When it's bad, I want to kill them.
So you get like, let's say, bloggers and vloggers are bigger than the publications, the mighty
publications, you know, your, you know, Rolling Stone, New Yorker, whatever have you,
you know, I mean, how does that affect you guys? As far as navigating through that climate?
Well there's a lot more people have a go at you online every time you release something. Yeah.
Someone that's got 600 followers that think they're Wordsworth and they're having a go
at you on Twitter
Compliments are almost as damaging to me. Because obviously there's this part of you, even
if it's tiny, that wants to be liked, you know, like that wants approval.
Yeah.
And so that's really dangerous to be like, oh, maybe I should do more of that because
people like it. Really dangerous.
Very true. It attaches to subconscious doesn't it? It can do, yeah.
When it's bad, I want to kill them
And they can drill it.
Or at least you know, at least verbally, say, Okay, I'll show you.
Sometimes I get the impression
though, that to look at the other side of this sort of thing, the legitimate, quote,
unquote, which I never thought was legitimate, "music press", or press press or all of that,
for many years, when they had a lock on things, people had to swallow or read or watch stuff
they didn't really like, weren't really interested in and just kind of take it because that's
what's coming down from above. Yeah.
And now suddenly, people can support the weird s*** that they like. Yeah, you know, and
so there is so there's some truth in there. somewhere a weird kinda... I don't know, you
know, terrible common denominator or something.
There's no longer gatekeepers, I guess. No, no.
wide open,
Yeah it's wide open.
At the time that Chaka Khan was around, I actually played a gig, I played -
the first Rufus gig, they opened for the Stooges. Oh, yeah, the Whiskey A Go Go, you know, I
thought "the girl's good", you know.
But at the time, at the time that I was singing and admiring some people like that. I wouldn't, I
wouldn't dare to, you know, appropriate, what they did, but I think you can now because
people are more open-minded and crossing. Yeah, you don't have to wear certain things.
No,
I mean, it's kind of like I wouldn't, I could probably sing like that at a push, but it wouldn't
be right. It just wouldn't. Because it's not me, you know, and I spent so many years I'm
sure all of us have around this table, experimenting with stuff that probably isn't you, that
you could probably do, but doesn't really suit you, didn't really feel like you.
You don't feel fitted within it.
Do you listen to opera?
Because you can sing as good as that, Anna!
Thank you! Yes you do!
We can go to Italy together!
Please I would love that!
When I, when I sing I always wish that I could sing like you. Like that would be my dream.
To get down. I don't know.
how many cigarettes I'm gonna have to smoke. I'm trying. Yeah.
I don't know if you like the Divine Comedy? Yeah, yeah,
I like him a lot. And I saw he he did a piece for the Irish Times. And the headline was
Modern Times Are Rubbish. Laid it right out there. But I really like... he can
do, he can sing like National Express. You know that one by him? Yeah, he's got he's
got songs where he sounds, somewhere between Lulu and Tom Jones. You know? Yeah. Again,
it's perfect. It's perfect. And the lyrics are sensible, too.
And I think he's doing that because he just, well, this was better anyway, and it All it
resolved, there was resolution in a lot of the older songs, you know?
I was talking to... I correspond with a guy named Bill Callahan who's a good American, kind of
Fred Neil cowboy type of writer. And just saying, you know him, what do you think? Because
there's so many things don't resolve anymore. You know, the music. It just kind of like,
Oh, I like this part that goes, beep, beep, beep beep Oh, yeah, sure. Oh, wow, that's really
great. And then, you know, and then it's gone, you know. But the times don't resolve either.
That's the thing. And then he mentioned that he was hearing it with the newer hip hop,
as you're getting more and more ambient. Yeah. And I started thinking about, you know, Zambian
music way back. And that's a maybe everything is just going to goes into one big spray.
I don't know. You know, yeah, there's a, there's a trend toward just
general ambience. Yeah, there is. That's one side of the spectrum. And there's this other
side of the spectrum where you get kind of a genre crosser somebody who like, like, does
like a random playlist, you know, I mean, in their music, like, you know, one thing's
rock. Next thing is hip hop. Next thing is this and that, you know, you get this kind
of thing going on. What do you think about that? Because I do that. So if you want to
go ahead and nail me, now's the time baby mail me. Yeah. But what do you think about
Nail me. Yeah. But what do you think about all that kind of thing?
I think there's something about - I'm not saying this your reasons - but flexing your musical muscles?
Yeah, you know, showing I can do this. And I can do that. And I can do that. And I know
that I have sort of had that thought before about wanting to do that. And I feel like
as long as there's something tying everything together, it's like Grace Jones, like any,
any song she would sing on, like literally anything, it would sound like a Grace Jones
track because her voice is so distinct. So I feel like as long as you have that, then that's, that's all that matters.
I think so.
I mean, I mean, cuz when people listen to their podcasts and stuff like that, they don't
listen to one artist. They don't listen to one genre, you know, and so it's only natural
that an artist would probably come about that's quite random, you know, within their
presentation. And your a genre crosser yourself, Iggy.
I do a little bit, it's for the reason that the Anna just said, I
want to see if I could do it, Gee do I always have to be the guy who sings like Bugs Bunny?
That's what - I was rehearsing Raw Power with the Stooges in the in a disused club here.
There were some workman good English workmen working on the place, you know, trying
to refurbish it, I think it was Talk Of The Town. Okay. And then after the first rehearsal
was over, then the second day I came in, and they went, Oy look, here comes Bugs Bunny.
You know, so you want to try different things just because you're, Gee, wouldn't it
be great if I could do this or that and, but I think that's different than I think though,
some of the artists you're talking about. There are certain, you know, popular artists
who have producers and a whole marketing staff, that bring the... we'll refract a little
bit of this and a little bit of that, and then we get the singer to do it with the rapper
and the rapper to do it with the singer. Yes. I guess in a way that's sort of like
the next step after when sampling came in really big. You know, then no, like, like,
for instance, Tupac sampled a killer, killer track from Chris Stainton band. And Joe Cocker
called Woman to Woman. You know that track? Oh, it's a killer. It's one of the best pieces
of British RnB that's ever been done by proper British outfit. Yeah, and it's that doo doo
doo doo, doo doo doo doo doo doo, doo. And they just lifted it for Tupac and, you know,
you could do that for a while. But I think the archaeological pit might be
thinning out now a bit.
Hence your comment about ambience. Yeah, maybe. I think it's just softer, isn't it?
Yeah, doesn't demand so much from you maybe?
I don't know. I think that's still there. There's a whole wave of contemporary rappers
that are still doing the kind of mid 90s Golden Era stuff. Yeah. But it's kind of especially
sort of Atlanta way. Rappers down there, have you know, come up with Trap?
And, you know, that's obviously been, which is kind of coming out like UGK and all that
kind of stuff. Yeah. I'm from Texas, so I feel you. Right. Okay. Yeah,
initially I was a bit not getting it and but after a while, just just properly slid into
it, it's really good.
Well, you hear the earlier elements of it with like DJ Screw. Right ok.
I mean the way he would chop stuff, you can hear that you can hear all that element in Trap.
I mean, that's... And the ambient thing. I mean, like Well, I mean, hip hop has always
been about what sound effects that go on in the city. Teah, sure. You can
definitely understand why it's going over there. Plus, the conformity of such you hear
like, I don't know, even listen to dance music. I mean, it's a four, four. It's like you watch
these people at raves. It's like, Hey, you know, you're marching, right? You're marching bro!
Like, you know, so yeah, you know, no, I hear that. They queued me for Question 2
but we're already in it. So you know, as far as the genre crossing and things like
that. And you I mean, you were talking earlier, like he was doing in the r&b thing and all
this kind of stuff, you cross genres as well. Do you think you're gonna do album that shows
all that kind of stuff on a massive scale? You know, I
don't know.
I don't know. Spoken like a true artist. Yeah.
I just don't know. Cause then. You think I'm board with that, Or I've done that. Um, yeah.
Like, it's always like, you go back and do something else. Yeah, I don't even know what
else I'm gonna do. You know, it's just, I've got a couple of demos at home that Andrew sent.
But yeah, you know, who knows, you know, what I mean.
Man what you do already rocks, the stadium, to me - just two cats. Two, it rocks the
stadium? I mean, what's the science behind that? Do you think? Like, I know, that's broad.
But I mean... Just a big (gesture) Yes. Because at the time, you had X Factor and everything
else and around 2012 / 2011 Well, from about sort of mid noughties upwards 2006 you can
even take it back to the year 2000 it's just started getting a bit dry - music for me. Nothing was
happening. Yeah. And that rolled on and on and guitar music in England was completely
just bit stale, you know. And, and then I don't know really, I just got into more into
hip hop into rap and got obsessed with rap. And particularly East Coast rap. And, and
wanting to emulate not emulate that. But wanting to follow that form. That that way of approaching
vocals - you know, for a singer I feel the Wu Tang Wu Tang in you. Definitely Wu Tang
And so and that so I studied that and try to do that but in my own accent but not sound
really crap. Yeah, my own English accent like some previous people. And that's what come
out and it sounded more punk. But then I started getting into old 80s punk again, you
know GBH, English Dogs. Yeah, just singles here. And now, you know, I'm not a big sort
of record buyer or anything.
And then you - the soundscapes and then you got, you're very theatrical and it's just like,
yeah, I mean, talk to us about it.
I mean, I guess I my first inspiration was more like classical music, classical. So I
always loved the idea of making the guitar sound like an orchestra or just seeing how
far you could take the expression of the guitar. And then also, I guess, with my voice, this
idea that the voice and the guitar can be almost one thing, and that they're responding
to each other. That was kind of the basis of it. And I guess this feeling of you know,
rawness mixed with reaching for something higher. I like the idea of the high and the
low and that they're almost the same thing. It's like - the best moments in life, have both
Oh, yeah. And I guess that's what I try and get across.
Yeah, that's great. I mean, I mean, like, and then Iggy your dynamics. They range
I mean, I'll try anything. Yeah. I mean, the patience but like you said, you talked about
the resolve earlier - like your stuff does resolve. I've noticed this and what's
the - why do you think... Nowadays, for me, I think why artists like myself, I can safely
say it's kind of afraid to stay that long, in a thing, you know what I mean? And
what's what's that all about, you think as far as, because there's a lot of us like that.
There's do realise from time to time but like a lot of what I do is anachronistic because
you've got to get like seven people in the same room with each with their little equipment
and everything and it's not efficient and blah, blah, blah. And that's it. It is. It
is not it doesn't ape but it's very related to some old forms that have turned to shit.
Yeah, you know, like, you know, whatever, you name it, especially the capital R 'Rock'
you know. So what I - I just try to think about, always try to think about the people in
front of me when I work, you know. The main thing, how am I gonna reach and connect
and get them involved in some way. As long as you've got that going on, then it really
doesn't matter if you're a little bit, you know, from yesteryear in the setup or whatever,
right? That's what I think, you know, but working with Noveller on this new record that
you did a lot of was more, more like what Anna was talking about, she plays full she's
a full orchestra with her guitar, and there's no backbeat, no real discernible chord change,
although there are chords used and, and that appealed to me, because I'm kind of sick of
the rock format, just plain old form, you know. There can still be good things that,
you know, you can reuse it or something, though. People Places Parties. Yeah, we've been covering.
That riff has been around for a while. It was in something very, that was
very sort of like an epic poem, or called Sister Ray by the Velvet Underground, you know,
and it's just this guy's very degenerate party. And there's a sailor sucking on his ding dong.
And, you know, and he's so stoned. He's not searching for his main line, because he couldn't
hit it sideways. So this is a real basic stuff here. And then a couple years later, a few
years after that, this band called Modern Lovers. Here's a nice young, clean kid. He's
from Massachusetts. He's not from New York, and he nicked a riff and wrote something called
Roadrunner. Roadrunner here that has a little more form. There's now something that approaches
it's not a chorus, but it's a like a hook, Road Runner, Road Runner, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, and going on about Massachusetts and being up all night Roadrunner road run,
that's your recurrent frame. And then you know, Sleaford Mods take that. And suddenly,
People Places Parties, it's like a combat, it's like a combination punch, you know, and
it it lends itself, sometimes something really, really simple, it doesn't even have to have
a note or it can have one note, if the timing enhances the timing of the riff, then you're
getting to what Anna was talking about, where two meld the voice and the guitar.
And suddenly you've got this propulsion going, so, you know, that's a sort of what
I've always tried to do as a vocalist is listen to what the musicians are doing. Think of
how can I enhance that? You know, we're all also sound okay, too, and, and then try to
name it. Naming is vital. vital in putting everything from these days, you know, there
are professional namers that they will name your product for you. Oh, really? Yeah, there
are guys out there, guys that make up like the names for the new drugs. Yeah, yeah. It's
horrible. Do you ever think who makes up like, you know, what's the one? The one
where you fly away like a butterfly. It used to be a Quaalude.
Oh, yeah. But
now it's like Lentaro or something.
Yeah, no. I don't know. I have no feel for commerciality...