(upbeat music)
- Welcome, my friends, to the Bob and Brad podcast,
produced by Bob and Brad,
the two most famous physical therapists on the internet.
I am exactly one half of the Bob and Brad team.
I'm Bob.
And I am joined today by Jordan
who is a nutrition coach and a fitness instructor.
And I'm joined on my right here by Mike.
He's actually part of the Bob and Brad crew.
They got their own channel,
which they do review of Bob and Brad products
and other products, fitness products.
The title of our program today is why I went back
on the keto diet, which is Mike, why he went back on it.
We were hoping to give you some advice on
for a beginner's guide.
And then we have some expert advice here too,
because of Jordan.
- Your elbows are shaking the camera.
- Oh, sorry.
Jordan has worked with people
who have been on the keto diets.
And with her vast knowledge,
so, Jordan, why don't we start with you?
Just give your background a little bit.
- Sure, yeah, absolutely.
So, started out kind of my whole, I guess,
professional career in the fitness industry.
Soon decided I wanted to get a little bit more honed in
on nutrition, 'cause I found that to be...
Well, that's where my passions lie.
So, anyways, I went on to get my master's
in human nutrition.
I'd like to clarify right from the get-go
I decided to go the non-dietetics route,
so I am not a registered dietician.
So the difference between me and a dietician is
like I'm not clinical.
I can't work at a clinical setting.
I can't do diagnostic work, anything like that,
but I did go through a master's program,
and I've worked in the fitness and nutrition field
for about 10 years now.
And, I guess,
so that's kind of my educational, professional background,
but relating into the keto diet,
I'll just say right from the get-go.
I've actually never gone on the keto diet.
I tend to follow a very low carbohydrate diet
just due to the whole foods nature that I follow.
So, I'm not pumping my body with lots of carbs,
but I've never gone in full blown ketosis before.
But I have worked with a lot of clientele
over the years that have gone on the keto diet,
have had a lot of success with it.
So I do not have personal opinion experience,
but at least the background with working
with a lot of different populations doing it.
- That's awesome.
So, Mike, why don't you give your background.
I mean, Mike's a physical therapist assistant.
- Yep, so I have no training from school
on diet or nutrition.
I've just been curious about it through my 20s.
Now I'm in my 30s, and I've just read a lot,
tried lots of different diet approaches.
I was just like very overweight kid
until high school.
And then I've always read more about nutrition,
eventually found keto diet like six years ago,
and thought it was absolutely weird.
(all laugh)
And I started it basically based off curiosity.
- Awesome.
And I have never been on a keto diet,
but I'm like Jordan in that I went to a diet,
not a diet per se, I just started eating way less carbs
and certainly way less processed sugar foods.
I mean, without trying, I lost 20 pounds,
and it was mostly around the middle.
I mean, it was really quite amazing
to be honest with you about it.
But why don't we start off with one of you wanna talk about
what the keto diet is?
- Do you wanna go, or do you want me to do it?
- Sure, I can, I mean, give a very...
I'm into like simple things,
but it's a very, very low to no carbohydrate diet.
I don't know about you, Mike,
but I don't like define it as no carbohydrates,
but incredibly, incredibly reduced carbohydrate diet,
high fat-
- That's technically what it is.
I mean, there are like a few niche categories
of like zero carb,
but that's a whole different animal.
- 'Cause the standard, isn't it five percent carbs?
- Five to 10.
And the amount of carbs are gonna vary upon the individual.
So someone that is more like obese, diabetic,
more insulin sensitive is gonna have way less carbs.
So through a lot of like the research studies,
they'll stick them on a total of like 20 grams a day.
Where me, who was younger and active,
like I know I can eat 50 grams a day of carbs total,
and I still stay in ketosis just fine.
- Yeah, I think metabolism, excuse me,
has a ton to do with...
It's just not a hard, concrete number.
- It typically ranges.
So like the range would be
anywhere from 80% fat down to 65% fat.
Typically they say 75% fat, 20% protein
and five percent carbs is like the standard recommendation,
but they can all vary slightly.
- So there's like a version with athletes
where they tend to increase their carbs around workouts.
Isn't that-
- Yeah, there's different approaches to it.
So there's cyclical keto,
which is more like a bodybuilding niche type thing
where they'll have carbs once a week
or once every other week to get some muscle glycogen,
so they can train harder.
There's also an approach called targeted keto
where they'll just consume like 30 grams of carbs
right before their workout.
So basically they digest the carbs, utilize it for energy,
and after the workout within an hour,
they're like right back in ketosis.
And then there's a standard keto diet
is just you're always in ketosis.
- And we should say this,
the studies that were done on the keto diet
were basically done on the standard one
and also, I think, maybe a little bit
on the high-protein one,
but the other ones had not been studied.
We can't really speak
to the benefits of those. - If you have medical issues,
the standard is the recommended one
that's being studied a lot.
- So, what are ketones and what is ketosis?
- So ketosis is basically a
thing your body goes into when-
- It's a metabolic state.
- Yeah, it's a metabolic state your body goes into
when you do not have glucose and carbs
as your main energy source.
So, you can get in this way
if you're just fasting in general,
or like, say, you're stuck on an island
and you have no food and all you have is water,
you're gonna get in ketosis.
What ketosis does is it produces ketone bodies in your body.
Your body produces ketone bodies.
- Which are a chemical.
- Yeah, it's typically from your liver.
They'll start creating them.
They will start breaking down your stored fat for energy.
That's what it is
- Instead of carbs.
So they start using fat for fuel.
- Yep, so nutritional ketosis,
you can get into ketosis eating food still.
You don't have to starve yourself,
but basically to do this, you have to keep your carbs low.
- Now we should say right here, too,
this is not keto acidosis.
That's something that diabetics...
Correct, Jordan?
- Correct, yes.
- And that's dangerous.
Ketosis is not dangerous.
- No.
- All right, what are some of the benefits of the keto diet?
Jordan, do you wanna name some?
- Sure, yeah.
So big thing in terms of like the population
that I work with, I would say
like when I did nutrition coaching full time,
I was working more with general population,
which, let's just be blunt and honest,
the general population isn't overly healthy
in the United States.
So I was working with a lot of weight loss clients.
So, big thing that drills people towards the keto diet
is weight loss.
Why?
Because it works.
It works, just as Mike explained,
when your body is burning fat for fuel.
So we have excess fats.
There we go.
So weight loss is a big thing.
I like to talk a lot about it in terms of brain power.
So when your body is not reliant on carbohydrates,
it's just burning ketones is just a cleaner burning process
in the body.
I guess that's the best way I have to describe it.
And your brain really likes that.
Your brain loves ketones and being fueled off that.
So, really good benefits just in terms of
I'll just say brain health in general.
There's a fancy term called neuroplasticity,
but I don't know how much we want to get into that.
And also just our brain's ability to heal
and make new connections and all of that.
So I always think when I think keto diet,
I think like brain health and weight loss.
I don't know, those are kind of the ones
off the top of my head.
- Until I did a little research on this,
I didn't realize that that was one of the benefits
is that it supplies energy for your brain
better than the other ones.
It gets through the brain barrier there.
- So like personally for me,
what I would notice from a ketogenic diet is
when I ate more carbs,
even if it was like 200 grams a day or something,
I would have constant energy sways up and down
like I'd have real good energy a couple hours.
I'd feel satiated and fine for a couple, two or three hours.
And then I'd start to get hungry.
And like when I was eating this way,
I was still having a good amount of protein.
It's not like I was eating...
I'd say when I was calculating,
it was like 35% of my calories are from carbs.
I'd still get these insulin sways.
And it would be harder for me to focus on things.
I would almost have like...
Psychiatrists are even starting looking at ketogenic diet
and the way it affects your brain,
'cause people with ADD have claims like,
"I can focus better now."
They're also looking at it with like hard drug addicts
and rerouting their brain and the way they think.
There's psychiatrists doing that now
is another good benefit.
Also, there's been a lot of research
on heart health with it.
They've actually like had external heart models
running off ketones.
And actually they say the heart prefers
to run off ketones.
And your body actually produces ketones
even if you're not in a ketogenic state.
It's just it's a pretty low amount.
- Sure.
Getting back to that brain thing,
they think it may slow the progression
of Alzheimer's disease.
- Yeah, I mean, some of these neurologists
like Dr. Perlmutter, I know,
they are calling it type three diabetic or diabetes,
because your brain basically can't use glucose
for energy anymore.
- Interesting.
- I think it's Dr. Perlmutter that wrote "Brain Maker."
- He's written a bunch.
I know "Grain Brain" is one.
- One specifically on a more like ketogenic style diet
in like Alzheimer's.
I think it's called "Brain Maker," but anyways.
- Yeah, he's written a lot that I know.
- I also saw where it maybe would help
with traumatic brain injuries outcomes.
Like you said, it's a brain thing more than I realized.
- This is one of the few diets
that is categorized under fad now,
because it became popular basically through marketing
of food industries.
That's how it became fad,
but it's one of the diets that is really being researched
a bunch within like the last 20 years.
Like, there's been so many different universities
and research groups that are looking at different aspects
of this eating and like the benefits it can have.
- We'd be remiss here if we didn't talk a little bit
about the possible downsides, precautions, side effects.
So first since you were on it, Mike,
why don't you talk about, is it brain fog or whatever?
- Yeah.
So adapting to the ketogenic diet is not
always the easiest thing for some people.
You go through basically carb withdrawals, (chuckles)
essentially is what it is.
A couple of days in, for me, I feel fine yet
when I start running off fats and ketones.
I still have muscle glycogen I'm burning through.
So your body has 2,000 calories worth of muscle glycogen
you have to burn through before you start creating ketones.
So what typically happens is once you kind of burn through
these muscle glycogen stores,
you actually start excreting a lot of water through urine.
And along with this muscle glycogen and water stores,
you're losing a bunch of electrolytes.
So if you're not replenishing them
and being conscious of it,
you're gonna get really low levels of sodium potassium,
which typically leads to
a lot of these keto flu symptoms basically.
So that can be things like headache,
trouble concentrating, just very tired.
It can lead to heart palpitations.
There's a large amount of side effects and people here,
"I thought it was supposed to feel good on this diet,"
and there's three days into it,
and they're feeling miserable.
And it's this adaptation phase
you kind of have to get through.
And once you're through it, it feels good.
But, yeah, that's kind of the biggest side effect early on
I would say. - Jordan,
what has your experience been
with the clients you've worked with?
- Yeah, so one thing that I always like to mention
when I hear keto diet is people can do the keto diet,
but have such a poor, poor diet still.
So, I always use this example.
Could you go in ketosis eating hot dogs and cheese,
Kraft singles like processed nasty cheese?
Can you go into ketosis doing that?
100%, absolutely your body could.
Could you lose weight?
Yeah, you could, but are you healthy?
Are you meeting your nutrient needs?
No.
So that's from a nutritional standpoint.
That's where my biggest hang up is with people is educating.
Like you can still eat vegetables.
Like I don't know what it is in the keto community
where it became where all of a sudden
all vegetables are off limits,
and all we're eating is dairy, high-fat dairy products.
I don't know where that came from.
My biggest, I guess, where I get kind of like riled up
about it is when people do it incorrectly
and just eat a bunch of, for lack of a better word,
just crap food and use it as an excuse
to eat all that stuff,
or like the marketed keto products out there
that are like keto chips.
What are those?
It can be really healthy if we do it in a whole foods way,
but there's a lot of like miscommunication and miseducation
and like that side of things.
And then I just kinda like to touch on, too,
like why I haven't done it,
'cause that might be a question like, okay, I know about it.
I know all these benefits.
Well, why, I'm the nutrition world,
why the heck I haven't had done it?
My personal like viewpoint, too,
and I think this speaks more to like females,
'cause we just think more, guys, (chuckles)
- Wrong.
- That's right.
But anything that you can just become like obsessive over
that makes me like a little nervous
with like the female clientele.
I think it's great, but like myself,
I sit and I live and breathe fitness and nutrition,
so I try to have a little healthy balance with food
and not counting things.
That's my own personal thing.
- I don't like to count things either, to be honest.
- If you're a person who has a diet history
like the up, down, up, down, and you get all in at one time
and you have a hard time with counting things
if you just get consumed,
I think that that can be bad
for the mental health side of things.
So, I don't like to go without mentioning that.
Although, I'm all for the keto diet.
I just think anything where we become obsessive
and that's all we can think about,
that's not healthy either.
So anyways, that's my rant. (laughs)
- So basically monitoring the macros, right, Mike?
Do you wanna tell them what macros are?
- Yeah, so your macros are your
fats, proteins, carbohydrates.
In the keto diet, you don't necessarily
have to monitor super strictly if you don't like to,
but you just kind of wanna be aware
of your total overall carb intake, essentially.
Depending upon how good or bad you feel
is gonna vary, depending upon maybe you're not getting
enough fats, maybe you're missing out
on some of these vitamins and minerals.
I noticed like when I started keto,
what you were describing earlier, they term dirty keto
is it's terminology.
Yeah, that's like the really processed food stuff.
From my background, like before this,
I was eating chicken, rice, oatmeal, eggs.
Like I wasn't eating American diet,
but I was still running off carbs.
So, I kinda knew, I'm gonna feel better eating
more whole foods stuff
and having like maybe a keto treat periodically,
but not making it a staple in my diet.
And so, these people that are going
from standard American to keto,
it's like they're basically still eating their foods,
but they're removing the carb sources from it.
- Still really unhealthy.
- Yeah, And what it does is like some people,
it benefits them to start it.
And then once they get into the adaptation,
then is the time to
let's start getting some better food supplies in there
and still be in ketosis.
- I'm sure that was Jordan's challenge.
- You know who Dr. Eric Westman is?
- Actually, I don't.
- He's the associate professor of nutrition at Duke,
and he's been running like a ketogenetic clinic
for like 13 years.
Been eating keto for 20 years,
but Duke is in an area of the South
that people have low income,
and they don't know a lot of knowledge.
So he's like, "The best thing I found for them is
"I give them a sheet of paper
"of all the keto friendly foods.
"And I tell them pick what they want to start."
And he says, "Do it for 30 days.
"Pick what you want, what you like.
"I'm not gonna tell you what to do."
And then once they get adapted,
yeah, he'll start trying to eat better things,
but he's he's so fascinating, 'cause he goes,
"You know, I have these people
"that are eating these dirty keto foods,"
and he's like, "I look at their blood work,
"and it's so weird, because I can't tell
"if they're eating it."
- Oh really?
- Just having the lack of the insulin
and the processed food and sugar,
they're still getting better.
He says, "If you can clean it up, eat cleaner."
- But that's one of the concern too
is that the long-term effects
of eating some of the bad, dirty keto
would not be apparent right away.
- Yeah, I mean, unless you're constantly getting monitored,
your blood work.
- And your cancer risk.
I mean, that's hard to know
unless you've had long-term studies.
I'm afraid we're gonna have to probably cut off today.
We're gonna have to continue this on another day
without a doubt,
because there's a lot more we can discuss,
and we'll do that.
Monitor our channel and our podcast,
and look for the future information on keto again.
So, thanks. Jordan.
Thanks, Mike.
We'll see you again.
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