- I'm going to react
to a fascinating moment I saw between Mike Tyson,
Bill Burr and Jeremy Piven on Tyson's podcast.
You'll see Tyson pushing Burr to be more open
and self-disclose some personal things.
The point of this breakdown is to learn
about how conversations like these can sometimes develop.
What I'd like you to do is to put yourself in their shoes,
ask yourself if at the end of this conversation,
is there anything Tyson could do differently
that would've helped Burr open up more naturally.
I'll use the psychological model called the Johari Window
to help make sense of the conversation.
The clip starts about 10 minutes into the podcast.
They just finished talking about religion.
And now they're starting
to talk about how they've been working on themselves
over the past couple of years.
We'll watch the whole two and a half minute clip together,
and then I'll make some observations afterward
and make one small suggestion for Tyson
that may have helped Burr open up.
And you can compare what I say
to any advice you might give Tyson after watching this.
- But there's something about it that really struck me
at the very end with the credits
and you're there with your kid.
And it's that silhouette of you guys in the back.
- Oh yeah, Royal Open Hall, yeah.
- How you feel about that?
- It looked like someone,
I don't wanna say who has it all,
but you've figured some stuff out.
- No, I did, I did. I did.
No, I definitely figured stuff out
that's why I'm trying to figure out how to come back
to a higher power thing,
trying to figure out my temper and all of that.
I mean, there's something wrong with you
if you have a kid and it doesn't change you,
it doesn't make you look at yourself and be like,
"Well, I got a lot to work on."
Because there was a lot of stuff I didn't like about myself.
And then when I had a kid, I was like,
"Oh my God." - Oh, you see it
in your kid?
- I feel like, yeah, I'm contagious.
- And you think, "No, no, no."
- It's like, "I don't wanna pass this (beep) on.
- You don't think you're contagious.
You thought you could hide something.
- No. - No, we like secrets.
- I have a temperament, you can't hide that.
- No, no, no, we're not hiding your temper,
we're hiding the cause of the temper.
- I'm trying to figure out, what's the cause of it?
- Oh, you know the cause of it brother.
Don't start that, "Why am I mad?"
I know you know why you're mad.
Why are you mad?
Who hurt you?
- Oh yeah, but that's what I just figured out.
But for years when I would yell at my phone,
I thought I hated technology.
- Oh, this guy is clever.
- It had nothing to do with your phone.
- No, I'm serious, I'm being totally honest.
- No, you're not, you silly goose.
- No, you know what it is?
No, the thing is you're more evolved.
You've worked on yourself more.
So you think I'm where you're at, I'm not.
So I'm learning from you right now.
I'm not trying to be clever.
I'm being totally honest.
You know how many times I've said?
I (beep) hate technology?
Technology kept me alive, I had a ruptured appendix.
I don't hate technology.
I just get frustrated with it and I have this-
- No, this is what you hate.
You hate this phone.
- This is an aggressive therapy session.
You hate this phone.
You hate technology, you hate this phone, this phone.
- It's too light out.
It's the afternoon to go into my demons.
(laughing together)
Smoking a cigar.
I thought I was smoking my last cigar here.
- Let's Segmund Freud him, man, let's Segmund Freud him.
- I don't know if we should drag him to deep water.
- I see that this is the good cop over here.
Piven over here like, "Yeah, I saw your special.
"I really enjoyed it."
And you're like, "You know why you're angry."
I just wanna (beep) sit here and smoke a cigar Mike.
- Remember, the question for you is,
what if any suggestion could you give to Tyson
that would have made it easier for Burr to open up?
I'll give my tip at the end,
but first let me break it down.
I noticed some really interesting moments.
The clip starts with Bill Burr
and he's speaking in this first box of the Johari Window.
Like Burr, in relationships,
we spend most of the time in our comfort zone.
The first window is sometimes called the open self.
Burr is talking about parts of him that are known to him
and known to others.
He says, "There's a lot
"of stuff I didn't like about myself."
He uses the past tense, "I didn't like these things."
He says, "I'm contagious, I don't wanna pass this on."
And that shows he's really well aware that he's an angry
and irritated person.
I think comedians have a higher self-awareness
than the average person about this kind of thing.
And I'm guessing that most people know that about Burr,
so that puts his comments here in the open box.
Then comes the big turning point.
Tyson wants to go to a deeper level
and is trying to draw information about Burr from inside
of the facade area, into the open self.
The facade window is where Burr knows things about himself
that are not necessarily known to others.
Tyson says.
- You don't think you're contagious.
You thought you could hide something.
No, no, no, we're not hiding your temper,
we're hiding the cause of the temper.
- It's a really insightful comment.
Burr doesn't disclose anything new.
He says, "I'm trying to figure out,
what is the cause of it?"
Self-disclosure is a term we use to describe
when we voluntarily reveal information about ourselves.
But Burr isn't volunteering,
Tyson is pushing him to disclose.
My favorite moment is where Tyson then says.
- Oh, you know the cause of it brother.
Oh, don't start that, "Why am I mad?"
I know you know why you're mad.
Why are you mad?
Who hurt you?
- There's this huge pause.
Question for you,
what happened in your gut when you heard Tyson ask that?
For me, it was visceral.
I could feel the whole mood change.
And if you were Burr, what would you do?
Would you talk about it?
In that pause, I imagine that Burr
is doing some calculations about the potential costs
of saying more.
There are costs and rewards to self-disclosure.
One obvious risk on a public podcast is what happens
when you name names?
I don't think I would name names.
What would you do?
Burr is always really quick on his feet
and he does some clever redirection.
It goes by so fast,
but before he redirects, he says,
"Yeah, but that's what I just figured out."
A moment before this,
he said in the present tense.
- I'm trying to figure out, what is the cause of it?
- Then after Tyson pushes him, he says.
- Oh yeah, but that's what I just figured out.
- That means Tyson may be right,
behind that wall, Burr may know the root cause
of his temper.
He could've talked about it if he were ready to.
If Burr really had not figured anything out
about where his pain came from yet,
we'd say that that information
is still in another box, the unknown box
in the Johari Window.
That's the box where he doesn't know,
nobody knows what's in there.
Either way, it was a powerful question.
And when I first watched this,
I asked myself that same question.
I'm like, "Wait, is Tyson right?
"If he asked me that, do I know this about myself?"
Burr deflects with humor.
He says, "But for years when I would yell at my phone,
"I thought I hated technology."
And he bounces the conversation back
into the open self window, in his comfort zone.
I use humor sometimes to deflect.
Do you ever do that yourself?
And then comes my second favorite moment,
Tyson knows Burr is deflecting
and he sort of lets him off the hook.
- No, you're not, you silly goose.
- No, you know what it is.
- And now we've all lived long enough
to hear Mike Tyson call Bill Burr a silly goose.
That was a gift for all of us.
All three of them then joke about what Burr really hates
is his phone.
Burr calls it an aggressive therapy session
using the good cop, bad cop approach.
Big picture, what would your advice be for Tyson?
Keep your own advice in mind.
Here's my suggestion for Tyson
or for you to help other people open up in real life.
Tyson is trying to push Burr to self-disclose,
but instead of pushing, one of the best ways
to create an opening for self-disclosure
is to first share something personal about yourself.
If Tyson had talked about his past
and the source of his pain,
it would have made it much more likely
that Bill Burr would have reciprocated voluntarily
and opened up more about himself.
That's usually the way it works,
self-disclosure and then reciprocity.
When people talk about their problems,
it makes it much more comfortable
to talk about our problems.
It's a fair exchange.
Either way, it was still
an incredibly interesting moment to watch.
Question for you now.
What advice would you give Tyson as an interviewer
in this situation?
And another question.
By the end of this clip,
if you were any of the guys in the room
in this conversation, just the way it played out,
do you think that would make you feel closer to them
in some way or not?
And what else did I miss that I should've mentioned?
I'll put a link to the original podcast below.
Let me know who else I should react to?
Until next time, God bless, and I will see you soon.