- I want to introduce you to someone
who is gazelle intense, paying off credit card debt.
So I can't wait for you to hear their story.
(light music)
- I felt hopeless, disappointed in myself.
- I felt trapped like a rat in the wheel.
I knew that we needed to do something,
but I had no idea where to start.
- We had about $40,000 in credit card debt.
We just thought credit card debt was something
we were going to have our whole lives.
At first, we each had a credit card,
and a lot of it was we didn't have a lot of money,
so we used that as income.
That was to pay for groceries,
and anybody that would give us some credit
to buy some stuff that we needed, we had it.
It just seemed like something that was normal,
that everyone did, so we just kind of followed along.
- So one day I listened
to The Dave Ramsey Show for the first time,
and his message clicked with me immediately,
and I came home.
Russell and I had a difficult conversation.
We ordered the book and read it,
and we were able to work through some things,
and then it was off from there.
And when we discovered this program
and realized how stupid we had been,
and then we got on track, it was rough on the kids.
It was rough on both of them, especially our son
because he was a freshman in college,
and he wanted to do fun college things,
and we had to tell him no.
- Same thing with our daughter.
We would always go out to eat on the weekends,
and that was just something that she looked forward to,
and we had to say, "No, we're cooking again at the house."
Going through this and our children seeing
what we went through, I feel like they will have learned
and not get into the situation that we did.
- Before, we didn't live on a budget,
and if we wanted to spend something, we spent it.
If we wanted to go out to eat, we went out to eat.
And now that we live on a budget
and everything is intentional, we have so much more freedom.
- [Both] We're debt-free!
(applause)
- Thanks, guys, so much for being here
and coming on the show.
- Thank you for having us.
- Yeah, absolutely.
And you guys are here in Nashville
because you guys just did your debt-free scream.
- That's right. - Yes.
- Yeah, okay, so how much debt total was paid off?
- 84,000.
- $84,000.
How long did it take you guys?
- 22 months.
- 22 months, right at two years.
$84,000.
Okay, and how much of that was credit card debt?
- 40,000.
- $40,000. - [Mary] Yes.
Almost half of it.
- Okay, so I'm like so curious.
So how many credit cards did you have
that totaled $40,000 of debt?
- All right, so we had a Visa and a Mastercard
that had most of it on there,
but we also had five or six cards from different stores
that had $1,000 here, $1,000 here.
- Totally, yes.
So when you have $40,000 of credit card debt specifically,
a lot of people get credit cards because they think,
"Okay, well my necessities. I have to have a credit card
to survive and to pay the bills."
Some people use it and they just overspend.
They live way beyond their means.
So what kind of boat would you guys be in?
Both of those?
- Both. - What did you put
on the credit cards?
- Initially when we started out, we were very young.
We had our son young, and we needed it for necessities.
We needed it for groceries just to survive.
And I think you stated it was our extra income
if you will. - Yes, yes.
- And then once we got to a point
where we didn't need them anymore,
we had had them for so long that that was an option
to get whatever we wanted quickly without planning for it.
- Totally, yeah, which is so normal, right?
- [Mary] Right.
- That's how so many people live.
So when you bought things like a new mattress
or furniture and all of that,
did you know going into those purchases,
"We're not going to be able to pay these off
at the end of the month?"
Because some people say, "Well, I have a credit card.
I'll just pay it off at the end of the month."
Did you have that mindset, or did you think,
"Okay we're buying things we clearly are not going
to be able to pay off, but we're okay with that?"
- We were okay with it. - Yeah.
- We were fine with, "Oh we'll take two years to pay it off
or three years to pay it off."
- Yes, totally.
So you lived in this cycle with credit cards
for how long would you say?
- Our entire marriage up to that point.
So we'll be married 20 years next month.
- Okay.
- So, 17 years.
- Yes, okay, so 17 years of kind of this habit
of this being a part of your life.
What was the moment you said, "I'm done.
I'm so tired of seeing these credit card bills.
I'm so tired of being in debt.
I've had it."
What was that moment for you guys?
- Yeah, it was right before Christmas in 2016
that we had the difficult conversation.
We got it all out there on the table.
It was a very difficult conversation.
- I mean that's scary, you guys.
- It was scary.
- Yeah, for a lot of people they're just
like ignorance is bliss in a sense,
and they just know they have all this stuff,
but pulling it out and actually looking
at the numbers, it's really, really scary.
So how did that go?
You said it was tough.
Talk to me about that.
- It was (laughs).
- Were there tears? - Oh, yeah.
- Was there yelling? I mean all of it!
- There was tears. There was yelling.
It was probably the most epic fight I think
we've had in our marriage.
- [Rachel] Wow.
- And money can destroy a marriage.
I think ours was perhaps on that path,
so I think this really saved our marriage.
- Wow, yeah. Well Russell I think this is a great point
because especially with couples,
when you're not communicating about money,
naturally, one person kind of just takes
on the responsibility of the money
and the other one doesn't.
And so the person that's responsible,
it's a very lonely place because it's like
you're the one. All the responsibility is on you.
It feels heavy. It feels like this burden
because you're like, I'm the only one that knows this.
And so, did you find that it was this lonely place,
and you felt that burden lift when you shared this with her?
- Oh, definitely.
Yes, it was a weight off my shoulders and my chest
when we finally knew exactly where we were.
- So good.
So what would you say to someone who's hearing the story,
because there's a lot of people watching this
hearing, "Wow, they got out of all their debt,
including all this credit card debt,
and they're not living with credit cards."
But they are sitting there thinking
that you have to have a credit card.
Like it's 2019, you still have to have a credit card.
What would you say to them?
- (laughs) No, you absolutely do not have
to have a credit card.
A credit card is this chain around your neck
that prevents you from using your income
for the joy of life, for generosity to others.
It's just not something you should do to yourself.
- So those out there watching that are in the middle
of their debt-free journey, they're paying of debt,
because there's a lot of people watching
on Baby Step Two, the majority of people are.
What would you say to help them stay motivated?
That you're like, okay we know it's hard.
It can be a long process,
but what could they do to stay motivated?
- I would say my biggest motivation was that goal.
That picture in my head of where I wanted to . . .
How I was going to celebrate getting through that.
- Yes, that's so good.
What about you, Russell?
- Yeah, I mean the same thing.
Just knowing that when we were done, we were going
to have that freedom and how good it was going to feel.
And you know, when we got to Step Three,
when we start building our emergency fund,
just seeing some extra money go in the bank,
and it's sitting there and you can look at it,
that's a nice feeling too.
- Oh, so good. It totally is, yes.
Give me an adjective of beforehand, like how you felt,
until sitting on this couch right now
being completely debt-free
with money saved now in the bank with emergency fund.
What would you say?
- I feel like a completely different person.
I can't imagine going back to the way we were living before.
That would be waking up in a nightmare.
The freedom we have now, living on a budget,
knowing that when we do something,
when we spend money, it's intentional, it's so freeing.
- So freeing.
And I love that because it's the tried and true picture
of the idea that being in control gives you that freedom.
And people think, "Well living my life with credit cards
and doing whatever I want whenever I want it."
That doesn't end up in freedom.
It ends up in stress and bondage that you guys experienced,
and so I think that was so well said.
Well thank you guys so much for being on.
I really appreciate you sharing your story.
- Thank you. - Thank you.