Judy: The high-profile
congressional investigation over
the January 6th attack on the
capitol and how to address gun
violence in America are two of
the issues taking center stage
in this mid-term election year.
To discuss the political stakes,
I'm joined by Amy Walter of the
cook political report with Amy
Walter.
And Tamara Keith of NPR.
Hello to both of you.
Welcome to the program on this
Monday.
Let's pick up with the story we
have just been hearing from
William and Lisa's reporting on
this framework for a deal.
Tam, you have been watching this
as it has unfolded the last few
weeks.
Does this look like it has a
chance to become law, passed the
senate, and then be agreed on
and signed by the president?
Tamara: There is a magical
number and that number is 10
Republicans, and there are 10
Republicans signed on to this.
It has a much better chance than
anything that has been discussed
over the last several years.
What is interesting is who those
Republicans are.
They are Republicans who are not
up until 2026.
They are several who are
retiring.
And then there is Mitt Romney
who has nothing to lose and has
proven his Independence in a
number of ways on a number of
matters.
This does not go nearly as far
as president Biden has been
calling for, as he did in his
primetime address, as Democrats
have wanted.
But it goes further than
Democrats had feared they might
have to accept.
The rush from president Biden,
speaker Pelosi, to come out and
say right away, great, we will
take that, it's something, it's
a step!
It indicates that there is
motivation.
Of course, they are now working
out the fine details of what is
in the legislative language.
They are hurrying to do that.
But the fine details can get
into trouble, also the NRA and
others can rally while those
details are being worked out.
Judy: And the more days we get
away from the shooting, the less
this pressure is felt.
Amy: I think there are a couple
of ways to look at this.
There can be the cynical way or
not cynical way.
I don't know where you want me
to start.
The not cynical way is, guess
what?
They're actually is a centerleft
in the United States congress.
It does not look like it very
often, it looks like the two
sides will never come together,
even on the most obvious,
tremendous problems.
But here we find 10 Republicans
willing to go along with
Democrats on legislation that,
tam is right, nobody will be
totally happy with this, but it
is significant, in the same way
we saw a center for the
infrastructure built.
Things can get done in congress.
The cynical side goes to what
tam brought up as well.
Everybody who is part of this
center, not everybody, but there
-- but who is not up for
reelection, or they are not
coming back in 2023.
Judy: You need 10 votes.
Amy: You do.
Judy: All Democrats on board, 10
Republicans.
You have it done.
If that holds, this could
actually happen.
Amy: This gets to the
president's desk.
Tamara: This is the math we talk
about every week.
This mathworks as long as it
doesn't fall apart.
Judy: Big, big if.
Let's talk about the other big
thing we have been watching over
the last few days.
Certainly the two of you
seasoned Washington observers
have washed -- watched these
hearings.
Tam, what are you taking away
from this?
The committee is presenting an
organized story, narrative, what
are you taking away from it?
Tamara: A lot of this is not new
to those of us who have been
following it closely.
But those people have not been
following it very closely.
A lot of this reflects reporting
that I did in those months
between the election and January
6, and immediately following it.
But my sources were unnamed
sources.
They were people who would not
go on the record.
And now you have people on the
record, in depositions, on
video, saying these things that
they were saying behind closed
doors.
Like the campaign manager
talking about being part of the
normal -- team normal versus
team Rudy.
All of that stuff that was being
discussed on background and
unwilling to say it publicly.
Now, with a subpoena, they have
said it publicly.
Judy: Not to mention the former
attorney general of the united
States, who has been very blunt.
Amy: That's right.
And I think Ben Ginsberg laid
this out earlier in the show,
which is that these are not
Democrats coming and sitting in
front of the committee and
saying, Donald Trump was
misleading people willingly, or
he was told these things and he
refused to believe them.
Or we laid out scenario after
scenario which he refused to
abide by.
This is his attorney general,
these are the people closest to
him, in his orbit, his campaign
manager.
They were telling him this all
along and they knew that this
was an issue all along.
What we also know is there were
many people, as tam points out,
who knew all along, who were in
congress, or who are Republican
operatives, that this also was
not true.
And they were willing to
continue to go along with it,
because it was more dangerous
for them, and still more
dangerous for them to speak out
against the president, and call
out what is true, then it is to
be quiet and hold on to your
seat in congress.
Judy: I'm going to ask you the
same question I was asking Ben
Ginsberg and symphony -- and
Cynthia miller-idriss, which is,
how long do they continue to say
what is not true was true?
How long does that last?
Amy: I think the concern here is
whether this committee proves
that Donald Trump should have
ever returned to the oval office
or not, or whatever the
committee aims to prove, the
former president made it ok to
not concede.
The former president has created
a norm where you can be a
candidate who denies reality to
the bitter end, and will have
people follow along and believe
you and produce documentaries --
documentaries", to prove that it
is right.
Our system relies on people
accepting the results of the
elections.
And now, there is a norm that is
being established by the former
president and his acolytes who
are running for office right
now, that it is ok to just not
like the result and refused to
act it.
Judy: And is that a norm that is
going to survive?
Tamara: It works until it
doesn't.
That is really the answer,
mostly in politics.
Politicians are looking at what
is working at this moment.
And right now at this moment,
there is no repercussion to
saying, the selection was
irregular, was stolen, there are
integrity issues, whatever it
is.
There is no penalty for saying
that.
Especially since most of the
people running for election are
running in districts that are
overwhelmingly Republican.
What we will find out is whether
the people can go and make these
claims and still win elections.
We will have very good
opportunities to see whether
this works or not, when it is
not Donald Trump making these
claims, but when it is others
who are parroting his claims and
saying they will do similar
things.
The gubernatorial candidate in
Arizona, a gubernatorial
candidate in Pennsylvania.
It will work until it doesn't
work.
Judy: And we will see whether
the committee is able to call
into question enough of what
former president trump has said
to in any way diminish the
credibility that he has with his
Tamara: And that first night at
least, 20 million people
watched.
I don't know what share were
persuaded.
Amy: When we are talking about
2024, how people feel about
Donald Trump, when we get all of
these hearings distilled into
campaign ad after campaign ad
after campaign add that go over
and over again.
That also could be a very
different response than even
what we are seeing today from
voters.
Judy: We will be watching.
The two of you will be watching.
Thank you both.