-Thanks for letting me start sitting.
-I know. 'Cause -- Finally today.
-[ Chuckling ] I know.
-I've seen you all over the news today.
Thank you so much for coming to the show.
And congrats on the baby, by the way.
-Thank you. -That's fantastic.
Let's talk about today.
Walk me through what happened today.
-It was a seminal day. -Seminal day.
-It was huge.
I think everyone looks back to Watergate,
and they look back at John Dean as the moment from Watergate.
I think we have to look at this in much the same way.
This is Donald Trump's fixer.
It's his right-hand man for more than a decade
coming out and saying Donald Trump is full of it.
He's a cheat. He's a con man. He's a racist.
This is a guy that I would talk to on the campaign all the time,
and it did not matter at all what was going on.
Donald Trump was being accused of racism,
the "Access Hollywood" tape.
It didn't matter.
Michael Cohen would always, always defend him.
-Really? -And now he's coming out,
and he's saying, "I lied for -- for Trump,
and Trump may have committed a felony while he was president.
And, oh, by the way,
I threatened colleges and schools with legal action
if they released his grades."
I mean, it was --
it's incredible to hear somebody come out
and describe the President of the United States
as a cheat, as a con man.
-And you know Michael Cohen,
so you know the -- 'cause you were at the campaign.
You actually -- -Yeah.
-So this -- You believe him. -I know him really well.
I mean, listen, Michael Cohen has had --
you know, he's threatened journalists.
Michael Cohen has -- has -- is full of a lot of bluster.
He had that famous moment with Brianna Keilar,
where he said, "What polls?"
In some -- In some circumstances,
he was kind of a joke,
and not trustworthy in others.
But at the same time,
Michael Cohen was there for a lot of the big moments.
And Michael Cohen was always ready
and has always been ready
to protect the President at any cost.
And now he's saying, "Here is what I did."
I mean, you played that moment with Jackie Speier
where he said, "I was asked 500 times
to -- to threaten people..." -[ Chuckling ] Yeah, more.
-"...for Donald Trump."
And we've -- we've seen public instances
of when he's done that.
-Now, is this going to do anything to President Trump?
-Is it gonna change anything? -Yeah.
-[ Chuckling ] Well, that remains to be seen, I guess.
-I mean -- -I think you have to look
at how the hearing was treated.
The Democrats were asking him one line of questioning,
all about Donald Trump.
And the Republicans basically ignored Donald Trump,
didn't ask him anything
about the allegations that he was making
or the evidence that he brought with him.
-Yeah, I saw that.
-He brought checks and financial statements
and letters.
And, instead, they tried to relitigate
what the SDNY has already gotten him to plead guilty to,
which is that he's a liar... -Yeah.
-...and that he has committed tax fraud, et cetera.
So, when you look at it,
you have to consider why the Republicans are doing that.
And they're doing that because they believe
that their voters are still on Donald Trump's side.
So it -- it's -- it behooves them
to try and attack Michael Cohen's credibility.
When you see Republicans breaking,
I think you'll have a good indication
of where these constituencies stand,
what voters are thinking.
That being said, I don't think anyone has a real idea
of how voters across the country feel.
I mean, there's broad strokes.
Democrats hate Donald Trump.
Republicans are going to stand by him.
And there was a lot of people who --
who would vote for Donald Trump
even if he killed their dog. -Sure.
-They said that [Chuckling] on the campaign trail.
-Yeah. -But there's that --
there's that marginal voter, the Trump trier voter,
in places --
in counties in Michigan and counties in Pennsylvania
who weren't sure about him
and wanted to take a chance on him,
and are they still with him?
There's evidence so far to say that they're questioning things.
So, is that going to affect what happens in 2020?
And -- And don't -- And don't forget,
I mean, a lot of people just didn't show up in 2020,
either because they didn't like Hillary Clinton
or they just assumed that Hillary Clinton was going to win
and it was no use.
-How did you think Michael Cohen handled himself?
Did you think -- -I thought he was --
I thought he was really authentic.
-You did? -I mean,
as somebody who knows him and knows him well,
I think Michael Cohen came off exactly like Michael Cohen is.
He didn't seem rehearsed. He didn't seem practiced.
He didn't seem like he was reading off a script.
There were very few instances
where Lanny Davis, one of his lawyers,
leaned in and gave him -- gave him advice.
He pushed back when he felt like he was being unfairly maligned.
He admitted very openly and bluntly
that he was accused of lying, and he had --
and he did lie... -Yeah.
-...and that he committed crimes,
and that is why he's going to jail.
I think he came off as well as he possibly could have.
-And when asked about collusion with Russia,
he was like, "I don't know."
-Exactly. And that's another point to his credibility.
He was willing to say, "I don't know."
He was willing to -- He was willing --
If he was -- If you're going to attack his credibility,
I would look at the portions
where he was talking about Russia,
because that was where --
that would be where he would lie, potentially.
-Yeah.
-And when he was talking about Russia, he said flatly,
"I don't have any direct evidence
that Donald Trump or the campaign colluded with Russia,
but I do have my suspicions."
And he did offer corroborating evidence for other things,
but he did not offer corroborating evidence for that.
So I think, when you look at whether or not to trust him,
you have to consider what he was willing to say,
what he was not willing to say.
But, also, I mean, he's in front of Congress.
He's already been convicted of lying to Congress.
-Yeah. That's why he's there.
-If he lies to them again... -Yeah.
-...he's potentially facing more jail time.
-Oh, it was wild. It was tense. Thank you for that.
I know you wrote this great book "Unbelievable"
about the campaign trail when you were with Donald.
Would you ever write a sequel to this book?
-I haven't really thought about it, technically.
-[ Chuckling ] No? -Officially.
But if I did, I think it would be called "Believable."
[ Laughter ]
[ Applause ] -Yeah. I guess, yeah.
Congrats on baby number one. -Thank you!
-You and your husband, Tony.
Thank you so much for being here.
I really appreciate it. -Thanks for having me.
-No, please, I'm a fan. [ Cheers and applause ]
Our thanks to Katy Tur.
Catch her show weekdays at 2:00 p.m. on MSNBC Live.