DR. CAMPBELL: We worked on that question.
Does protein actually increase cancer risk?
And for the biochemical point of view,
I was really interested in what's
going on inside of the body and inside of cells and so forth.
And I learned a lot about the relationship between diet
and cancer, and then eventually diet and other diseases
like heart disease or diabetes and so forth.
So it's all the same, essentially.
And it does involve the role of protein, especially protein
from animal foods.
DR. PINEDA OCHOA: So a little bit
expanding on that, Dr. Campbell.
Most people feel like they need to consume
animal protein, animal products, in order
to maintain their health and to get adequate nutrition.
From your insights and your career,
from all those years of research,
what is the association between animal protein
and carcinogenicity?
What is the takeaway message?
DR. CAMPBELL: Well, the main thing
is that the protein-- first off, I
should say we get all the protein we need from plants.
DR. PINEDA OCHOA: We can get everything we need?
DR. CAMPBELL: We don't need any more protein.
DR. PINEDA OCHOA: Just eating plants.
DR. CAMPBELL: That's right.
Plants have all the protein we need.
In fact, plants can actually provide us
really excessive amounts of protein.
And this is something a lot of people don't realize.
They think protein is only from animals.
Plants have plenty of protein.
And so in our research protein, especially from animals--
protein is an essential nutrient.
We need a certain amount.
But when we go above that, especially by consuming animal
foods, when we go above that, that's
when cancer may start to grow.
That's when heart disease may get going and so forth.
So it's the protein going up.
In a practical sense, when we start
putting more and more animal foods in our diet
to get that protein, it's an idea
that people don't necessarily think about the science.
But they eat the animal foods supposedly
to get enough protein.
When they put more protein in there,
they're increasing the risk for all these diseases,
not just because of the protein, but also
because as they do that, they displace
the consumption of the foods that really matter.
That's the plant-based foods.
Plant foods is where all the health is.
Animal foods, no.
DR. PINEDA OCHOA: No.
What if somebody told you, well, can I
eat-- what if I eat a lot of vegetables and fruits
but still eat some chicken, some fish?
Do you still think--
DR. CAMPBELL: Not a good idea.
DR. PINEDA OCHOA: --that the optimum idea
is to eat whole foods, plant-based vegan diet,
so no animal products and no processed things.
DR. CAMPBELL: The goal -- I like to say it
this way -- the goal is to just eat only plant-based foods.
For some people, that can mean saving their life, especially
somebody who might be predisposed to get heart
disease or something like that.
DR. PINEDA OCHOA: Or cancer with all of the cancer insights
that you have --
DR. CAMPBELL: That's right.
DR. PINEDA OCHOA: --all of the experiments.
DR. CAMPBELL: We've got cells in our body, all of us do,
that could grow into cancer.
And so it's like weeds in a garden.
The seeds may be there.
They're not growing if you don't give them water and fertilizer
and so forth.
DR. PINEDA OCHOA: Or they get destroyed.
We probably have cancer cells every day
that get destroyed by our immune system.
DR. CAMPBELL: Exactly.
So when we're eating animal-based foods, what
we're doing, we're fertilizing those cancer cells.
We'll cause them to grow.
And when we do that, we're not consuming the foods that
actually prevent the growth.
Plant-based foods, they prevent the growth.