>>>
>>> THE
>>> THE NOTORIOUS TRIAL OF LIZZIE BORDEN AKHIL ACCUSED OF
KILLING HER PARENTS IS A
MYSTERY THAT HAS FASCINATED
PEOPLE OVER TIME.
SHE WAS ACQUITTED IN THE CASE,
PEOPLE ARE UNDECIDED ABOUT
WHETHER SHE GOT AWAY WITH
MURDER.
MURDER.
MURDER. A
MURDER. A NEW BOOK BY CARA ROBERTSON
BRINGS THIS ALIVE WITH
QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ROLE THAT
CLASS, WEALTH, AND GENDER
PLAYED AND STILL PLAYS IN CRIME
PROSECUTION TODAY.
PROSECUTION TODAY. WELCOME, IT IS NICE TO MEET
YOU.
YOU.
YOU. YOU
YOU. YOU BEEN FASCINATED BY THE
SUBJECT FOR SOME TIME.
>> IT STARTED OUT AT HARVARD
AND IT WAS MY SENIOR THESIS.
>> SO THIS IS A COUPLE DECADES
IN THE MAKING.
WHAT IS IT SPECIFICALLY THAT IS
SO FASCINATING?
SO FASCINATING? >> I THINK PARTLY IT IS WHODUNIT
, AND IT IS CERTAINLY A WHY
BECAUSE THE MOTIVATION REMAINS
UNCLEAR.
UNCLEAR.
UNCLEAR. >> SHE WAS 32 AT THE TIME THAT
HER PARENTS WERE KILLED,
CORRECT?
CORRECT?
CORRECT? I THINK I ALWAYS THOUGHT SHE
WAS YOUNGER, AND I AM NOT SURE
THAT I KNEW SHE WAS ACQUITTED.
YOU DON'T THINK ABOUT THIS AND
AS HE WENT BACK, WHAT JUMPED
OUT AT YOU?
>> I WAS STRUCK BY SOME OF THE
EVIDENCE THAT DID NOT GET TO
THE TRIAL.
THE TRIAL. WE KNOW THAT SHE TRIED TO BUY
ACID BEFORE THE MURDERS AND
THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT THE
JUDGE DECIDED TO KEEP FROM THE
JURIES.
JURIES.
JURIES. >> THAT SEEMS IMPORTANT.
>> WE ALSO KNOW THAT SHE
TESTIFIED AND GAVE DIFFERENT
ACCOUNTS OF WHERE SHE WAS AT
THE TIME OF EACH MURDER, AND
THE JUDGES DECIDED THAT BECAUSE
THE COMMONWEALTH WAS INTENDING
TO ARREST HER, THEY WOULD NOT
PERMIT THAT BEFORE THE JURY
EITHER.
EITHER.
EITHER. >> WHERE DO WE THINK SHE WAS
BEFORE THE MURDER AND WAS THERE
ANYONE ELSE IN THE HOUSE?
>> THERE ARE A LIMITED NUMBER
OF SUSPECT'S.
OF SUSPECT'S. IF YOU RULE OUT AN OUTSIDER.
WHEN SHE WAS KILLED UP STARED
IN A GUESTROOM, LIZZIE BORDEN
SAID SHE WAS DOWNSTAIRS AND
WHEN MR. BORDEN WAS KILLED
AFTER HE RETURNED FROM BUSINESS,
HE WAS KILLED DOWNSTAIRS IN THE
SITTING ROOM AND LIZZIE BORDEN
SAID SHE WAS OUTSIDE IN THE BARN
LOOKING FOR SOMETHING FOR HER
FISHING LINE.
FISHING LINE. >> WAS THERE ANYONE ELSE IN THE
HOUSE?
HOUSE?
HOUSE? >>
HOUSE? >> THERE WAS A HOUSEKEEPER, WHO
WAS AN IRISH IMMIGRANT AND WE
KNOW SHE WAS OUTSIDE WASHING
WINDOWS AT THE TIME THAT MRS.
BORDEN WAS KILLED.
AND THAT SEEMED TO RULE HER
OUT.
OUT.
OUT. >>
OUT. >> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS
INTERESTING TO ME THAT YOU
BRING TO LIFE IN THIS BOOK IS
IN TERMS OF COVERAGE OF THE
TRIAL, THERE WAS A LOT OF THE
FACT THAT SHE WAS A WELL
BROUGHT UP WOMEN AND SHE COULD
NOT HAVE POSSIBLY DONE THIS AND
THERE WAS THIS INABILITY TO
GRASP THAT, YES, SHE COULD'VE
DONE IT.
DONE IT.
DONE IT. >> SHE SEEMED TO CHECK ALL THE
BOXES OF MIDDLE-CLASS AND
ESPECIALLY AND UNMARRIED WOMEN
IN HER TIME A PLACE.
SHE WAS ACTIVE AT HER CHURCH
AND SHE WAS A SUNDAY SCHOOL
TEACHER AND IT SEEMED
INCONGRUOUS THAT SOMEONE WHO
LOOKED AND ACTED LIKE HER
BEFORE THE MURDERS COULD'VE
DONE SOMETHING SO VIOLENT.
>> AND THE QUESTION WOULD BE
WHY.
WHY.
WHY. AND
WHY. AND IT SEEMS THAT ALTHOUGH THEY
LOOKED LIKE A NORMAL HOUSEHOLD
ON THE OUTSIDE, INSIDE THERE WAS
SUFFOCATING TENSIONS AND IT WAS
THE SIGN OF A COLD WAR BETWEEN
THE GENERATIONS.
THE GENERATIONS. THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT MONEY
MOTIVE AND THAT WAS SOMETHING
THAT DID NOT CORRESPOND TO
PEOPLE'S IDEA OF WHAT WOULD
MOTIVATE A WOMAN TO COMMIT
MURDER.>> WHEN YOU BRING THOSE
LESSONS FORWARD AND YOU LOOK AT
THE JUSTICE SYSTEM TODAY, WHAT
ARE THE SIMILARITIES IN WHICH
GENDER AND CLASS AND OTHER
PREJUDGMENT ABOUT PEOPLE AFFECT
WHO GETS ARRESTED AND PROSECUTED
AND HOW MUCH PUNISHMENT THEY
RECEIVE?
RECEIVE?
RECEIVE? >> IT IS SIGNIFICANT -- ONE OF
THE FIRST THINGS THAT HER TEAM
DID WAS GET VERY GOOD LAWYERS
INCLUDING THE FORMER GOVERNOR
OF MASSACHUSETTS.
OF MASSACHUSETTS. SO THE LEGAL REPRESENTATION
HELPED.
HELPED.
HELPED. SECONDLY, IT WAS CLEAR THAT SHE
WAS SOMEONE WHO SEEMED TO
EMBODY LADY HOOD OF THAT ERA
AND WAS A RESPECTABLE WOMAN.
SHE GOT A LOT OF BENEFIT OF THE
DOUBT.
DOUBT.
DOUBT. FOR EXAMPLE, HER IMMIGRANT MADE
WOULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN THE SAME
OPINIONS.
OPINIONS.
OPINIONS. WHEN YOU SEE THE PRESS TRYING
TO COME TO TERMS WHEN THEY
IMAGINE THE CHARACTER OF THE
PERSON ON TRIAL AND TRYING TO
MATCH THAT UP WITH THE CRIMES
AND THE IDEA THAT THEY COULD
FATHOM THE DEPTHS OF THIS
ENIGMATIC PERSON --
>> IT SPEAKS TO WHAT EACH
INDIVIDUAL PERSON WHO IS
ACCUSED OF A CRIME FACES IN
TERMS OF WHAT WE BELIEVE ABOUT
THEM.
THEM.
THEM. >>
THEM. >> AND SO MUCH OF THIS SEEMS TO
BE BASED ON THE EXACT SAME
BEHAVIOR LOOKED AT TWO
DIFFERENT WAYS.
DIFFERENT WAYS. SO THE EXTRAORDINARY SELF
POSSESSION THAT SHE DISPLAYED
AT THE TRIAL WAS A SIGN OF HER
DIGNITY, EXACTLY HOW YOU WOULD
EXPECT SOMEONE TO BEHAVE, BUT
FOR OTHERS THEY THOUGHT IT WAS
A SUSPICIOUS COOLNESS THAT WAS
MORE INDICATIVE OF THE KIND OF
MASCULINE NERVE IT WOULD'VE
TAKEN TO COMMIT THESE KINDS OF
MURDERS.
MURDERS.
MURDERS. >> THERE ARE RECORDS THAT
BELONG TO HER ATTORNEY THAT ARE
STILL CLOSED THE COULD HAVE
EVIDENCE THAT WOULD HELP US
UNDERSTAND?
UNDERSTAND? >> IT IS ONE OF THE INCREDIBLY
FRUSTRATING PIECES OF THIS
CASE.
CASE.
CASE. SHE
CASE. SHE HAD THREE LAWYERS, TWO OF
WHOM HAD RECORDS OF THE TRIAL.
ONE OF THE LAWYERS WAS A LOCAL
LAWYER AND HIS FILE ENDED UP IN
THE FAMILY ATTIC AND WAS
DONATED TO THE HISTORICAL
SOCIETY.
SOCIETY.
SOCIETY. THERE IS ONE SET OF FILES THAT
REMAINS HELD BY THE LAW FIRM OF
THE FORMER GOVERNOR OF
MASSACHUSETTS, AND THEY CLAIM
THAT ACCORDING TO THE
MASSACHUSETTS BAR THEY ARE NOT
ALLOWED TO DISCLOSE THEM OR
DESCRIBE WHAT THEY HAVE.>> I
WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT THAT
WOULD HAVE ELIMINATED PART OF
THE PRIVILEGE.
THE PRIVILEGE. >> WE KNOW THAT ATTORNEY-CLIENT
PRIVILEGE SURVIVES DEATH, BUT
IT SEEMS TO BE MORE OF A
PREOCCUPATION WITH PRESERVING
THE REPUTATION OF THEIR CLIENT.
THE PRESENT LAWYERS FEW
THEMSELVES AS THE LAWYERS OF
LIZZIE BORDEN.
LIZZIE BORDEN. >> DO YOU THINK SHE DID IT?
>> I GET ASKED THAT ALL THE
TIME.
TIME.
TIME. I
TIME. I DON'T TAKE A POSITION IN THE
BOOK, BUT IT IS HARD TO IMAGINE
HOW ANYONE ELSE COULD HAVE.
IT IS DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE HOW
SHE COULD HAVE DONE IT, SO I'M
CONTENT SAY WE WILL NEVER
KNOW.>> AND THERE IT IS.
YOU CAN DRAW YOUR OWN
CONCLUSION.
CONCLUSION. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
CARA ROBERTSON DISCUSSES THIS