I put myself in her shoes. I though if my child even the first time they brought that to my attention if I truly loved them. I would be very aware of anything I did. That would be a wake up call for me.
And that hasn't been a wake up call for her.
It's just like an octopus where I put one arm down and there is another one coming at me.
And I finally just couldn't take it anymore and I had to come to the conclusion that this person isn't going to change.
And I am not getting anything out of this relationship. I have compassion for her. I know she is sick. I'm sure she was sexually abused.
The phrase I like to say is "have compassion for other people, but not at the expense of compassion for yourself."
That's a great saying
I had to finally have compassion for myself and that meant cutting her out of my life. I left her a message and I said "I don't hate you. I'm not mad at you. I'm just exhausted by our relationship and I need a break."
And then after about a year I just thought maybe we can do letters. Cause then I could have some boundaries. I said I don't want to talk about the past. Because I know she wouldn't own any of that stuff.
oh yeah.
And she started trying to throw other relatives under the bus.
In the letters, I would just get depressed for a week after reading it and I finally went "I just can't do it."
I'm still sad that I don't have a mom. I want to have a mom.
But, that's just the hand that I have been dealt with.
In life and I have to take care of my own sanity.
Yeah. And something I know that is never a full replacement. I always tell my clients too. Sometimes, I mean all of the time. We can't control what other people do, but we can only control what we do.
And how we react. Exactly.
And so if we have done everything we can. We've tried and to put the olive branch out and make it somewhat healthy for you
while keeping compassion for the relationship.
And it doesn't work.
We can find someone that is a mother like figure. And I always encourage people. The great thing about working on yourself and becoming an adult is you get to make your own family.
Yes
And I don't think people realize that. I know people are like well blood is thinker than water. There are all these sayings.
Family.Family.Family.Family.
Family sticks together. But, if it is not good, then it is okay for you to find someone who is mothering to you.
Who can father you the way you wished you had been fathered.
And that I found that in my support groups.
mother figures and father figures
Yeah. Sometimes we will even seek it out.
Because we know we have a need that needs to be met.
And that's the great thing about how adaptable we are too because we will try to find people who can.
The tricky thing I guess is making sure they are healthy.
And making sure we are not placing expectations that are too high on them.
Because they still are human beings and human beings will let us down.
So, we have to make sure that we don't have a magical version of what they are going to be for us.
Has going through all of this helped with or changed the boundaries with your wife?
In that relationship
Yes, it has helped me speak up for myself. There was a lot of stuff that I had swept under the rug because you know I was the good boy growing up.
I didn't even know what I was feeling.
So, I couldn't even identify you know that I was feeling sad or angry or that something was bothering me.
So, it's helped me speak up for myself. It's helped me establish boundaries with other people.
For the first time in twenty-five years I was able to say to my wife sometimes I don't like the tone of voice you use with me. It makes me feel stupid.
It makes me feel disrespected.
Where before I would just shut down and go back to my video game for five hours or look at pornography
And I don't want to do that nowadays.
I deserve better and she deserves to know that she is doing that. She can't read your mind. She wasn't aware of it.
The family she grew up in that's how they talk to each other when they disagreed.
It's just chemistry.
It didn't work for you.
And it takes us awhile to learn to speak up for ourselves and fell okay saying how we feel. Because growing up, almost all of us grow up in some kind of unhealthy family situation.
And a lot of that is negating how we innately feel as children.
And I always tell my clients like how children automatically have this thought of "but I don't like that. I don't wanna." We are very honest.
We express like "But I'm sad today." We would just say it and there would be no judgement and no filter.
Children are wonderful that way.
Growing up if you are told "no, no. Nothing's wrong. Don't worry. Don't cry. Boy's don't cry" or "Nothing is wrong. You are exaggerating. Everything is fine with your dad and I."
Or whatever we are told like "You are wrong. You can't trust yourself. You can't actually.." It's one of the worst things you can do to a child.
Because then they doubt what they are feeling.
Yeah. For the rest of their lives.
Your body is your should be your best friend.
It tells us everything we need to know.
When you have a lot of tension, something is going on. If you are wanting to drink all of a sudden you haven't had the urge forever, something is going on.
Your eating disorder is piling up or you are wanting to self harm or you are watching pornography for hours or you are masterbating when you haven't done that in that way. Those are all signals and red flags that something is off.
It's just one of those things that I always just. How do we not do that to people? How do we appreciate and accept emotions and feeling? And knowing that it can be different, and that is okay.
That's why I think dealing with addictions first is so important because they numb us.
And you won't know what you are feeling, if you are numb.
So, once you remove that yeah you are going to be in an agitated state, but you are not going to be that way forever. Because you are going to realize what you are feeling and then suddenly you are going to have tools.
to deal with that. Because you are going to support group, going to therapy. And you will be able to let the steam out in ways that don't destroy your life.
The surveys we have on the website for the podcast. That has been so eye-opening for me on how many people have experienced incest.
It's astounding. So, you are not alone.
The shame is not yours.
to carry and I'm really happy to not carry that shame anymore.
To be able to talk about it.
It's like would you be ashamed to say that you were hit by a drunk driver?
No. So, why should you be ashamed to say that this happened to you?
You know sometimes I do think to myself that people will if you tell them you were sexually abused, people will think that you are a pedophile.
And so, sometimes that will pop up and I will be like I have to let that go.
Like Paul said, you are not alone.
And, the more that we start talking about it. The more we recognize that you are not making it up. This isn't something that you fabricated.
That it is real.
It is something that needs to be talked about more.
I encourage all of you to reach out to a therapist or reach out to a support group.
To share in the comments ways that you have healed and things that have helped you.
And even if there isn't someone in your regular life in real life that you can actually connect with, then know that we have a community of people also on the mental pod people connect with each other.
Aren't they able to comment back?
There is a forum, they email me, they fill out surveys.
It's really great.
There is a great book that really really helped me. It's about covert incest.
Because a lot of people the sexual abuse or the incest that happened you know there is a continuum.
There is outright sexual intercourse and then there is the parent would always happen to walk in the room when they were changing.
Or drink them in with their eyes. You know.
If a girl is in puberty. And stuff that just makes you feel gross.
And the thing they all share is that it makes you feel like you don't matter.
And there is a book that really really helped me about incest called Silently Seduced and I highly highly recommend it.
I'm gonna write that down.
It was. I was laughing out loud just reading the cover because I was like "Oh my gosh. That is my life."
Because a lot of people's experience doesn't fit in to a box.
It is going to give fuel to the part of your brain that is trying to protect yourself saying "this didn't really happen."
Exactly.
And that's why I think resources like that and people like you are so important.
to the community of those who have been suffering in silence and thinking "I made it up and it wasn't intercourse, so therefore I wasn't abused."
And that is not how it is.
We don't all fit in boxes like that.
That is not how it is.
I encourage all of you to check out Paul's Podcast The Mental Illness Happy Hour because it talks a lot about this and this process.
If you want more information, I will put the links below.
And like I said reach out to someone. If you don't have someone in your life, I encourage you to use both of our communities to get some extra support.
And understanding about what you have been feeling.
And thank you so much for taking the time today. This has been so wonderful.
I will see you all next Monday. Bye!