(inspiring music)
- Hello and welcome back to couples talk.
I'm Jonathan Decker, licensed therapist,
and best kisser on the planet.
(all laughing)
Yes he is, that's your line.
We went over this.
This is Alicia Decker.
- Yes he is, I'm Alicia Decker.
Co-founder of "Mended Light".
- And joining us today, we have Ilija and Katie
Vrajich, or Vrajich, Vrajich.
(laughs)
- Vrajich.
- No, Vrajich, Vrajich, Vrajich.
Ilija and Katie Vrajich.
And we wanna thank you.
You joined us for a video previously talking
about managing health struggles in marriage.
And today we're gonna talk about
mental health struggles in marriage.
I said that so cheerfully.
Mental health, right? - Sounds fun.
- We had marked down, 'cause Alicia is the great organizer
and she's like, here are their names, which I've mucked up
and here's what we're talking about.
And it said depression
and just as we're rolling like,
which one of you has struggled with depression.
And it turned into a competition.
(laughing)
- [Jonathan] This was off camera,
but it turned into a competition.
Where it's like who's had it worse.
So just take it from there.
We'll just sit and watch.
- You've had it worse.
- I think my depression was worse,
but we've both had different spans of time.
He had a really difficult time
with his business,
where we were having to shut down business
and we had some serious betrayal from partners
and just some really hard times financially,
where he was pretty depressed.
And he would, he told me later,
he never felt like he wanted to kill himself,
but he was really okay with not living anymore.
Like if something happened and he died,
he would have been really okay with that.
Right? - Yeah.
- And then I had a span of time
after I was finished nursing my last baby.
So I was pregnant or nursing or sometimes both
for 12 and a half years straight.
And after that,
I think I had like a really bad hormone crash
or something happened where I
basically didn't get out of bed for a month.
- She just cried all day long.
- I just didn't do anything,
I was like despair pretty much describes my life
for probably like a month or two.
And then somebody said-
- But you know Katie that's not-
- Yeah, no- - That's nowhere close to her.
- Not you at all.
No, it's not me at all.
- And anyway somebody recommended like a herbal thing
that can help your hormones.
And that kind of got me out of the depression,
but I still had anxiety for four to six months,
like really bad anxiety.
And sometimes I can still feel it come back
a little bit and I'm like (gasps)
- There's certain things that'll trigger.
- Yeah, like even finding shoes.
There was a time where at my kids,
needed to find their shoes.
Kids all, every time you leave,
you have to find the shoes again.
- Right, right- - Why do we do this.
Anyway, they needed to find their shoes,
and I ended up like on the floor
in the fetal position, sobbing hysterically,
'cause like finding the shoes was too much work.
- [Jonathan] Yeah.
- And this is when I knew like this is a serious problem.
And I like went to therapy
and I was trying different things.
Anyway, it was-
- So just, for the sake of those watching at home
were either of you ever formally diagnosed?
- [Ilija] No.
- Okay, we're gonna do it right now.
(laughing)
- Just tell me if this, I'm not...
tell me if this applied to you at any point in time.
So we already talked about not feeling suicidal,
being okay if you die, like,
having a hard time getting out of bed,
crying easily, having a difficult time stopping,
loss of interest in things you used to enjoy.
Feeling hopeless? - Mm-hmm.
Feeling worthless?
- Mm-hmm.- - Definitely.
- Low energy? - Mm-hmm.
- Like none at all.
- Yeah, low motivation?
- Also none, yes. - Yeah.
- Okay, you have now been formally-
- Diagnosed.
- Did it last longer than a month?
- Yes. - Yes.
- Okay, so that is a formal diagnosis.
This, you were- - There we go.
- both clinically depressed.
- There we go. (laughing)
- Wonderful. - Now we know.
- And we got through it.
(laughing)
- Right?
My work here is done.
You're welcome. (laughing)
This is the easiest depression at work I've ever had to do.
I love when people show...
It's like showing up to a restaurant
and be like we're not hungry.
Okay, so let's talk about...
And I know if I, those things that I listed,
you've been there.
- Mm-hmm.
- And in recent years, more than ever before,
I know I've been there, I think,
and that's the thing
when people talk about what is a mental disorder.
It's something normal
that's aggravated to the point
where you struggle to function.
Everybody's felt miserable.
Everybody's felt hopeless.
Everyone's felt low energy.
You know, all these things.
Maybe not thoughts of death or things like that,
but everyone's felt sad.
But when it reaches the heights of,
it's hard for me to even live my life,
that's when it becomes depression.
Just like everyone's felt stressed or afraid,
but not everybody has had a panic disorder
or an anxiety disorder.
How much does it impede your daily life?
So for you, he had a hard time getting out of bed,
had a hard time performing as a parent
is what it sounds like.
- Yeah.
How did it affect your life and situations?
- That she was depressed?
- [Jonathan] That you were depressed.
- Oh, that I was depressed.
- [Jonathan] Yeah.
- So mine was mostly in the work setting.
So just not being able to
just focus and work, I couldn't even sleep.
I would wake up and I would walk the streets
at three, four in the morning.
Worrying about what was to come
and all that kind of stuff.
So, not, yeah, not doing anything that I like to do
like just completely de-motivated
from anything that I like to do.
- Yeah, you ever try during that period to do something
that you used to love and it wouldn't bring you cheer?
- No, he didn't try anything. - I didn't even try.
- [Jonathan] Yeah.
- No, he slept and worked.
And even being around us- - Well even working was like-
- Even being around us,
- Sitting in front of the computer,
- being with the kids. - staring at the screen.
- I guess being with the kids,
you would have use to like or enjoy,
and even that like being around them was like.
- Yeah.- - [Ilija] Yeah.
- You know what brings me joy, not being around my kids.
(laughing)
- I totally understand.
(laughing)
Except, I haven't been around them for two weeks now
and I really miss them.
- Oh my gosh, no I totally get that.
Really quick tangent
we were in Hawaii and after like three days,
I'm like, ugh, you know,
I'm starting to miss our kids and she just looks at me
and I'm like, you don't?
She says, "I get to eat my meals while they're hot".
(laughs)
- I get to finish my thoughts- - [Claire] It was amazing.
- and finish my sentences.
I'm sleeping enough to actually, you know,
like, know what's going on, like this is...
Actually, I don't think you ever had that problem.
You always knew what was going on.
But, actually I want you to follow through
on that other question.
How did her depression affect you and vice versa?
- I think for me, Katie is just,
she's very independent,
and she's always happy and doing things.
So to see her, depressed and not be able to get a bed
and then not be able to do anything
like there was nothing that I could do to fix the situation
other than take the kids and help in that regard.
So that was hard to just see her completely the opposite
of who she really is and not knowing how to actually,
how do you help this?
- You feel helpless, you wanna take it away.
- Yeah, yeah, for sure.
- What about for you?
- I'd say that's about the same.
I felt a little worried about him.
Like, would he do something, to take his life?
Like would he...
Does he feel that bad?
It feels like a strange question to ask, like,
are you contemplating suicide?
But like, I never brought myself to ask that.
But I just told him yesterday,
we know a family or that somebody died by suicide recently,
and it just made me really...
I told him, promise me if I'm ever depressed again
you'll ask me if I'm thinking about that.
And,
I told him if I, he's ever depressed again,
I will ask him that.
I wasn't brave enough to ask him that
when he was depressed the last time.
I hope we never have to encounter that again.
- [Jonathan] Yeah.
- But mostly I felt worried
and kind of like what happened to my spouse?
I miss him, like, he's disappeared.
Will he ever come back?
- [Jonathan] Yeah. - Will he be back?
Will I have,
like, I don't, I have a shell of this,
- Yeah, that was kind of- - Human again.
- the way I felt too.
Like how long is this like a six month thing
or is this gonna be like a- - Forever?
- This is what we're gonna deal
with now for the rest of our marriage and lives.
So the unknown,
got a little scary.
- So, you guys have,
shared about the depression you've experienced
at various times hopefully it hasn't been at the same time,
so that's a blessing. (chuckles)
And I'm sure the health challenges you have experienced,
I would imagine at times exacerbated,
you know, the physical health challenges
exacerbated the mental health challenges.
What did you do to overcome those times
when you couldn't get out of bed for a month?
And I'm sure it wasn't just one single thing,
but what were your keys to overcoming that
and that you still incorporate?
- Do you want to start?
- I have to think about it, I don't know.
- Okay.
So for me, the depression was so hormonal
that just some herbal supplement helped me
to be able to get out of bed.
As far as the anxiety,
I don't actually know why it resolved
because I know a lot of
like emotional
tools and spiritual tools to keep me mostly feeling pretty
mentally, emotionally, and spiritually healthy.
But none of them were working at all at the time.
So I don't feel like anything I did actually changed it.
I feel like
time just
made it come around
which is kind of discouraging.
(laughing)
If you're in the middle of it feels like,
you know, time.
I mean, I did go to therapy, but I don't feel like,
the therapy brought me out.
I was already kind of coming out already,
when I found the right therapist.
I went to like three other therapists first
and it was not helpful.
And when I found a good one,
I was already feeling like 80% better.
So it was like, just for fun mostly.
(laughs)
I think therapy is fun.
- So if I can delve into that a little bit
like you were...
There were indicators
that it was a hormonal imbalance, right?
Because depression can be effected by so many things.
Like it can be nutritional.
It can be hormonal.
It can be life circumstances that are depressing.
And so-
- Well, that's true too.
I mean, at the time of your depression,
we had just sold our house.
We moved into my brother's unfinished basement.
We went from a 4,400 square foot home to,
I think it was like maybe a thousand square feet
of unfinished basement with five kids.
- In Northern Utah, where-
- In Northern Utah in the winter time.
- So I think it could have been seasonal.
- That sounds depressing.
- Yeah.
(laughs)
- It was pretty depressing.
But the moment that got really depressing was when
we were asked to not come upstairs anymore.
And like at that point,
we had been kind of sharing the upstairs,
but my sister-in-law
was having a really hard time with that.
So we ended up just having to stay downstairs all the time.
And being downstairs in that dungeon, just about did me in.
So I think it was time for hormones,
but also we-
- It was just the perfect storm.
- We moved out of that situation.
We had our own space again, we had,
like there was summer,
I could be outside
in the sun. - But I think,
one of the things that you did though,
is you kind of, at some point recognized that,
that was contributing to the...
Like obviously there was the hormonal things,
but there was other things that were contributing to it
and you said I have to get out of this situation.
- Yeah. - Yeah.
- And so that's when you went
and stayed with down to St. Georgia.
- That's true, I did leave. - at a friend's house
for a month.
And that's when I think things really started to change,
because you said, "There's one thing that I can control,
which is this environment."
- So let me get myself
out of this environment.
- Well and the thing about depression,
because it can have multiple causes
and multiple, it's like all in a blender, it's a cocktail.
Is what can you do?
And I tell people
you can't wait until you feel better to do things.
You have to do things to feel better.
And that is a really hard uphill battle.
And you talk about giving it time.
I mean, yes,
depressed episodes are days, weeks to months long.
- And you do come out and even out,
but the process can be accelerated.
Or the depressed episode could be less severe depending on
how well you're taking care of yourself,
what problems you have, you can find solutions for
or escapes from, and so on.
These are great techniques.
- Ilija for you, what helped in overcoming your depression?
I mean, I know so much of it was-
- Or managing, right?
- Yeah, managing.
- Yeah, I think for me, the big thing was just
taking it really kind of focusing on the day to day
and really forcing my mind
not to look too far into the future.
One thing that really, really helped though was,
'cause a lot of mine was financially based,
there was a lot of debt
that was kind of looming overhead.
And I was able to look back to the past
when we had overcome other situations.
And I was able to draw from situations to say,
"Okay, five years ago we encountered,
something, maybe not exactly,
but something similar.
We got through this."
And so there was a little glimmer of hope in that,
that allowed me
to put hope that I could pull out of it.
And so, just taking it day by day
and thinking about how we've done this before,
we can do it again,
that slowly kind of got me out of it.
And then as I started to see little things improve,
financially, I grabbed hold of those
as real blessings to pull me through.
I think that's what helped.
- Y'all are an amazing couple.
Thank you so much for sharing all this with us
and with our viewers.
I think it's gonna be incredibly helpful.
For all y'all watching at home,
if you enjoy what we're doing here at "Mended Light",
please like subscribe, hit the bell
so you can get our videos
and share our content.
We're trying to help as many people
and lift as many people as we can.
We also want to direct you to our other video,
"Finding Meaning During Depression",
you can find the link for that in the comments.
- And remember to keep shining.
We need your light.
- Yeah, we do.
(giggles)
(inspiring music)