A new Utah law was aimed at protecting our right to -defend ourselves. But as KSL
Investigator Daniella Rivera
found out.. that "self defense
law" is coming under fire..
from both prosecutors and
victims of crime.. for its
unintended consequences.
:23 - :291:38 - 1:433:08 - 3:13
5:26 - 5:318:26 - 8:31
E JUST :23 - :291:38 - 1:433:08 - 3:13 5:26 - 5:318:26 - 8:31 Kay Lynn Stafford
E JUST WOULD LIGHT UP A ROOM WHEN HE
WALKED IN. I KNOW YOU HEAR THAT A LOT, BUT THAT REALLY
WAS OUR CORY.
WALKED IN. I KNOW YOU HEAR THAT A LOT, BUT THAT REALLY photos... are what’s left of a
life cut short. Kay Lynn
E WAS THE BEST photos... are what’s left of a life cut short. Kay Lynn Stafford
E WAS THE BEST FRIEND ANYBODY COULD EVER
HAVE.
FRIEND ANYBODY COULD EVER it was an act of kindness, for someone her son considered a
friend that led to Cory
Haney’s death in March of
20-19. Kay Lynn Stafford
E WAS NEEDING A PLACE HE HAD Haney’s death in March of 20-19. Kay Lynn Stafford
E WAS NEEDING A PLACE HE HAD NOWHERE ELSE TO GO. AND CORY
SAID, COME COME LIVE WITH ME. AND NEXT THING WE KNEW, I GET
A HORRIBLE PHONE CALL FROM THE
POLICE DEPARTMENT.
AND NEXT THING WE KNEW, I GET A HORRIBLE PHONE CALL FROM THE roommate now a suspect.
Jesse Bruce is charged with
murder. He told police he
killed Cory in self-defense.
Now Kay Lynn worries the
charge could be dismissed --
Without a jury ever hearing
the case. Kay Lynn
possible Under H.B. 227 a new self-defense law that went into effect in May. In our
system a preliminary hearing
has to establish probable
cause to bring charges. At
trial, prosecutors have to
prove those charges beyond a
reasonable doubt. But a claim
of self defense now triggers a
new process requiring
prosecutors to prove with
clear and convincing evidence
that the accused was not
acting in self-defense and
they have to do that before
the case goes to trial.
a high
bar for a pre-trail hearing especially, when they’re still working through the evidence.
Sim Gill IF WE CAN’T MEET
THAT, THEN THE CASE IS THROWN
OUT. IT’S JUST JETTISONED.
Salt Lake County District
Attorney Sim Gill says the
law is already impacting
cases. Sim Gill THIS IS
JUST A SAMPLING OF THE
COLLATERAL CONSEQUENCES OF
HOUSE BILL 227 GETTING PASSED.
Those court papers represent
people charged with serious
violent crimes who are now
demanding justification
hearings under the new law.
Jesse Bruce is one of them.
His October trial was
postponed once again and
now a justification hearing is
scheduled for January. Even if
prosecutors are successful
an extra
EXCRUCIATING.
IT’S ANOTHER BRICK IN OUR BACKPACK. Sim Gill THIS IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO CLOG OUR
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND
RETRAUMATIZE VICTIMS.
Mitch Vilos IT’S BETTER TO LET
NINE GUILTY PEOPLE GO FREE
THAN IT IS TO CONVICT ONE
INNOCENT MAN. Mitch Vilos is a
Utah defense attorney... and
author. One of his books
examines self-defense laws in
all 50 states... that’s how he
learned about a unique portion
stand your ground
law Mitch Vilos AND THEN I THOUGHT, LET ME MENTION THAT TO THE LEGISLATURE. Danie:
SO THIS LAW WAS BORN FROM YOUR
RESEARCH FOR THE BOOK? Vilos:
RIGHT. H.B. 227 brings
Florida’s justification
hearing process to Utah.The
intent? Mitch Vilos
HESITATING, EVEN A SPLIT
SECOND, CAN GET YOU KILLED
Vilos says people should be
able to act in self-defense
without worrying about the
cost of defending themselves
later, in a trial. Mitch
Vilos THE RISK OF DYING SHOULD
BE ON THE CRIMINAL, OR THE
ASSAILANT, NOT ON THE
DEFENDER. AND THAT’S WHY I
PROPOSED THIS LAW. Outside of
Florida and now Utah, Vilos
did not find any other state
with this specific legal
process. Danie: ARE WE A
LEADER OR ARE WE THE GUINEA
PIG? Vilos: OH WE’RE A LEADER.
Sim Gill WE ARE,
UNFORTUNATELY A VERY TERRIBLE
GUINEA PIG. Gill says the new
law comes at a cost. Sim
Gill WE WARNED OF THESE
COLLATERAL CONSEQUENCES, THOSE
WERE IGNORED. His office and
others ádid warn lawmakers
as the bill went through
committee hearings. Darcy
Goddard, policy advisor, salt
lake co da’s office: THEY WILL
BE REQUESTED WITH INCREDIBLE
FREQUENCY...TAXING THE COURTS
IN A WAY THAT IS REALLY
UNTENABLE. HouseDebateBill2
27 THIS IS A NEW SECTION OF
CODE THAT BASICALLY COPIES AND
PASTES FROM FLORIDA STATUTE.
sponsor, Representative Karianne Lisonbee encouraged fellow lawmakers to support
the legislation. Lisonbee:
CURRENTLY, INDIVIDUALS WHO USE
THEIR FIREARM IN SELF-DEFENSE
ARE SUBJECT TO PROSECUTION AND
OFTEN A COSTLY JURY TRIAL.
Both the house and senate
passed the bill with less
than 15 minutes of debate.
But since the law went into
not just impacting cases involving gun owners. Sim Gill I HAVE ONE PERSON WHO’S
STABBING ANOTHER PERSON, I
HAVE ANOTHER PERSON BEATING
SOMEBODY OVER THE HEAD WITH A
ROCK. AND THESE ARE ALL NOW
BECOMING EVIDENTIARY
JUSTIFICATION HEARINGS. The
death
too. Danie: THIS IS NOT EVEN A GUN CASE. Kay Lynn: NO, IT WASN’T. HE WAS STABBED.
BRUTALLY HORRIBLE. IT WAS
HORRIBLE. Kay Lynn says Cory
was unarmed, and stabbed
multiple times. Allison
Anderman ANYONE UNDER EXISTING
LAW CAN DEFEND THEMSELVES.
Allison Anderman is Senior
Law
Center. Both Anderman and Gill say the right to self- defense is already built into
the tradition of the criminal
justice system. Sim
Gill IT’S NOT GIVING US
ANYTHING NEW. BUT IT IS
COSTING US A LOT. People could
always claim self-defensethey
say -- but now, the decision
shifts from a jury to one
person, a judge. Allison
Anderman THE UTAH LEGISLATURE
HAS GIVEN PEOPLE A GET OUT OF
JAIL FREE CARD FOR MURDERING
OTHER PEOPLE. Danie: DID
YOU CONSIDER THAT THIS LAW
COULD INCENTIVIZE FRIVOLOUS
SELF DEFENSE CLAIMS?
Lisonbee: I THINK IF WE LOOK
AT THE STATUTE AS A WHOLE, AND
WE WEIGH ALL OF THE PROVISIONS
IN THE STATUTE, I AM NOT
CONCERNED WITH THAT. We sat
down with Representative
Lisonbee to share what we
learned and how the law she
family. Lisonbee: I DO THINK THIS IS A WELL-BALANCED STATUTE, BUT AGAIN... But this
interview ended abruptly.
Lisonbee: YOU KNOW, YOU ASKED
ME FOR FOUR QUESTIONS AND
YOU’VE GONE WELL BEYOND AND
OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF THOSE
QUESTIONS. Danie: OH,
REPRESENTATIVE, YOU’RE STILL
MICED UP. WE’RE WE’D LIKE TO
CONTINUE SPEAKING WITH YOU
ABOUT THIS BILL. We don’t send
interview questions but we
did email Lisonbee four topics
like to cover including interview questions but we did email Lisonbee four topics we
like to cover including ow the new law is working Two days later Lisonbee
agreed to continue the conversation. Lisonbee2 I
BELIEVE IT’S FUNCTIONING IN
THE STATE She told us the law
was intended to address
politically motivated
prosecutions but could not
provide examples of that
happening in Utah.
Lisonbee2 THERE MAY BE CASES,
I DON’T KNOW OF ANY. BUT I DO
KNOW THAT THEY ARE HAPPENING.
Danie: YOU DON’T KNOW OF
ANY SPECIFIC ONES YOU JUST
E HAPPENING? Danie: YOU DON’T KNOW OF ANY SPECIFIC ONES YOU JUST KNOW THEY
E HAPPENING? Lisonbee: I THINK I JUST
ANSWERED THAT QUESTION. Lisonbee said after reaching
out to several groups and
believe Lisonbee said after reaching out to several groups and agencies she doesn
believe there are serious issues with
her bill. Lisonbee: NOBODY COULD BACK UP THE ASSERTION
THAT THERE ARE BROAD CONCERNS
OUT THERE. The KSL
investigators reached out to
the top prosecutor in every
county in Utah. Most told us
because the law is so new --
it hasn’t impacted them yet.
In six counties with scheduled
justification hearings -- none
of the prosecutors support the
law. One is undecided. Two,
neutral. Three, are against
it. Pexton Justification
Ruling Audio FUNDAMENTAL TO
OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IS
OUR JURY SYSTEM. That includes
the prosecutor in Juab County
- who had a murder charge
thrown out after an August
justification hearing.The
presiding judge -- called it
the most difficult decision
he’s ever been asked to make
-- and hoped lawmakers would
take notice. Judge: I HOPE
THEY WILL EVALUATE WHETHER
THIS NEW STATUTE HAS HAD THE
RESULTS THEY INTENDED Troy
James Pexton claimed he was
justified after shooting his
friend while breaking up a
drunken brawl. A jury could
have reached the same decision
after evaluating all the
evidence but the family of
Michael Caussey, the man
killed, will never know.
Family member WE ALL FEEL THE
JUSTICE SYSTEM HAS NO DOUBT
FAILED US. JUDGE: FOR THOSE
WHO WILL UNDOUBTEDLY LEAVE
TODAY FEELING THAT JUSTICE HAS
NOT BEEN DONE, I ENCOURAGE YOU
TO SEEK OUT YOUR REPRESENTATIVE
S AND DISCUSS YOUR CONCERNS.
Lisonbee -- stands by the
outcome of that case.
Lisonbee: HE SHOULDN’T HAVE TO
FACE A JURY TRIAL; HE SHOULD
BE ABLE TO AVOID THAT
EMOTIONAL AND LEGAL EXPENSE.
She says people who use self-
defense in Utah areá victims
Lisonbee I HEARD FROM
VICTIMS AND I ACTED AND THAT’S
THE RESULT HOUSE BILL 227 AND
I’M GRATEFUL THAT I CAN
REPRESENT THOSE VICTIMS.
Laurel Hanks: I THINK IT’S
VERY DIFFICULT FOR
VICTIMS.Laurel Hanks is an
attorney who helps a different
kind of victim. Not the
e attorney who helps a different kind of victim. Not the accused -- but People who
e lost loved ones and want
answers. Laurel Hanks HONESTLY, I DON’T EVEN KNOW
WHAT TO TELL THEM. BECAUSE
THERE ARE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE
AND WHAT THEY’VE LOST.
Danie: WHAT WOULD YOU WANT
LEGISLATORS TO KNOW?
Laurel Hanks I HOPE THEY WOULD
GET MORE INFORMATION ABOUT HOW
THIS IMPACTS REAL PEOPLE.
People like Kay Lynn. A mom,
facing another holiday season
without her childHer chance
for justice now hanging in
the balance. IT’S MY SON’S
LIFE, YOU KNOW, HE’S GONE. HE
CAN’T COME BACK. AND I, HE
NEEDS HIS STORY TO BE HEARD.
AND HE NEEDS A JURY TO MAKE
THAT DECISION.
Lisonbee told us the
unintended consequences of
this self-defense law can be
remedied with an appeal
process. But we learned the
office is
the only agency that can appeal felony cases. Prosecutors wanting to appeal
are at the mercy of the A-G.
And they have just 30 days to
act. Should new evidence come
simply too late. TOSS TO KEVIN