Hello everyone and welcome back to the Keep productive YouTube channel today
I am with tiago for our final video our final video all about Notion
so it's gonna be quite an interesting chat and we've both had good touch points with the Notion and
We're going to be diving into the sort of our thoughts on the application in just a short round out
yeah, so notion obviously and Notion is
Something that we both sort of discovered and you have mentioned it a little bit
Before on the blog, right?
Obviously, we've had a chat about it. What are your current thoughts on the obligation? Mmm. Yeah, I have a lot
Yeah
so I
Think the way that people are thinking about notion is kind of wrong
okay, why is that loan so
Notion has partially on its own
You know itself kind of framed itself as a note-taking app
Yeah, right and other many other people have framed it as a note-taking app, and I think a big reason for that
Is that note-taking is sort of easy to sell? It's easy to kind of explain?
and I'm sure part of it is also taking advantage of
Which is a smart move of some of the the user dissatisfaction of Evernote
some of the people that is and there's a lot of them that aren't
Kind of happy with the product and there's been a little bit of an exodus
I think I know kinda notion built like an automated Evernote importer, which I thought was a very very direct move
But I think from my experiences notion, it is not a note-taking app at all
You know the keep yeah. Yeah, so the honda they
So I think it is much more related to
It really is attacking google docs
much closer to Google Docs, Google
Docs you know originally was attacking Microsoft work, so they were just like word processing but now in the cloud, right?
But if you look at the way that people use Google Docs meant much of the time it's something like a dashboard, right?
It's not you're not like writing like no holes and like long things of text like you would in word processing you're creating something
That's a little more permanent, right? It has say links to all your stewar that the photos you're using for an event or it has
You know the details for a project or you're using it as a team to-do list or something like that
Right and I think notion is actually serving that market basically people who are using Google Docs
Kind of in a head in a hack and a sort of hacking it
And they're really I don't know even know what you would call this market like the productivity dashboard markets or the productivity
Documentation market much of the market, right? That's all. Yes. It's yeah, it's
It's like what does that even mean? Would you have to invent? Maybe you should invent the term that's popularized
yeah, I won't try but the way the I see is like I feel like it's gonna be
this stepping stone to AI
What do you think so?
Well, because we've like traditionally done stuff in like a really structured way
Whereas we've been introduced to this modular productivity where you can I build whatever you want
But once stay and we're not once notion out, but once in say five ten years
There's our automation element in AI element that understands what you do during a day then that dashboard
Then becomes the system that's just like I don't know. I may be thinking a bit too far ahead
No, I like it. I mean, I think that's that's what all these apps are are sort of
Preparing for or they should be preparing for is machine learning
It's gonna is gonna wash over this this industry like a tidal wave
Yeah
it really likes so much of what we do like we just did our things videos so much you like this little like
Tagging tagging tagging and then filing filing finally and then like your I as a human
Really shouldn't be doing I should not be responsible for that
I currently have to be because no like we don't yet have an algorithm that can understand what those things mean
Um, but I think that's gonna that's AI is definitely changed a lot. Um,
but but I think what that like wouldn't that like
because I with I say this I own Co of productivity right like
We're obsessed with the way that we do stuff will not totally erase that
Well for some of us
Yeah
Hopefully not you and me hopefully not you and me
I mean, I think what's gonna happen is what's always happened is we're gonna have to elevate our
You know work on higher order more complex more creative things
Yeah, I mean in the old days the productivity experts were like how to oil the keys on your typewriter
Yeah, you know that was productivity tips probably in 1912 in the 1920s
Today we're talking more about your project list you how to define goals
You know things like this in the future
It's gonna be like how to design your personal a I assisted algorithm and customize it for your own workflow
Yeah, you just have to be very nice to it and speak really politely
And we but but like going back to notion like it
What do you think of it? Like do you do you rate it do you like actually?
Recommend it these days to people what because because that obviously is starting to sort of fall into the second brain category slowly, right?
Yeah, it is
I'm slowly learning about it, you know watching videos here and there I have a small group of sort of people and watching
You're one of them. There's like Memorial Dre. There's um a
Few of the other names are escaping me
but they actually I have a slack work space for 40 labs and
They created a channel called notion only for talking about notion and it's like the most active Channel
Okay
Jump in there you can jump in there
Yeah, but uh, but basically they are getting they all taken my course. They're getting my ideas and applying them to notion
Yeah, and so for now I'm just letting them do that and kind of waiting to see if anything really remarkable emerges
But and if it does then I'll just all integrate it somehow like this is how this is how the ecosystem works
You know, we all kind of watch each other and borrow things from each other
In the future. I may do like a sometimes
I do special editions of building a second brain where I teach people to build their second brain in X
I've done that in the past with Microsoft OneNote
But I might do that with notion
So, I don't know I'm keeping an open mind, but for now I'm focused on just really not like note-taking itself
Which to me? The key criteria is effortless capture
Mmm, right the very essence of notes is that it's not like this database entry
You're just whipping out a little note writing is just something they are very casual very informally
Whatever it is, and then just sitting and I save, you know a dozen notes
Actually know a few dozen notes a week, you know, and notion doesn't seem enough tonight
Don't know where those notes will end up for months or years
They go into my into different notebooks and then over time I figure out where they belong
And notion doesn't seem like that sort of effortless quick capture. It seems like it's significantly less less emphasized
Yeah the moment it's lacking
It's not really evident quality web clip it doesn't have the offline abilities
It doesn't have email capture or forwarding it does lack those things and that's where I think for like hardcore productivity
people
In the in the community, that's why a lot of people aren't fully moving over
but when they do add them and
Automations come like zapier integrations in it and all that. I think that's gonna where it goes a bit crazy
Yeah
Definitely. Yeah, and you got to you got to go to the offices and meet the team
I mean, I think they Rock and really though it's lunch. We poppin would be agree on that, right? Oh
Yeah, super nice people. I met up with the their new head of actually not really new anymore
But I'm their head of marketing Camille. She was very nice and had lunch with them and and chatted productivity
it's it's very it's very weird and funny that you know this food there's only like
20 of them or so and we're sitting in this like warehouse office in the mission in San Francisco
It's like there's like a lot of people using the thing that is being built in this very room. Yeah. Yeah
No, that's that's a good thing because I you look over the screens and it's all like motion
but what I quite like, I think I don't like
Once people get it
Like I've seen people just like use in such amazing ways. And it just may I'm totally missed out on like
pre Avenue
but when sort of
By at least soar evident ever it was being used in so many different ways that people were like wow
This is incredible. And I think that's this era and I'm excited to see where it goes
You think oh, yeah, I mean and there's no doubt that notion. Is that the new hot kid on the block?
Yeah, and I think if they you know, they continue to execute like they've been executing
They have a a very clear shot at being the dominant idea management platform like no question. Um,
and the question the question is
You know, I I have a number of doubts on this all in one productivity platform idea
Yeah
I don't think as you as you do more with
With productivity and your work gets more complex you tend to use more tools not less
Yeah, and I don't know if that framing is gonna be is gonna be the best and of course there's gonna be challenges
You know, like the more successful notion is the more that the big tech companies new startups
Evernote and the established ones are gonna I've em and start to borrow ideas, you know
None of this happens in a vacuum. They all kind of
Influence each other. So I'm just excited that I'm not building a tool I can just sit back
Yes
One final question before we sign off the book a week
Evan a where do you think it's going and
Because they've least been spending a lot of time
trying to develop features behind the scenes and really sitting sort of good last ability again and
When he's in a year's time
Yeah, I I sat down recently recently with me in I met up with in at the their offices
There's no like secret knowledge. I have no, you know advanced knowledge of anything
but
You know, they're really focused on the fundamentals of the platform, which if you were listening to to the video, you'll know
Is for me the most essential thing, is that the core user experience?
That's one reason that there's not a ton of new features on a lot of sort of advancements
And I like the ian is very product centric. He's very in the innards of the products
Into the technology and the implementation it's how it actually works
Which I think is critical. So I have a lot of confidence that they're gonna merge. They have a great culture
incredible user base
An incredible community of certified consultants and content creators. I'm one of them
And those things don't go away so easily I wouldn't I really wouldn't count Evernote out
Yeah, that's it. I'm all say one of them too. But I do more scaremongering than I do. So
I the thing is I realized in the last couple months
I definitely need to do more like solid videos on how to use everything because it is great and like you said is a reliable
Brilliant netiquette, so it's good news
No, you know it takes so many years for a tool to become mainstream
Like from the time you first launched to actually being something that you know
the people that listened to your channel that
Are in my audience tend to be super early adopters people who are willing to try something. That is barely, you know working
Unproven unvalidated. I work a lot with you know, like a big insurance company in like Milwaukee
Right there. They're years away from adopting anything like notion, right? They're there
It's like you you have to step back a little bit from your bubble sometimes and realize that most people don't obsess about technology 24/7
And that's why I think I'd rather stick to the cannot an early adopter
Paradoxically when it comes to productivity apps
I went the last generation that is completely figured out and completely mature and I'll wait until the
Generation is mature before moving to it
Oh, I'll do that. I'll do the searching and over fallback, right?
nice
Yeah, okay, when can everyone find it because we've done all three videos. We've wee folk. We've spent an hour talking. It's been great and
What can people find you after the truth?
I'm most active on twitter at forte labs. That's also my website Portela SEO
And there you can find
Links to my course building a second brain
Which is building a second brain calm
That's really my main focus is helping people use these tools to not just be you know, more productive
but to build a almost literal second brain
With all the incredible benefits that entails so I encourage them to reach out to me
Thank you
Honestly for taking the time is being really great, and I'm very excited to release you. So and I think people really take
say
Yeah head on with your day and I'll talk to you soon. Yeah
It's been really really good talking to you friend Jessica. I really had a good time meeting. All right, I'll see you soon. Yeah
Okay