(gentle electronic music)
- I'm gonna ask a question that is probably controversial,
but I wanna know the answer.
Do you think there is a large percentage of people
who use the label of depression as an excuse
for not being productive, a good spouse,
boyfriend, girlfriend?
For not doing what they know they should be doing?
- I haven't encountered that yet.
- You have not encountered that?
- I have not.
That they would say...
'Cause what you're talking about, to me,
is a little sociopathic, I would say.
Where somebody would say, "Well, you know, screw you."
When people cheat, they might say,
"Oh well, whatever, I'm a guy."
"It's in my blood." Right?
When you're dismissing bad behavior.
When you're not taking ownership of it.
When you're not living up to your responsibilities
when you can, right?
But you simply choose not to, or you don't have empathy.
To me that's starting to fall under what we call
Character Pathology, or personality disorder.
Where you laugh something off, and you're like, "Ha ha ha."
I don't know that many people who would rather say,
"I have depression and that's why."
If somebody can say...
Most people who have depressed, let's put it this way,
who have depression,
don't know that that's the reason
why they're not functioning.
They don't use it as an excuse.
They will tell me, "I'm a shitty person."
"I'm a horrible person, I'm not a good spouse."
I'm, "Blah, blah, blah."
"I suck," right?
It's me who has to tell them,
"Well, yeah, no crap, you're depressed, that's why."
So I don't find that people use depression as an excuse.
And if they are using depression as an excuse,
it's going to make me think
that there's something else going on.
- I so got that.
I've, the reason I brought that up
is because I've been in conversations
where other people are talking about somebody
who is not living up to these people's expectations,
and they say,
"Well, and she keeps saying that she's depressed
and I know that's not the case."
When this person has said, "No, I am depressed."
And what I'm hearing is that if somebody is using the words,
"I'm depressed," believe them a hundred percent.
- Believe them a hundred percent.
Because it's not easy for someone to admit it,
to acknowledge it, to know it.
And to be able to make that connection,
because depression pulls you inward
and it makes you to start doubting yourself.
And it makes you second guess and say,
"I'm a worthless person," right?
And it takes a therapist or someone that loves you
to be able to come back out and be like,
"No, dude, look at it from the outside."
The outside, I see that you're suffering.
I see that you're sick.
You're not a bad person.
You need treatment. You need to get better.
So if you're saying, I'm depressed, believe 'em.
- Have you had people come into your office and say,
"Dr. Varma, I am depressed." "I am at my wits end."
And after your analysis, you said, "You're not depressed."
- I never want to invalidate what a person is experiencing.
If you're telling me, I am depressed,
I'm going to believe that.
Because it takes a of courage, a lot of guts,
a lot of energy for someone to get themselves
out of their house and plop down into your chair.
So if they're there-
- If they are depressed though?
- Yes.
- But don't you think there are people
who are not depressed, who just go because they...
And I'm not trying to make people upset.
But they go and they wanna be a victim.
And they wanna find a reason
that people should feel bad for them?
- Yes, well you're bringing an interesting point
which is one of the topics that I love,
is people who don't take responsibility, right?
I think we all fall on a spectrum of taking responsibility.
There are people who take absolutely none
and everything is everybody else's fault;
the victim that you're talking about.
And they can still be depressed.
They're depressed because
they take no freaking responsibility,
that's why they're depressed.
Because everything is everybody else's fault, right?
And they don't see their part in it.
And they keep continuing this maladaptive pattern of acting
and reacting to the world,
not recognizing what is my place in all of this insanity?
What am I contributing to the situation?
- Yes.
So that's a big takeaway for me.
So if you're going in saying you're depressed
because you are depressed, or saying you're depressed
because you are not taking responsibility, either way,
you're where you need to be,
which is getting help from a mental health professional.
- Right, and if it's somebody smart,
they're gonna challenge you and they're going to be like,
"All right, well, what is your role in all of this?"
"Your daughter hasn't talked to you in 10 years,
why is that, what happened?"
"What went wrong between you guys?"
"What did she say, what did you say?"
"And what is it that you want?"
People who come for for treatment are suffering.
That's the common denominator, you're suffering.
My job is to help you alleviate your suffering
and what can I do to change that?
How can we work together?
I'm not gonna just buy whatever you tell me and be like,
"Oh, the whole world is against me."
Really? The whole world is against you?
- Everybody in the whole world?
- They all hate you.
And they're all setting you up for failure, all right.
So I'm gonna say,
"I understand that that's how you feel."
"And I understand that that's how you experience it
and I feel bad."
"And I'm sorry that you're in this position
that you're made to feel this way."
"What can we do to change things?"
So in the beginning, depending on how ready
and how motivated a person is,
I may or may not challenge them, accordingly.
It really depends on what your readiness is.
Your readiness for responsibility is.
And what do you see as your role in this?
And sometimes it's not so clear to either of us
in the beginning, right?
Sometimes I've had patients who've come in
and blamed the other person.
I had a patient who was going through divorce
and she would tell me all these really horrible things
about the ex-husband:
that he shamed her, humiliated her,
and made her feel really bad about herself.
Made her question her value as a woman
in every possible way: her intelligence, her beauty.
And really painted an excellent picture of this evil person.
And as time went on we realized what her contribution
in all of this was.
And it was so fascinating because she was brilliant.
She was very articulate.
And I'd say, "You almost had me fooled for some time."
Until time went on and she felt more comfortable.
And some of that was ego and veil
and need to please me dropped.
And then we could have authentic conversations.
She felt safe and that I wasn't gonna judge her;
I was on her side.
And then was able to say, "I'm a difficult person."
And maybe there was a little bit of,
"Maybe I did contribute to the marriage falling apart."
"Maybe I was too stuck in my ways,
and a perfectionist and alienated this person."
(gentle electronic music)