Tonight, breaking news.
Federal prosecutors have notified former
President Trump
that he is
now the target
of a criminal investigation in the Mar
a Lago documents case.
This is federal
prosecutors are wrapping up
their investigation
and a potential indictment
could come really at any time.
At this point,
we're also learning
that the DOJ is planning
on bringing a significant portion
of any charges in the case.
At a federal court in South Florida.
Now, that's
according to The Washington Post.
We're going to talk about more
about what that means in a moment.
I want to begin with Paula Reid OUTFRONT
with so much of this reporting.
What are you learning, Paula?
Well, Erin,
we've learned that former
President Trump has been informed
that he is the target
of a federal investigation
into the possible
mishandling of classified documents.
Now, this is a sign
that prosecutors could be moving
closer to possibly
indicting the former president.
We are told that his legal team
was informed
via a target letter that he is
now the focus of this investigation.
Multiple sources have learned
about the letter
having it described to them,
though none of our sources
have directly
or personally seen this letter.
But really, crystallizes
the fact that the special counsel,
Jack Smith, in
this investigation is focused
on former President Trump
and not just the people around him.
Usually,
if you are the recipient
of a target letter,
it means that you have the opportunity
if you would like
to go before a grand jury.
Now, it's unclear
if the former president
would do that, though
it does seem unlikely
that his legal team would advise that.
It's also something
that he was offered up
in Manhattan
in the recent civil case and opted
not to do that.
Now, we know his attorneys met
with the Justice Department earlier
this week
to discuss
what they believe
are problems with this case.
And as we know, former
President Trump has repeatedly said
that he has done nothing wrong.
So you're also getting
some breaking details,
I know, Paula, about Steve Bannon
and the other investigation
about January six. What's that?
That's right.
And the special counsel's
other investigation into January six.
We've learned that former White House
adviser and longtime
Trump ally
Steve Bannon has been subpoenaed
to testify, though it's unclear
how cooperative a witness he will be.
Of course,
he was recently convicted
for being in contempt of Congress.
He's facing a potential prison
sentence there.
So it's unclear
if he's going to play ball.
It's a little different
with the federal investigation
but he also has the opportunity,
if he so chooses, to plead the Fifth.
But this is, of course,
a significant witness for them to call.
We've learned in terms
of a more cooperative witness
our colleague Zach Cohen
and I broke the story today
that those investigators
in the January six investigation
also recently spoke with Alyssa Farah
Griffith.
She is, of course, a top communications
advisor in the Trump White House.
She was brought on by Mark Meadows.
And it's interesting,
she just had an interview
with investigators.
She didn't go before the grand jury.
But one of the things we learned
is that investigators are very interested
in Trump's state of mind.
They had a lot of questions
about that specifically, Erin.
They wanted to know
whether Trump
really believed some of the lies
that he was pushing in and around
January six. So notable.
That's what
they're asking about right now.
But also a sign, Erin, that
the January 6th investigation
is perhaps not as far along
as the classified documents probe.
All right, Paul.
And obviously, that is a big question
when these
when these come, if they come together
and those details could mean so much.
Thank you very much.
And of course, I should note, Elizabeth,
Erin Griffin, as Paul is reporting.
Speaking to prosecutors,
obviously choosing to do so
and do so forthrightly,
as she always does
in her role, as you see her here
so frequently as a contributor All right.
OUTFRONT now, Stephanie Grisham, former
Trump White House press secretary,
John Sale, former assistant special
Watergate prosecutor
and former FDNY assistant attorney.
He turned down an opportunity
to represent Trump
and Ryan Goodman,
the former special counsel
at the Department of Defense.
So thanks very much to all of you.
Ryan, let me start
just with the very basics here.
Trump being informed
that he's a target of the investigation.
Obviously, it's a
I know people are saying,
okay, sure, we knew that.
But but we didn't know that formally
and he didn't know that formally.
How significant
is this step procedurally?
Well, at some level it's obvious
because we've all thought
that that is the case.
And it's the reason, Doctor,
for having a special counsel,
because he was investigating
matters at the heart of Donald Trump.
But it was never stated explicitly
because it could just be that
he thinks that there's
criminal conduct of classified documents
being at Mar a Lago.
But who is the target? Right.
The timing of it is suspicious,
the fact that he is
being told that he is the target
at the end of the investigation.
There's no way he wants to hear that
or his defense counsel
wants to hear that.
It does suggest
and indictment
is kind of coming down the pike
for that to be told to him at this stage.
And it is told to him
right before the meeting
between his lawyers
and the Justice Department.
So maybe they just wanted to alert him
When your lawyers
come here to meet with us,
you should know that.
So they know at least by Monday.
All right.
So, John,
where do you think we are
in terms of an indictment or indictments
The special counsel is appointed
pursuant to certain regulations,
and he is subject to the policies
and procedures
of the Department of Justice.
And there
is something called the Justice Manual.
It's a book every assisted U.S.
attorney has it.
And it says
if somebody is a target,
you usually it flies their counsel
maybe you send them a target letter.
And any good lawyers
when they receive that,
will ask for an opportunity for a meeting
and will present their arguments.
Why the indictment should not be brought.
And in this case, apparently,
they also have grievances,
what they claim
of prosecutorial misconduct. Right.
And I think we can assume
that the Department
of the special counsel
has rejected those arguments.
Now, remember,
it still has to go
to the attorney general.
It's ultimately
McCollum can approve a recommendation
or disapprove of it.
But it seems like the grand jury,
particularly in Florida, is moving ahead.
So it doesn't look like that
they're closing up shop and saying,
no, not today.
It looks like they are All right.
Well, I'll tell you what a target means.
It means we believe
there is sufficient evidence
by which a jury could find you guilty
beyond a reasonable doubt.
Beyond a reasonable doubt.
Important to mention, the standard there.
All right.
So, Stephanie,
Trump is posting on social media.
No one has told me I'm being indicted.
Of course, the reporting is otherwise.
What do you make
of how he's handling it?
Well, it's typical Trump, right?
He's going to try
to get ahead of the story
and deny anything.
What I thought was interesting
was that he just listed
all of the things he's been accused of,
which obviously in communications, 101,
you just quit listing the negatives.
He continued to do that.
And it really
it hit me
that you know, I'm reading it all.
And I thought,
again, no sane
person is going to continue
to see
all of these issues he's having
and think it's a big conspiracy.
So, Ryan,
what do you make of it,
suggesting that
that by the timing
of what you're seeing here
and the testimony
still occurring in the south
south Florida
grand jury,
that that maybe
the January 6th portion of
this is lagging
the classified documents,
that they don't come all together.
How do you see it that way
and how does that play out then?
Definitely see it that way.
It seems as if by all accounts,
all reports the Mar a Lago
classified documents
investigation is about to wrap up.
Mm hmm.
Unclear whether, though.
And then just to be clear
whether that's just obstruction
or also espionage,
all of that would go in in that Mar
a Lago, right?
Okay.
In that one bucket,
we don't know what the charges are,
but that's not. Okay, then.
Then the idea that today
we find out
that the special counsel has subpoenaed
Steve Bannon only recently.
It's a little shocking
that that would be this late in the game.
The January six
congressional committee
identified Steve Bannon as central
to their investigation.
So that seems like that's pretty late.
Why is that happening now?
It does seem as though
there's a lot more time on the clock
for that investigation
to reach its conclusion,
whatever that conclusion will be.
Okay.
So, John,
the federal grand jury,
as I mentioned in South Florida,
obviously, you live there.
You practiced law there. You know this.
So The Washington Post is reporting that
a significant amount of charges
in the documents case, again,
the Mar
a Lago silo that we're talking about
would be brought in Florida.
What does that say to you?
And is that better for Trump
or worse for Trump
than it coming out of the Washington?
Well, this may surprise you,
but I think it's better for Trump.
The national media is talking about that.
This case,
if it's indicted
itself, will be returned
in Miami-Dade County,
where the demographics
may not be so favorable to Trump.
Well, it
it will not be in Miami-Dade County.
Our chief judge
issued an order
impaneling a grand jury
routine that it's it's not a Trump
grand jury. It's another grand jury.
And it's sitting in Miami-Dade,
but it's a Palm Beach County grand jury.
And they don't sit in Palm Beach
because since COVID is no safe room
for them to sit in.
So this will actually be,
if it's indicted, will be a Palm
Beach County case
where the demographics are a lot
better for Donald Trump.
I need to say one thing, though.
I always try to do this.
The Constitution
that he said he might suspend,
we'll protect him
and it should protect him.
And he we should all remember
he's presumed innocent.
Now, and if he's indicted,
he remains presumed innocent.
And it's the government
who has to prove him guilty.
And the burden of proof is. Absolutely.
And any of these defenses,
whether the documents are classified,
if they're not
prosecutorial misconduct,
they can all be aired out
if he's indicted. So I think
a fair
trial is all we can expect at all.
And we should all, as you point
out, hope for. Right.
That the whole point here
is the rule of law
and the Constitution upholding it.
And we need to renounce his rhetoric,
which might be a call to violence.
Everybody has to say we don't want that.
He has a right to free speech,
but not to incite violence.
Stephanie, obviously, you know,
we can only imagine how he will respond
when this happens.
I guess if as anticipated, it
likely happens.
I know you spoke to investigators
about a year ago in the January six case,
which as Ryan is pointing
out, seems to be moving more slowly here
than the documents case.
So that's my question.
Have you spoken to prosecutors
about the Mar a
Lago documents case at all?
Yes, I have
voluntarily cooperated
with that investigation.
All right.
So so now
now, Ryan, just to make this clear,
if she Stephany saying
she's she's also testified in that one.
Where do you think those majority
of the charges were?
Understanding will come
from South Florida.
Okay. What does that mean for espionage?
Is the espionage portion,
if it is included, come from Washington?
So they could go either way.
They could do
what the Justice Department did
with Paul Manafort
divided up into two jurisdictions.
So they could be big charges
in D.C., big charges in Florida.
Or it sounds like
maybe the center of gravity
is going to be in Florida.
The Espionage Act could be in Florida,
because what is the Espionage Act
willfully retaining the documents?
Where did he retain them? Right. Right.
I understand.
And Stephanie,
what was your experience
with those prosecutors?
How did they their demeanor,
their professionalism?
Is there anything you can share?
I can't share much about
what what was discussed.
Obviously, I want to
I agree with your guest
that everybody's innocent
until proven guilty.
So I want to respect the legal process
and Donald Trump.
But I can say
that they were very professional
and they were very evenhanded.
And, you know,
I spoke to them at length
for quite a while.
All right.
Well, thank you very much, all of you.
Appreciate your time.