SINCE TWO REPORTERS FOR "THE NEW YORK TIMES" BROKE OPEN ONE OF
THE MOST CONSEQUENCE STORIES OF
OUR TIME ABOUT SEXUAL HARASSMENT
CLAIMS AGAINST HARVEY WEINSTEIN
WHOSE TRIAL ON RAPE AND SEXUAL
ASSAULT CHARGES WILL BEGIN IN
JANUARY.
JANUARY. THAT STORY GALVANIZED THE "ME
TOO" MOVEMENT, REACHING DOZENS
OF MEN IN THE HIGHEST ECHELONS
OF POWER.
OF POWER. NOW THE TWO PULITZER
PRIZE-WINNING REPORTERS JODI
KANTOR AND MEGAN TWOHEY ARE
TELLING THEIR STORY AND THE
CHANGE THEY KICKED OFF IN A NEW
BOOK ENTITLED "SHE SAID."
THEY JOIN ME NOW.
CONGRATULATIONS ON THE
RECOGNITION THAT YOUR WAITING
HAS JUSTLY BEEN GIVEN.
BUT IN THIS BOOK YOU TELL OF A
JOURNEY.
JOURNEY. THIS IS NOT JUST REPORTING A
STORY.
STORY. THIS HAS INTRIGUE AND MYSTERY
AND THREATS AND CONFIDENTIAL
SOURCES.
SOURCES. TWO YEARS AHEAD OF THIS, TWO
YEARS FROM WHEN THIS FIRST
STARTED, WHAT HAS CHANGED IN
YOUR MIND?
YOUR MIND? WHAT IS DIFFERENT TODAY?
>> WELL, THERE IS NO QUESTION
THAT THIS STORY HELPED BREAK THE
SILENCE THAT HAD BASICALLY
GOVERNED HOLLYWOOD AND OTHER
INDUSTRIES IN WHICH WOMEN WERE
SCARED TO SPEAK OUT AND GO ON
THE RECORD THEIR ALLEGATIONS OF
SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND SEXUAL
ASSAULT.
ASSAULT. WE REALIZED OUR WEINSTEIN STORY,
THE FIRST WEINSTEIN STORY WAS
REALLY JUST THE BEGINNING.
WE HAD BEEN ABLE IN THE FIRST
STORY TO CONNECT SOME OF THE
DOTS OF HIS ALLEGED PREDATION
GOING BACK OVER THE YEARS AND
HOW IT WAS COVERED UP.
SINCE THEN WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO
PIECE TOGETHER SO MANY OTHER
ADDITIONAL PIECES OF THE PUZZLE.
THE MACHINERY THAT IS IN PLACE
TO SILENCE WOMEN AND TRY TO STOP
OUR INVESTIGATION, AND ALSO THE
WAY THAT INDIVIDUALS AND
INSTITUTIONS CAN BECOME
COMPLICIT IN ABUSE.
THAT’S SOMETHING THAT REALLY
GOES BEYOND THE WEINSTEIN STORY
TO ALL THESE, YOU KNOW, TO THIS
ISSUE AS IT PLAYS OUT ACROSS THE
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. >> LET ME ASK YOU, JODI, WHEN
PEOPLE SAY THAT BECAUSE OF "ME
TOO" WOMEN CAN MAKE
UNCORROBORATED CLAIMS AGAINST
MEN AND THEY ARE TAKEN
SERIOUSLY, YOUR REPORTING SHOWS
OTHERWISE, THAT THERE IS NO --
THAT’S NOT HOW THIS WENT DOWN?
>> WELL, THAT’S NOT HOW WE
OPERATE.
OPERATE. ONE OF THE THINGS WE EXPLAIN IN
THE BOOK IS EVERY ONE OF THOSE
ALLEGATIONS WE TALKED ABOUT HAS
TO BE VETTED, IT HAS TO BE
CORROBORATED.
CORROBORATED. WE WERE WRITING UNDER LEGAL
THREAT.
THREAT. I THINK YOU ARE ALSO TALKING
ABOUT SOMETHING MORE GENERAL
NOW, WHICH IS A FEAR THAT "ME
TOO" HAS SOMEHOW GONE TOO FAR.
WHAT MEGAN AND I HAVE SEEN IN
OUR REPORTING ITS THERE ARE THRE
QUESTIONS ABOUT ME MINI
QUESTIONS "ME TOO" THAT ARE
UNRESOLVED.
UNRESOLVED. WHAT KIND OF BEHAVIORS ARE UNDER
SCRUTINY?
SCRUTINY? IS THIS ABOUT SERIOUS CLAIMS OF
ASSAULT OR BAD JOKES, BRA
SNAPPING IN SCHOOL HALLWAYS?
NUMBER TWO, HOW DO WE EVALUATE
THESE CLAIMS?
THESE CLAIMS? WHAT ARE THE TOOLS WE USE?
WHAT’S THE POCESS WE USE FOR
FIGURING OUT THE TRUTH.
WHAT IS PUNISHMENT AND
ACCOUNTABILITY LOOK LIKE?
THIS THESE CONTROVERSIAL CASES
WHAT YOU OFTEN SEE IS THAT ALL
THREE OF THOSE QUESTIONS ARE
TORTUREOUSLY MIXED UP.
>> ARE THEY ANSWERABLE?
DO WE KNOW WHEN YOU GET A REPORT
OF SOMETHING THAT YOU NEED TO
PURSUE, DO YOU KNOW HOW TO
ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS?
>> WELL, SO WITH WE ARE ABLE TO
WALK READERS THROUGH IS THE WAY
THAT JOURNALISM WORKS.
AND SO THERE WAS -- I JUST GOT
MY -- I STARTED MY CAREER AT A
NEWSPAPER IN WISCONSIN AND MY
EDITOR HAD A SAYING ABOVE HIS
DESK, IF YOUR MOM TELLS YOU SHE
LOVES YOU, CHECK IT OUT, WHICH I
THINK APPLIES TO ALL TYPES OF
REPORTING AND INVESTIGATING.
I THINK PEOPLE CAN MISTAKENLY
THINK, ESPECIALLY IN THE "ME
TOO" ERA, IF A WOMAN COMES
FORWARD TO A NEWSPAPER WITH AN
ALLEGATION THAT THE NEWSPAPER
TURNS AROUND AND PUBLISHES IT.
WE ARE ABLE TO WALK READERS
THROUGH THE RIGOROUS AMOUNT OF
WORK REQUIRED TO GO TO PRINT
WITH A STORY LIKE THIS.
WE WERE ABLE TO BASICALLY AMASS
A FINANCIAL TRAIL OF PAYOFFS
THAT WEINSTEIN HAD BEEN ABLE TO,
THAT HE USED TO PAY OFF AND
SILENCE WOMEN OVER THE YEARS.
WE WERE ABLE TO EXTRACT INTERNAL
COMPANY RECORDS DOCUMENTING
COMPLAINTS AGAINST HIM, IN
ADDITION TO WOMEN GOING ON THE
RECORDS WITH THEIR STORIES AND
THE CORROBORATION WE USED IN
THOSE CASES.
THOSE CASES. SO WHAT YOU ARE ABLE TO SEE, AND
ALSO IN THE FINAL STRETCH THAT
WE GO TO WEINSTEIN HIMSELF TO
GIVE HIM ADEQUATE TIME TO
RESPOND.
RESPOND. >> WHO THEN CAME TO YOUR OFFICES
RIGHT AS THIS WAS ABOUT TO GO TO
PRESS?
PRESS? >> YES.
>> YES. WELL, HE GOT THIS STRANGE CALL
VERY CLOSE TO WHEN THE ARTICLE
WAS READY, AND IT SAID HARVEY
WEINSTEIN IS ON HIS WAY OVER.
AND WE SAID, WHAT?
HE IS COMING TO THE OFFICE?
AND HE WAS GOING TO SHOW UP
WITHIN A MATTER OF MINUTES.
AND ACTUALLY MY PARTNER MEGAN
DECIDED TO TAKE THE MEETING.
>> YEAH, HE BASICALLY BARGED
INTO "THE NEW YORK TIMES" WITH
MANY HIGH-POWERED LAWYERS BY HIS
SIDE, INCLUDING LISA BLOOM, THE
FEMINIST ATTORNEY, JUAN OF HIS
STAUNCHEST DEFENDERS.
STAUNCHEST DEFENDERS. HE CAME IN WITH FOLDERS THAT HE
HAD CONTAINING INFORMATION AND
PHOTOGRAPHS THAT HE THOUGHT HE
WOULD BE ABLE TO USE TO SMEAR
THE WOMAN PREPARING TO GO ON THE
RECORD FOR OUR STORESIES.
>> YOU MENTIONED YOU WERE ABLE
TO FOLLOW A FINANCIAL TRAIL.
YOU HAD A SOURCE THAT WAS
HELPING YOU WITH THAT?
>> WE DID.
ONE OF THE THINGS, IT’S SORT OF
A RELIEF TO FINALLY BE ABLE TO
TELL CERTAIN STORIES IN THIS
BOOK AND TO TAKE PEOPLE INTO
THESE EVENTS.
THESE EVENTS. ONE OF THE THINGS WE CAN FINALLY
DISCLOSE THERE WAS A KIND OF
DEEP THROAT FIGURE IN THE
WEINSTEIN INVESTIGATION AND HIS
NAME IS IRWIN RIDER.
HE WAS HARVEY WEINSTEIN’S OWN
ACCOUNTANT FOR HIS COMPANIES FOR
ABOUT 30 YEARS.
SO HE WAS VERY MUCH AN INSIDER.
HE STILL WORKED AT THE WEINSTEIN
COMPANY WHEN I STARTED MEETING
WITH HIM LATE AT NIGHT IN THE
FALL OF 2017.
AND HE PROVIDED CRUCIAL
INFORMATION ABOUT MORE RECENT
ALLEGATIONS THAT HELPED US NAIL
THE STORY.
THE STORY. >> WHAT A REMARKABLE STORY.
WHEN YOU STARTED THIS DID YOU
GET HOW BIG THIS WAS?
>> WE CERTAINLY HAD NO IDEA WHAT
THE IMPACT WOULD BE.
AT "THE NEW YORK TIMES" ALL WE
KNOW IN 2017 IS THAT WE WERE
COMMITTED TO REPORTING ON SEXUAL
HARASSMENT ACROSS A VARIETY OF
INDUSTRIES FROM THE RESTAURANT
INDUSTRY TO SILICON VALLEY TO
HOLLYWOOD TO AUTO PLANTS, AND
OUR HOPE, OBVIOUSLY, WAS THEY
WOULD HELP BRING ABOUT CHANGE,
BUT WE COULDN’T BE SURE WHAT WAS
GOING TO HAVE WHAT IMPACT.
>> THE TIP OF THE SPEAR.
THANK YOU FOR NOT ONLY YOUR