Hello and welcome to Stumped, your intercontinental hit of news, features, and debate
from the quirky world of cricket. I'm Alison Mitchell and I'm back in London after what was a
fabulous holiday in Uganda. If you're watching on YouTube, I am wearing the yellow and red shirt of
Uganda. I'll just sit up a bit so you can see the name on it. That was presented to me by the Uganda
cricket teams, men's and women's. It was all rather an unplanned visit. I was there primarily
to do some horse riding. Hello to the Bowser family, a wonderful family who put me up staying
with them and I met a lot of Stumped fans actually in the course of my week out in Uganda. But also
managed to get to Murchison Falls National Park, which was a stunning place. Game drives,
the most powerful waterfall in the world. The River Nile winds its way through, did some fishing
as well. So, combined all of my favourite things. Uganda is known as the 'Pearl of Africa', so I
do recommend a visit if you get the chance. Ali, welcome back. Sounds amazing! I'm Brett Sprigg
at the ABC in Sydney, where incidentally Narendra Modi has been visiting, the Indian PM. And it's
such a big occasion that they cast the Indian flag on the sails of the Sydney Opera House. They do
this only for special occasions, very special occasions. They didn't do it for the King's
coronation recently, which was a divisive matter. But they did this time. Of course, it's all about
strengthening ties between Australia and India. But those ties have always been pretty strong on
this programme, haven't they? I don't know about the cricket field, Brett, but they remain strong
otherwise. This is Charu Sharma for Akashvani. I'm in the capital city of the northern state, the
most populous state, Uttar Pradesh and the city of Lucknow. Now, of course a modern metropolis,
but otherwise lots of history and heritage. Just a wonderful city. I'm here to assist at the opening
ceremony of what is called the Khelo India University Games, which is sort of a national
games as India tries to become a bigger sporting superpower. This of course is for the University
folk. But of course, all eyes on the closing weekend of the IPL. And we'll soon have hopefully
a new champion, but maybe not because all the teams that are likely to go through to the final
have been champions before. We see. Ali, though. Uganda sounds such a fabulous visit. I'm sorry I
cannot get up and show any shirt, because I don't have a Uganda shirt and we see you're not wearing
a pearl that despite the fact that you went to the pearl of Africa. Tell us just a little more,
will you, especially about the cricket there? Well, yeah, the cricket side of it actually came
about by the fact that the week before I left, I'd said on Stumped that I wouldn't be here next
week because I was off to Uganda to ride horses. Next thing I know, I got a DM on my Instagram from
Denis Musali, who is the Uganda Cricket media manager, who is a huge Stumped fan. In fact,
when I arrived at the ground and popped in, and it turned out I was only staying about
15 minutes from where the national teams train in Kampala. When I turned up, I bumped into the team,
psychologist, Edgar, who is a massive Stumped fan as well. And they were only too pleased to show me
around the ground. I spoke to members of the men's and women's team, who had been training there that
day. It was in fact, the women's captain Consy Aweko who presented me with this lovely shirt.
So we had photographs together and I learnt that there are four national teams in Uganda.
So men's and women's seniors and under 19s, for both. They have got 20 men and 12 women on
contracts. The women are on around US$150 - US$200 per month, depending on whether they're tier one
or two. Of course, funding is an issue. It's a challenge and yes, we did briefly talk about the
ICC's funding model and how much filters down to those associate and affiliate nations. The ground
was one of four in Uganda. In fact, four turf pitches, although this one in Kampala is very much
multi use and I got there just after a big music event had been played on it. So, the outfield was
perhaps not in its most prime condition, so that is again a bit of a challenge when you have got
multi use stadiums like that and it gets hacked up by all sorts. But also, kit is a challenge. So,
there are no cricket equipment stores anywhere in Uganda. So, you can imagine the challenges
to where do you get your bats from, where do you get your pads from, where do you get your women
specific equipment from? So, the team that the country has had, in the past, a delivery from
Do you remember the charity Bat For A Chance? We had Will Gaffney, who was a schoolboy at the time
who'd founded that charity. They had received a delivery from Bat For A Chance, and then here's
your Australian connection, Brett. I noticed one of the players wearing a New South Wales cap
and I asked about this and it turns out that again through a personal connection, Bankstown Cricket
Club in New South Wales send an annual consignment of kit across to Uganda, which the national teams
make use of. So that is the cricket fraternity coming together, isn't it? I'd love to get one of
the players on Stumped in the next couple of weeks to tell us more about it from their perspective,
but I learnt a lot in my in my short visit and they're very proud of the ground that they call
their Lord's of Uganda in Kampala. So, yeah, it was a really good visit so thank you to them
for making me feel very welcome. We should get on with the show, shouldn't we, the rest of the show.
We're going to start the week by focusing on a player who is often credited as being the fastest
bowler in the women's game. Yes, Shabnim Ismail finished a 16-year career with 317 international
wickets in 241 games across all three formats. She played in four 50-over World Cups and all
eight T20 World Cups, reaching three semi-finals and most memorably, this year's World Cup Final
in her home country of South Africa. Brett, you've been speaking to her.
I have, I've loved watching her play in the WBBL here in Australia as well at times, and she is such a great fast bowler to
watch. I spoke to her and began by asking about why this was the right time for her to retire.
Well basically, it was something I'd been thinking about for the past eight months.
I had been speaking to Cricket South Africa, I'd been speaking to a psychologist and I decided
it's a bit too much cricket playing for South Africa and then travelling to all the other types
of leagues. Also, I'm based in Johannesburg for the past seven years, and my parents are back and
based in Cape Town. So it was a bit difficult obviously keeping family time and seeing them
because I always have to travel whenever I see them. I've always training while I'm there, so
it was getting a bit hectic. Obviously, the stain on my body, so I decided to take a break or retire
from South African cricket. Obviously, I'll still play all the global leagues, but I look forward to
seeing my parents whenever I want, train whenever I need. I was just taking care of my body and tour
playing all of the leagues around the world where people can still see me play and play to the best
of my potential. So, yeah, that was basically the decision. Looking back on the international side
of things, your international career. Do you have a favourite highlight? I would say the World Cup
we just played recently. I think that was the highlight of my career. I think obviously in the
semi-final playing against England, that was huge. We played in front of our home crowd, I played
in front of my family, in front of my friends, fans all around the world tuned in to watch us.
Obviously ending it there where nobody really knew what was going to be the end of my career. I think
that's a memory that's gonna be long lasting in a lot of people's mind and memory.
Did you know then that that was the moment you were going to end your international career with?
Actually before the whole World Cup, I actually took a month break after the WBBL. I took a month break
from cricket and I actually spoke to the director of cricket and I told him I actually think that
was it, I'm not willing to play for South Africa any more. I spoke to him and he said 'let's
give it one more try. Maybe there is that flame burning in you to play for South Africa.' There's
no doubt that I love playing for my country and obviously my country always comes first and that's
always the type of person I am, and the type to say my country comes first and the leagues
come after, whether they pay big money or not. I took the month break, I had a few meetings with
the DOC, with the psychologist helping me through that month when I hadn't played cricket. I wanted
to feel what it feels like not to be a cricketer and I actually enjoyed that month off cricket.
Obviously, spending time with family and friends and I actually enjoyed it and decided this was the
route I wanted to go. After speaking to the DOC, he told me 'Just play this last World Cup for us.' I
played the World Cup and obviously made it to the final and made it through the semi-final. Always
when we came to a semi-final against England, we always lost. Obviously making that history
of getting over the semi-final, that was the highlight of my career getting into the
final. From there, everything took a toll and I told myself and spoke to my family, I spoke to
my close friends, and I told them 'this is actually it. I'm just going to retire. I'm going to do it. '
To be honest, I don't have any regrets as yet. I'm still enjoying my family time and enjoying my
down time and training when I want. So, I've been really enjoying it.
Beyond that World Cup in the semi-final, you mentioned that semi-final that fantastic spell. You had three wickets against
England and that 80mph delivery as well. You've had a lot of wickets across your career,
plenty of them. Can you choose a couple, two or three that stand out in your mind? Yeah,
100 percent. If I go back some time in 2012 or 2013, when it was Sarah Taylor s 100th game that
she actually played, and I got her out. I think it was the second ball yorker and it clipped middle
stump and she was really shocked. I think that was one of the highlights, but I also think I
got a three or four five-wicket hauls stands out to me. I think for me, it's not only about myself,
it's more for the team environment. As long as the team is doing well, I know that I'll be doing
well as well. That's always nice about the past World Cup that we just played was basically the
highlight for me, whether I took no wickets or three wickets I think that was the highlight for me.
You are renowned for your pace, there's no doubt about that. And you've clocked 80mph, which
I know was an ambition of yours. That happened recently at the World Cup at home. How did you
generate such pace, especially I think about you being not the most I guess physically imposing
figure as we tend to imagine fast bowlers are with their hight. I wish I could tell you. Honestly,
I do everything fast. I drive fast, I eat fast, I sleep fast, everything happens quickly. Basically,
it was just a dream of mine to become one of the quickest bowlers in the world and are always try
to portray that in practice as well as in game situations, but I don't think about it when I'm
out there and it just pumps me. I run and I bowl as fast as I can, but those same things When I was
younger, I was bowling how I wanted to bowl quick, but now it's about more consistency with my bowling.
Obviously trying to get more consistent as my career went on. So, in the past five years,
I think I've been really enjoying myself and going out there as quick as I can and getting wickets.
I'm keen to know, what do you hope your legacy will be as you take your final bow from international cricket?
Legacy for me is not always like it being about myself. For me, it's about the
youngsters looking up to me as a professional athlete, not only in my cricket career but also
in the humanity part of cricket. First of all, we are human beings before we're cricketers. As
long as I know I am a human being, I am leaving a good legacy in the female environments of cricket.
I would love for the youngsters to look up to me and say, 'I want to be a Shabnim Ismail one day.'
That is the legacy I want to leave. It is a time of great transition for South African cricket at
the moment. Lizelle Lee, Dane Van Niekerk, Mignon Du Preez, all long-time international team-mates
of yours having retired around at the same time from international cricket. Where do you think
South African cricket is that at the moment? It is a bit difficult. There are lots of youngsters
that are coming through the system, but I still think they still have a good foundation where they
can bring young female cricketers up to play for South Africa. If you speak about CSA and where
they're at at the moment, I know it is a difficult period for them at the moment, but I still feel
they also still have a good bunch of players who they can still nurture and make sure that when
it comes to the next three years, that they can probably win the World Cup.
Shabmin, from all of us, congratulations on your international career. It's been one you should be extremely proud of,
and we appreciate your time having a chat to us on Stumped. Thank you so much, I appreciate it.
So that was Shabnim Ismail speaking to Brett Sprigg, and she's always got plenty to say on
the game. We wish her well in her retirement. Well next on Stumped, we are nearing the end of
the 16th edition of the Indian Premier League. The 2023 season has seen a stack of records be broken;
We've had the most sixes and the most centuries in a single season, the most runs by an uncapped
batter in a season and the most totals of 200+. We already know that MS Dhoni's Chennai Super
Kings are through to what is their 10th final in 14 seasons, after beating defending champions,
Gujarat Titans. The Titans will still have a crack at getting to the final. They will play Mumbai
Indians in the Eliminator on Friday. Charu, what of CSK then, they've won the title four times. So how have
you rated them over the course of the competition this year? It's a little strange
that they've made it so quickly through to the final, because they had a sort of up and down,
choppy season to begin with. A lot of them were a lot of the fans were happy to write them off
in terms of the title, but haven't they come back magnificently. Dhoni himself being their talisman
of course hasn't done too much individually, but every time he walks on to the field, a million
fans add on because that's his charm and that's what he brings to the game. He hasn't done
much individually, but everyone now is, of course, applauding his captaincy because they all mention
that maybe there is an x-factor there because of how he has held on to the team. The team has
largely gone unchanged and all sorts of facts and figures about how Chennai Super Kings have
had the least team changes. I think they've had the same team for like seven matches or whatever,
despite the fact that many of the players were not doing too well. But you know who knows what this
x-factor is, because they certainly I must say did not look like the strongest team. Of course,
against Gujarat Titans in that first qualifier, they played really well. They were on home turf
though. And I think it's a known fact that many teams are, but certainly CSK are very strong.
Chepauk is like a fort, a fortress and they surprised me, frankly. They've somehow looked a
little vulnerable all the way through and then here we are, the first team to make the final.
Who knows, they might even win and equal in terms of the number of wins. But it's been a surprising
season. I didn't think they were good enough for the top, but here we are. Who knows about
T20 cricket, right. Dhoni's captaincy, Brett. He will always be asked how long are you carrying on
for? Are you gonna stay as captain? He seems very unwilling at the moment to say either way,
which is his prerogative, isn't it? You speak about the value of great leaders and the fact
that you have a guy who people just walk a little taller behind, even if they are not the one always
leading with bat or ball. They've just got this certain presence about them. MS has had that for
so long in India, at international level and now at franchise level and that I suppose speaks to
his quality Charu, is all I would say about that. Yeah, because you know, captaincy is a strange
thing in T20 cricket, because the match goes by so quickly and all the best laid plans often trashed
because of what goes on in the field. So, I just think there's a certain calmness, which
has been storied, of course. And perhaps a sunny personality that doesn't quite consider himself
to be above anybody else. He is very much one of the lads and of course, his age now and everything
that is proved so far. Obviously, there's an enormous respect that is automatically are granted
to Dhoni, so he doesn't have to boss it over anyone. I must also put a little tick mark for
the franchise itself, because it's run by Mr Srinivasan who of course, he was the chief of
Indian cricket for very long. He's been running cricket in Chennai and other parts of India for
over 50 years. So, there's a certain calm in that franchise where they don't really... I'm not
saying care, because that's the wrong word, but they're not overly concerned about victories and
losses and maybe that attitude passes on to the players as well. They somehow keep the pressure,
the excess pressure away from performance, because often as we know when the stakes are very high,
those who can't handle pressure very well it's a strange word in the world of sport, right.
Chennai seem to be the calmest team and strangely that leads to winning, regardless of whether they
have the best team on the best combination or not. You rarely see Dhoni remonstrate with players on
the field. He would just say to them all 'you need to watch me', because he will tinker every ball.
He might make a field change. He just need his players, he says, to watch him at all times.
If they put a catch down, that sort of thing happens. So that's the calmness he brings with it.
I must say, if you notice carefully he does sort of purse his lips and you can make out when he was upset,
but he tries very hard not to show it. Now, what about Shubman Gill, because the Gujarat Titans
opener has clocked up 700 runs in this year's competition. He's had a remarkable year, hasn't he
in 2023. The youngest double centurion in one-day internationals and India's highest centurion in
T20 internationals. His star is rising and rising Charu, isn' t it? He is just magnificent to watch.
Whether he gets those 700 runs or only seven, every run is like a peach. Just the way he scores,
his balance on the crease and particularly a rock solid head. It's just a pleasure to watch
and of course, when he does get big runs, you feel it's natural because he's just so contained and
controlled and yet he scores pretty quickly. That strike rate is almost to 200, or in the 170s or
so. Yeah, I mean, I'm so glad for him because he is a wonderful young man. Yes, clearly the biggest
thing to come out of this IPL, not that he wasn't playing for India before that. But as his young
career has been so far a little checkered. But after this IPL, I think he would gather not
only himself, but his fans a lot of belief and I say once again such a joy to watch because most
of what he plays are typically classic shots. He's not a big slogger. I can go on about him
but I'm so glad for him because he is a nice man who, as a nice steady head on his shoulders.
That is all we've got time for on this week's Stumped. I'll say thank you to Brett Sprigg and Charu
Sharma and of course to all of you and we'll see you again next week. Until then, bye bye.