>>A FORMER ASSISTANT PRODUCER WHO WORKED AT NBC AND HAD WHAT
SHE DEFINED AS A SOMEWHAT CONSENSUAL SEXUAL AFFAIR WITH
MATT LAUER IS NOW SHARING HER STORY, AND WHILE SHE SAYS THAT
HER ENCOUNTER WITH HIM WAS NOT UNLAWFUL AND NOT CRIMINAL, SHE
FEELS THAT THERE WAS A CERTAIN LEVEL OF MANIPULATION THAT WENT
ON AND SHE WANTS TO SHARE HER STORY.
AT THE TIME SHE WAS
WORKING AT NBC AND CLOSE TO MATT LAUER SHE WAS 24, SHE WAS AN
ASSISTANT PRODUCER HOPING ONE DAY SHE COULD BE A SUCCESSFUL
ANCHOR LIKE KATIE COURIC, AND AT SOME POINT AFTER WORKING ON THE
TODAY SHOW SHE DECIDED THAT IN ORDER TO GET TO THAT POSITION AS
AN ANCHOR SHE WOULD NEED TO GO TO A SMALLER MARKET, WORK AS AN
ANCHOR THERE, GET SOME EXPERIENCE AND HOPEFULLY WORK
HER WAY UP TO A SHOW LIKE THE TODAY SHOW.
SO SHE MADE IT KNOWN
AFTER TWO YEARS AT TODAY THAT SHE WAS GOING TO LEAVE TO GO TO
WEST VIRGINIA AND ANCHOR AT A LOCAL NEWS STATION THERE.
SHE
SAYS THAT AS SOON AS MATT LAUER REALIZED SHE WOULD BE LEAVING,
HE STARTED COMING ON TO HER RATHER AGGRESSIVELY, AND SHE HAD
THE MESSAGES SAVED TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE.
THESE ARE ALL MESSAGES
FROM 2000.
AND ONE OF THEM HE SENT HER, HE SAID THE FOLLOWING --
>>THAT WAS THE FIRST MESSAGE HE SENT WHERE HE IS CLEARLY
HITTING ON HER.
SHE SAYS --
>>AND SHE REALLY WANTED HIM TO MENTOR HER, SHE WANTED TO
SUCCEED IN A MEDIA CAREER, AND APPARENTLY AFTER THAT SHE DIDN'T
HEAR FROM HIM MUCH, BUT THEN A MONTH LATER THE MESSAGES BEGAN
AGAIN --
>>BY THE WAY, THEY DIDN'T DO STUFF THEN, SHE SAID NO AND
HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING.
>>LATER ON THE RELATIONSHIP BECAME SEXUAL.
AT THAT POINT
THEY HAD I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY, SHE DOESN'T DETAIL ALL OF THEM,
THEY HAD SEXUAL ENCOUNTERS, THE LAST ONE WAS AT THE DEMOCRATIC
CONVENTION IN ONE OF THE BATHROOMS IN 2000 AND THAT WAS
THE LAST TIME, THEN SHE MOVED ON TO ANCHOR IN WEST VIRGINIA.
BUT
SHE SAID THAT SHE FELT SICK TO HER STOMACH ABOUT EVERYTHING
THAT HAPPENED, SHE FELT LIKE IT REALLY DESTROYED THE
TRAJECTORY OF HER CAREER.
>>LET ME BE CLEAR ABOUT MOST OF THE THINGS I THINK WE EASILY
AGREE ON, AND THEN LET'S GET TO A TOUGH CONVERSATION.
THE THINGS
WE AGREE ON.
HE WAS JUST MARRIED TWO YEARS AT THAT POINT AND HE'S
CHEATING ON HIS WIFE WITH NO COMPUNCTIONS.
I DON'T KNOW THAT
IT'S OUR PLACE TO JUDGE HIM FOR THAT AND THAT'S HIS PERSONAL
LIFE BUT OBVIOUSLY THAT'S NOT COOL, WE ALL AGREE TO THAT.
I
THINK WE ALL AGREE, YOU CAN'T SLEEP WITH PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR
YOU, YOU ARE THE BIG STAR, YOU ARE TAKING A RISK, YOU TAKE THAT
RISK, THEY CATCH YOU, EVEN IF IT'S CONSENSUAL YOU ARE FIRED.
IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME MATT LAUER DID THIS, APPARENTLY HE
DID THIS A LOT.
SO HIM BEING FIRED ISN'T REALLY MUCH OF AN
ISSUE, I THINK WE ALL AGREE TO THAT.
HIM HAVING THE BUTTON
UNDER HIS DESK, SUPER CREEPY, WE ALL AGREE TO THAT.
>>IT'S WEIRD THAT NBC WAS COMPLICIT TO THAT.
>>HOW DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE BUTTON AND YOU DON'T DO
ANYTHING?
THE PART TO ME THAT'S TRICKY AND WE WILL HAVE THIS
CONVERSATION IS, SHE SAYS IT WAS CONSENSUAL, SHE SAID IT TO OR
THREE TIMES AND HEARD ASCRIPTION OF THIS, BUT SHE SAID SHE WAS
TRAUMATIZED AND IT HURT HER CAREER AND PRESUMABLY LAUER
SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT AND HE'S A BAD GUY FOR THAT.
I JUST DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.
>>LET ME GIVE YOU MORE CONTEXT INTO WHEN THINGS TOOK A TURN FOR
THE WORSE.
AT THIS POINT SHE'S IN WEST VIRGINIA ANCHORING FOR A
LOCAL STATION THERE, ONE DAY SHE GETS OUT OF WORK AND SHE SAYS
THERE WAS A NATIONAL ENQUIRER REPORTER THERE WHO SOMEHOW
CAUGHT WIND OF THEIR AFFAIR.
SHE WAS FREAKED OUT, SHE CALLED MATT
LAUER, AND HE APPARENTLY GHOSTED HER.
AND SHE WAS WORKING AT A
DIFFERENT MEDIA COMPANY AND SHE WAS WORKING WITH MARIA MENUNOS,
AND WHEN THEY TRY TO PITCH IT TO NBC AND THEY FOUND OUT THAT
ADDIE COLLINS WAS INVOLVED, THEY SAID YOU CAN'T PITCH IT TO NBC,
SHE SAYS BAD THINGS ABOUT US.
>>BY THE WAY SHE WAS ON THE TODAY SHOW LATER, THE GUY
WHO RAN THE NEWS DIVISION AT THE TIME ON NBC PUT HER ON THE AIR.
>>BUT NOT FOR THAT PROJECT, FOR SOMETHING ELSE.
>>IF YOU ARE QUESTIONING HER CREDIBILITY, SHE RIGHTLY POINTS
OUT, SHE COULD HAVE JUST TOLD THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER IF SHE WAS
INTERESTED IN MONEY.
SHE DIDN'T.
IF LAUER WOULDN'T PUT HER ON THE
AIR BECAUSE HE WAS WORRIED SHE WOULD TALK TO THE MEDIA HE'S A
TOTAL ASS -- THAT'S ESTABLISHED ALREADY, AND THOSE ARE ALL
THINGS HE WAS GUILTY OF.
BUT AS A GUY I HAVE TO CONFESS TO NOT
GETTING THIS, IF THEY HAVE A CONSENSUAL AFFAIR AND SHE SAYS
SHE WAS FLATTERED BY HIS ATTENTION, SHE WAS HAPPY ABOUT
IT, NOW SHE SAYS SHE'S TRAUMATIZED, HOW WAS MATT LAUER
SUPPOSED TO KNOW THAT?
IT'S A REAL QUESTION.
>>I DON'T KNOW IF SHE EXPECTS MATT LAUER TO KNOW THAT, BUT I
DO KNOW THAT WHO I WAS WHEN I WAS 24 IS DIFFERENT THAN WHO I
AM NOW, AND WHAT SHE WAS SAYING WAS THAT SHE WAS YOUNG, SHE WAS
IMPRESSIONABLE, SHE WAS GULLIBLE.
SHE DID SAY IT WAS
CONSENSUAL, AND WHAT SHE SAID -- I THINK IF WE ARE QUESTIONING
THE INTEGRITY OF THEM FOR HAVING AN ADULTEROUS AFFAIR, THAT'S
FAIR, SHE KNEW HE WAS MARRIED AND CHEATING ON HIS WIFE, BUT I
THINK HER MOTIVATION IS NOW TO HELP PUT THE SPOTLIGHT ON MATT
LAUER'S INTEGRITY BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT IN A
CONSENTING RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM FEEL THAT PEOPLE WON'T
BELIEVE THEM.
SHE CAN SHED SOME LIGHT ON WHO HE REALLY IS.
>>THIS MIGHT HURT THEIR CAUSE BECAUSE I HAVE TO TELL YOU, FROM
A GUY'S PERSPECTIVE, YOU GUYS CAN SAY IT'S TERRIBLY WRONG,
THAT'S WHY WE ARE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION, A GUY LOOKED AT
THIS AND GOES, PERFECTLY CONSENSUAL, LATER BECOMES NOT
CONSENSUAL.
I WILL PAUSE THERE AND ALTHOUGH I DON'T KNOW WHAT
THAT MEANS, YOU HAVE TO HELP ME OUT WITH THAT, AND FOR OTHER
GUYS WHO AREN'T PROGRESSIVE LIKE I AM, FOR CONSERVATIVES, FOR
MODERATES, THEY WILL GO, IT TURNS OUT ALL OF THIS IS
NOT REAL.
AND THAT HURTS THE CAUSE.
>>I GET WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND I UNDERSTAND PEOPLE GETTING
TURNED OFF BY THIS ANGLE OF THE CONVERSATION BUT IT'S AN
IMPORTANT ANGLE BECAUSE THIS IS SEPARATE FROM RAPE, SEPARATE
FROM SEXUAL ASSAULT.
YOU CAN'T REALLY PUT IT IN THAT GROUP.
WHAT THIS IS IS IT KIND OF MAKES YOU QUESTION WHAT CONSENT MEANS,
BECAUSE IN CERTAIN ENVIRONMENTS AND CERTAIN POWER DYNAMICS EVEN
IF YOU ARE A STRONG-MINDED 24-YEAR-OLD IT'S REALLY HARD TO
SAY NO TO THE TOP STAR AT NBC, ESPECIALLY WHEN -- I'M SURE SHE
WAS FLATTERED, IT'S FLATTERING TO KNOW THAT SOMEONE THIS
POWERFUL FINDS YOU ATTRACTIVE, THERE'S NO QUESTION.
BUT WHEN
PUSH COMES TO SHOVE, EVEN IF SHE DIDN'T REALLY WANT TO HAVE SEX
WITH THEM, HERE IS THE MOST POWERFUL PERSON AT NBC, SUPER
INTIMIDATING, COMING ON TO YOU PRETTY AGGRESSIVELY, THERE'S A
POWER DYNAMIC THAT MAKES CONSENT TRICKY ISSUE AND I THINK THAT IS
WHAT THE CONVERSATION IS REALLY ABOUT.
>>THAT'S WHY FOR GUYS THIS IS WHAT SHE REALLY BELIEVES.
TAKE
NOTE OF THAT, IF YOU THINK IT'S PERFECTLY FINE, THEY MIGHT NOT
ACTUALLY THINK IT'S PERFECTLY FINE EVEN THOUGH THEY SEEM TO BE
SAYING THAT.
SELECT PROCESS THAT AND UNDERSTAND THAT.
BUT FOR
WOMEN THOUGH, I'M SORRY, YOU CAN'T SAY IT'S GREAT AND
THEN LATER TURN AROUND AND SAY I WAS TRAUMATIZED BY IT.
>>EVERY WOMAN HAS A STORY ABOUT A RELATIONSHIP THEY THOUGHT WAS
GREAT THAT LATER TURNED OUT THAT THEY THOUGHT IT WAS GREAT
BECAUSE OF WHATEVER STATE THEY WERE IN AT THAT TIME WHERE YOUR
SELF-ESTEEM WAS, I KNOW I REGRET ARE REALLY LONG-TERM
RELATIONSHIP I HAD, PEOPLE WHO KNOW ME KNOW WHO IT IS, I
THOUGHT I WAS IN BLISS.
BUT WHAT I WILL SAY, IMAGINE IF YOU THINK
YOU ARE IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH SOMEONE AND THAT PERSON HAS YOUR
BACK AND YOU ARE COOL, EVEN IF IT IS ADULTEROUS, THAT IS YOUR
BOY, YOU ARE MEETING UP IN CLOSETS, DOING WHATEVER, YOU
HAVE THIS ROMANCE GOING, THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN HE IS GHOSTING
YOU, THEN YOU HAVE A CHANCE FOR WORK AND YOU THINK THAT'S YOUR
BOY, BUT HE USED HIS POWER TO SEE TO IT THAT SHE DIDN'T GET
HER SHOW.
>>THAT'S BY FAR THE WORST PART, I AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT.
BUT
THE GHOSTING THING MAKES ME GO TO THE OTHER SIDE.
MEANING THAT
-- I'M TELLING YOU WHAT GUYS WILL THINK, RIGHT OR WRONG --
SOME GUYS WILL THINK, SO YOU ARE MAD THAT HE DIDN'T CONTINUE THE
RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU?
>>THAT'S ALWAYS THE GO TO, BUT I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE NEED
TO GET PAST IS THAT EVERYTHING IS ALWAYS FRAMED IN ACCORDANCE
TO WHAT GUYS THINK, AND THAT'S A BIG PART OF THE PROBLEM.
>>THAT'S A GREAT POINT, AND I LOOK AT IT FROM A GUY'S
PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE I'M A GUY.
STORIES LIKE THIS MAKE ME GO,
WOW, I NEVER WOULD'VE THOUGHT FOLKS WERE THINKING THAT WAY,
AND IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US ALL TO KNOW THAT.
GO AHEAD, ANA.
>>JUST A QUICK POINT, I DON'T THINK IT'S THAT DIFFICULT TO
PREVENT SITUATIONS LIKE THIS IF YOU ARE A GUY AND YOU ARE
CONCERNED.
IF YOU ARE A MAN AT A COMPANY IN A POSITION OF POWER,
DON'T GO PREYING ON THE POWERLESS TO GET YOUR ROCKS OFF.
AND THAT IS WHAT WAS HAPPENING WITH MATT LAUER, IT WASN'T JUST
THIS WOMAN, IT WAS A WELL-KNOWN PATTERN THAT HE WOULD GO AFTER
ASSOCIATE PRODUCERS OR JUST LOW LEVEL EMPLOYEES, PEOPLE WHO
DIDN'T HAVE POWER.
IT'S A BAD IDEA.
FIRST OF ALL DON'T HAVE
SEX AT WORK, OR WITH PEOPLE FROM WORK, BUT IF YOU ARE IN A
POSITION OF POWER DON'T ENGAGE IN SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS
WITH PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR YOU.
>>AGAIN TO REITERATE WHAT I SAID IN THE BEGINNING, THAT'S CLEAR,
MATT LAUER BEING FIRED IS NOT A CLOSE QUESTION.
AND IF YOU ARE
IN POWER AT THAT JOB AND YOU HAVE SEX WITH SOMEONE THAT'S
UNDER YOU AT THAT JOB, YOU ARE RISKING GETTING FIRED.
THAT'S A
FACT.
THERE'S NOT A LOT OF GRAY ZONE THERE.
BUT WE TALK ABOUT
SHE'S 24, HE'S A POWERFUL GUY IN HIS 40S, I HAVE TO BE HONEST
WITH YOU, AGAIN, I THANK GOD I'M MARRIED AND DON'T HAVE TO DEAL
WITH THIS STUFF BECAUSE LET'S SAY I'M SINGLE.
WHERE DO I DRAW
THE LINE?
I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT WORK, THAT'S AN EASY LINE.
I
MEET SOMEONE, AND POWERFUL IN THE INTERNET WORLD?
I'M NOT, BUT
WHERE DO I DRAW THAT LINE?
24, 26?
I DON'T KNOW.
>>THERE WERE A BATCH OF WOMEN THAT HAD MATT LAUER STORIES, IF
THIS WAS ISOLATED YOU COULD LOOK AT THIS AND SAY THIS SEEMS A
LITTLE WEIRD, BUT THIS IS A PATTERN FOR HIM.
>>THE THEME IS MEN IN POSITIONS OF POWER KNOWING THERE ARE YOUNG
WOMEN WHO WANT TO MAKE IT IN THE INDUSTRY SO THEY TAKE ADVANTAGE
OF THEM.
THE SCENARIO YOU'RE MENTIONING IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE
YOU DON'T HAVE CONTROL OR POWER OVER THE WOMAN UNLESS SHE IS
COMING TO YOU HOPING TO GET A JOB OR SOMETHING.
AGAIN, WITH
WEINSTEIN, MATT LAUER, RUSSELL SIMMONS, THESE ARE MEN IN
POSITIONS OF POWER IN SPECIFIC INDUSTRIES AND THEY GO OUT
LOOKING FOR WOMEN THAT THEY ALREADY WORK WITH WHO AREN'T IN
POSITIONS OF POWER, OR WOMEN WHO WANT TO MAKE IT IN THE INDUSTRY.
>>LET ME ASK ONE MORE QUESTION, IF YOU ARE A GUY OUT
THERE AND YOU HAVE SOME DEGREE OF POWER IN AN INDUSTRY, SHOULD
YOU BE CAREFUL AND NOT SLEEP WITH ANY WOMAN IN YOUR INDUSTRY
UNDER 25?
LITERAL QUESTION.
>>I DON'T KNOW IF IT HAS TO DO WITH DATING SOMEBODY WHO IS 25,
IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO LOOK AT THE SITUATION WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE
PATTERN.
BUT WHAT I WILL SAY IS THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THESE GUYS,
IF YOU LOOK AT ALL THE GUYS THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, IT IS
TRUE, THEY DO PREY ON YOUNG, WEAK WOMEN WHO DON'T HAVE POWER,
THERE IS SOMETHING THEY ARE GETTING OFF ON, IT'S BEYOND A
SEXUAL THING, IT'S A MENTAL THING OF GETTING OFF ON PEOPLE,
AND THAT'S WHAT RAPISTS DO.
AND WHAT I WILL TELL GUYS IS WHAT
SHE JUST SAID, IF YOU KNOW YOU WORK AT A PLACE WHERE YOU HAVE
POWER, DON'T SLEEP WITH THE P.A., ASSISTANT, THE GIRL
GETTING THE COFFEE.
I'M NOT TONY FIVE ANYMORE SO MY REALITY HAS
CHANGED, BUT I WILL TELL YOU, IT WAS MATT LAUER AND ALL THESE
GUYS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, THEY ARE JUST THE GUYS WHO GOT
BUSTED.
AND I KEEP SAYING THAT OVER AND OVER.
THE REALITY IS
THAT THEY DON'T THINK, AND THIS WAS HAPPENING DURING A TIME
WHERE THEY WERE GETTING AWAY WITH IT.
YOU HEAR ABOUT BILL
COSBY, EVERYBODY KNEW NOT TO GO OVER THERE, BECAUSE THEY WERE
NOT GETTING IN TROUBLE.
THAT ALSO SPEAKS TO WHO THEY ARE, THEY KEEP DOING STUFF
BECAUSE THEY KNOW THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES.
>>AND PEOPLE WILL COVER FOR THEM.
>>THE LAST THING I WILL
SAY TO THE AUDIENCE, IT'S NOT ONLY EASY BUT UNDERSTANDABLE
THAT IF YOU WERE IN THE TWO DIFFERENT CAMPS THAT YOU WILL
GET REALLY ANGRY.
IF YOU ARE A WOMAN WHO HAS HAD TO DEAL WITH
ANY OF THIS YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR THE OTHER SIDE.
HOW ABOUT
THIS, WHAT ABOUT THAT?
AND YOU ARE TIRED OF MY STUPID
QUESTIONS.
IF YOU SAY I'VE DEALT WITH THIS STUFF AND YOU AREN'T
GETTING IT, AND YOU GET ANGRY.
IF YOU ARE A GUY AND DON'T HAVE
A FEMALE PERSPECTIVE, WHAT THE HELL, I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE
SEX WITH ANYBODY NOW BECAUSE I'M SLIGHTLY MORE POWERFUL?
INSTEAD
OF GETTING ANGRY WHEN I'M ASKING YOU TO DO, AND IT'S A HARD ASK,
LISTEN TO THE OTHER SIDE AND HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITHOUT
GETTING ANGRY, HEAR EACH OTHER OUT, AND HOPEFULLY WE GET TO A
BETTER PLACE.
>>YOU CAN FIGHT FOR WOMEN TO GET EQUAL PAY AND
HAVE EQUAL POWER AND THEN YOU CAN DATE YOUR EQUAL, THEN
THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE.
>>THAT'S A WONDERFUL SOLUTION.