- [Will] When was the last time you thought about
the concept of throwing in the towel?
- [Seth] Well, as a serial quitter,
I have certainly thought about it.
I guess I haven't really thought about
the actual physical act.
But I do like to bail.
- The older you get, the better and better you realize
bailing as a concept just rules.
- Absolutely. Fuckin' love to quit.
I never regret it.
- And honestly, over the years
I've really identified that in you
and I really find that as one of your strong suits,
and that's kinda why I wanted to talk to you about this.
- I'm not getting fired, right?
- You're not getting fired,
but I do think you should quit this job.
Additionally, the phrase "to throw in the towel,"
I primarily forget that it ties back to sports
and ties back to boxing in particular.
- Yeah, am I correct in that it's just
if you're a fighter and your corner guy or whatever
thinks that you're in too bad shape to continue
that they literally throw in the towel
that they had been using to treat you before?
- Bingo.
If they see you wobblin' in the middle of the round,
the ref's not stopping it
and they think that the ref should,
throw in the towel, fight's over.
- Not the most aerodynamic thing in the world.
I'm just worried, you know, 'cause we're talking about
something that's a bit of an emergency.
I worry that were I the corner guy,
I would get a little tense in the moment.
And you know, there's my fighter out there,
unconscious and woozy,
and they really need to get outta here.
And I'm like throwing the towel
but it keeps blowing back into my face.
And then the ref is like,
"Sorry, you didn't throw it in. Keeps going out."
- "Sorry, this arena is famously windy."
- Yeah.
You know how they often do boxing matches and UFC fights
in places with a really strong cross-breeze?
- Yup, yup. I think that's a fair concern.
But the thing I was surprised to learn,
the Nevada Athletic Commission,
in their mixed martial arts section of fouls,
has Foul 31: throwing in the towel during competition.
Like, it is considered a foul. Not in every commission.
A lot of commissions have removed this language.
That is a whole 'nother Weird Rules.
But for our purposes,
for a while everywhere, it was illegal,
quote-unquote "illegal," to throw in the towel.
- Right, so that's sort of a...
By throwing in the towel, you are breaking a rule,
but you're doing it on purpose
because you're trying to end the match.
You're trying to get penalized into game over.
- In theory, but the punishment
is up to the referee's discretion for this foul.
- [Seth] So they don't have to end the match.
- The referee doesn't have to end the match.
The referee could choose to disqualify the fighter
whose corner threw in the towel.
The referee could also just dock a point.
- Oh, man, that'd be cruel.
Like, "Nope, doesn't need it."
Do they have backup towels just in case?
- That's the worst-case scenario.
You lose a point and you lose your towel
and you're just so wet the rest of the fight.
Going back to this being like an idiom,
"throwing in the towel,"
the use of language in rule books is extremely interesting,
considering what we think of as a foul
and therefore the repercussions of a foul.
In this scenario,
it feels very unique in that the punishment
could be exactly what the corner was trying to accomplish.
- Yeah, framing it as punishment
almost makes it sound like the person in the corner
might be like whoop-whoop-whoop-whoop-whoop
and accidentally slip and chuck the towel into the ring.
And then they're like, "Oh, well, you're disqualified."
He's like, "No! I just, like, lost track of the towel.
It was so slippery."
- I mean, you bring up literal insult to injury
with the other outcome of your corner throws in the towel
because they think you're just getting pummeled.
- What's the thinking there?
Is the ref like, "He's fine.
Dock a point and let him keep getting battered
about the head and face in there."
- So I think you hit on exactly why
most commissions have removed this language.
- Okay. - They want the fight
to be decided by one of the three people that's in the ring.
- Mm-hmm.
- Either of the fighters or the referee.
It's the referee's job to say
this person is so worse for wear
that the fight cannot go on. - Mm-hmm.
I imagine, as with all boxing things,
especially in the state of Nevada,
that gambling plays into this.
Where it's like here is now a fourth and fifth person
who could say, "At this exact moment, the fight will end.
I have no ulterior motive, I've just thrown in the towel."
- It feels like a safe assumption.
- And maybe they're trying to prevent anyone
from throwing in the towel.
Like someone in the crowd, you know,
has bet a certain fighter to win,
and they're like, "All right, let's cut it short.
We got exactly what we need."
Boom, Kobe, throw the towel in and end that thing.
- So the reason this was an MMA rule is because the MMA
inherited so many of their rules from boxing.
But the act of throwing in a towel,
I think it's a unique idea
because there's a few huge differences in boxing and MMA
that it makes it more understandable
as to why it is a much rarer event in MMA
to get a corner stoppage.
- Yeah, I mean, listen, I'm not an expert
or even really much of a fan of either sport,
but am I correct in surmising that fights can continue
with someone in worse shape in the UFC
than they can in any normal boxing competition?
- That's a big part of it.
There's kind of the mentality
of a fight can turn at any moment.
I think the best example of that
that most MMA fans would immediately jump to
is Cheick Kongo vs. Pat Barry.
I mean, you can clearly see Cheick Kongo
is knocked out multiple times over.
You see him wobbling, you seem him...
Like, it looks terrible.
- [Seth] Yeah. Ugh.
- [Will] And then it very, very quickly
becomes terrible for Pat Barry instead.
- [Seth] Ooh. Oh my gosh!
Yeah, like, was he acting?
- That is like the greatest comeback in MMA history.
I don't know. Comments, you can yell at me all you want.
- Best one I've seen.
- Best one Seth's seen, so that's number one with a bullet.
There's a bit of the mindset where it's like,
okay, well, if a corner threw in a towel,
then Kongo would've missed out on winning this fight.
He would've missed out on a payday.
There's always a chance somebody could come back
and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.
Like, that feels extremely MMA.
Boxing, on the other hand,
there's obviously plenty of risk for injury.
Not to downplay that at all. - So I've heard.
- I think one of the big differences
is back in the day, a boxer would have, you know,
50 amateur fights and then 30 professional fights,
and you could fight once every two, three weeks.
- So maybe you throw in the towel just like,
"Eh, not really feeling this one.
I got a bloody nose and dinner plans, so...
Let's cut this."
When we're talking about health and consciousness
and potentially life and death,
leaving that signal of,
"Hey, we need to stop hitting this guy,"
in the hands of a famously non-aerodynamic projectile,
as opposed to, I don't know, a whistle,
or like a button. - Sure.
- Something that's just gonna very clearly and distinctly
indicate something that feels perilous.
- The other reality is if a corner wants to stop a fight,
they can always jump in the ring.
- Oh, for real? - That is the easiest way
to ensure a disqualification of your fighter.
- Just get in there?
- Just get in, just climb up on top.
If they don't see you by then, you jump in
and the ref will call it pretty quick then.
- But you need to be very, like...
You need to go in with a clear signal,
like, "I'm not participating, don't also hit me.
This is not a tag team situation."
- Yeah, you could show that you mean no harm
by, I don't know, taping up your wrists
so it's clear you can't really use your hands
if they're all taped up.
- Yeah, and then maybe put a nice, soft,
padded glove on top of that,
just so you don't accidentally hit somebody.
- Clear that you're not there to choke.
- Yeah, and you don't wanna lose a tooth,
so put in a mouth guard maybe.
- [Will] You probably want to draw attention
with some sort of music that denotes your entrance.
- And in case you need to climb anywhere, bring a ladder.
- Anyway. - Do you wanna play a game?
- Yeah, sure, Jigsaw.
- Do you wanna play show and tell: show your coolest towel?
- Yes, as long as you go first.
- Okay, ready?
- Oh, fuck yeah.
- Space Jam towel!
I would never throw that in.
If you out there in a boxing match
and this was the only towel I had,
I would be like, "Sorry, buddy.
You're getting your ass kicked, but I need this towel."
- That's a good towel.
- Thank you. It's called Soft Michael.
- Okay. - In my family.
- It's a less cool towel.