- Are you joking?
- You stare at me with that face.
Are you jealous?
- [Sheriff Of Rottingham] I challenge you to a duel.
(crowd gasps)
- You're about to watch Dave Rubin make fun
of bow tie Tucker two times to his face
to start this interview off
and you might not even realize it's going on.
I'm gonna break down
all the little nuances of this interaction,
'cause these two guys are pros
and the reason he does it is he wants
to immediately establish himself
as the leader of the interaction.
The industry term is to establish and hold the frame
and then the other person naturally
takes more of a supplicative role.
That was his intention,
but old Tucker, man, he's no rookie.
He's been around.
I think he started the Spin Room in 2000
and then went to CrossFire, now his own show, Tucker,
and he is a real pro.
I'm gonna dissect the little things that he does
but at the end, I'm gonna talk about
one overarching concept that he executes so well
that you'll be able to use
and incorporate in your own life
to get your social skills where you need.
I don't want you to be talking to your boss
or your manager and Ron comes over
and tries to talk over you or make you look bad
and you just stand there like this.
I want you to know how to turn that situation around
so you look better than if Ron
wouldn't have ever come in at all
to try to clown on you in front of your boss, you know?
A lot of time, the people who get promoted
is 'cause, I don't know, he just seems like
he's got a lot of leadership skills.
People look to him for leadership, right?
He just has that aura and energy around him.
Why?
It's social skills.
By the way, my name's Barron Cruz.
This is The Charisma Matrix
and I'm here to teach you the social skills you need
to get what you want out of life.
So, when we start this video off,
I want you to notice immediately, what does Tucker do
to try to set his own frame against Rubin's?
Alright, here we go.
- Joining me today is the host
of Tucker Carlson Tonight on Fox News,
now a New York Times bestselling author
with his new book, Ship of Fools.
Tucker Carlson, welcome to
the Rubin Report. - Hey, Dave.
- I am glad to have you here, my friend.
- (laughs) I'm glad to be here, I love this.
- [Barron] Okay, so what's Tucker doing
right off the bat there?
It's a big joke.
It's so casual.
He's not stressed.
Most people, even though he's on Fox News all the time,
are under a little bit of stress
and it takes a little while to get the wheels rolling
and it shows they're a little bit intimidated.
But he didn't want to come off that way at all,
so he starts out with responding with a goofy voice
and then, when he laughs, and his second thing he says,
there's nothing funny.
He's just doing that laugh to show that he's loose.
Let's watch that again.
- Tucker Carlson, welcome to
the Rubin Report. - Hey, Dave.
Hey, Dave.
- I am glad to have you here, my friend.
- (laughs) I'm glad to be here, I love this.
- I don't know that anyone has ever walked in here
and been more impressed by the Rubin Report.
- 'Cause I work in television, so I know what this is,
and it's just the coolest thing I've seen in a long time.
- Are you jealous?
- [Barron] Alright, there's the first crack
and it's all under the radar, right?
I mean, he doesn't necessarily seem like he's coming at him.
But anytime someone's easily impressed,
it's a low status attribute.
Like, you bring some bum in,
like you're driving some Honda Accord
and some bum's like, "Oh, you got an amazing car.".
It's like, whatever.
So, he starts out by saying, "Oh, man.
"You're easily impressed.
"I don't know if anyone has been
"as impressed as you are right here".
And then he follows it up with, "Are you jealous?".
So, just kind of a backhanded crack to establish the frame
and to kinda establish his dominance.
- Are you joking?
Yes, I'm jealous.
- You have millions and millions of viewers.
- I drive across. - You have a massive staff.
- (laughs) But I don't have
the control that you have, which is wonderful.
- Yeah, control.
Alright, so, speaking of control,
I have only one goal for the next hour
which is to at some point, say something so ludicrous,
that you stare at me with that face.
- [Barron] Alright, there's the second one.
So, before he's even started this interview,
he's worked so hard to set up the frame
and you know these are things that he's scripted before.
This is not off the cuff.
So, Tucker's known to have kind of
an open-mouthed look when he's surprised.
And even though it's kind of funny
and he takes it in stride, clearly that's not,
like, something that he's super proud of, right?
By him bringing that up, it's like bringing up something
that he knows he'll be a little embarrassed about.
So, it's his second attempt to establish himself
as the leader and to hopefully,
have Tucker fall into a supplicative frame.
But Tucker's way too much of pro.
So, see how he handles it.
(Tucker laughs)
- Where- - I may do that.
- Where did the face come from?
- It's totally organic. - Everywhere, the memes
that come out of that face. - It's totally organic.
The funny thing is- - Okay,
I want you to watch that.
I'm gonna let it play here in just a little bit,
but I want you to notice.
He laughs in response but then immediately
goes into, "It's totally organic",
showing it's not a real laugh.
These are not genuinely happy laughs.
It's just part of his communication
to show that he's not taking it seriously.
So, he laughs it off and then, the next thing you know,
'cause a real laugh, what happens?
You laugh and you're cheerful and you're smiling
and then it slowly winds down from that.
You don't immediately go from
(laughs) yeah, it's totally organic.
- That you stare at me with that face.
(Tucker laughs)
- Where- - I may do that.
- Where did the face come from?
- It's totally organic. - Everywhere, the memes
that come out of that face. - It's totally organic.
The funny thing is when...
I mean, that's just my face at rest,
which is golden retriever like.
- Yeah.
- (breathes out) I'm a mouth breather
and when I first started this show,
I got complaints about it internally
and the idea was it's too embarrassing,
look like a moron, but I can't stop, I can't help myself.
So I'm not a super self-aware person.
I'm not a mirror user, for example.
- [Barron] A mirror, like there's two kinds of people.
There's either mirror users or non-mirror users.
- Because if you work in TV
and you become really self-conscious,
it destroys you - Yeah.
- and makes you insecure so I just am trained
after 20 years not to think about the way I look
and I didn't even know that I look like a moron
when I'm whistling. (Dave laughs)
But I do and I'm not changing.
- [Barron] Okay so how did you
take his response to that?
How do you feel about his response?
I'm guessing you feel it was pretty good and valid.
Very high status.
Why?
Because most people, who are pushed against like that,
calling out something they're not proud of,
they get very defensive and they'll come up with reasons.
They'll be like, oh you know, it's not that bad.
You know, maybe once or twice people caught me like that.
What did he do?
He's completely honest about it.
He makes fun of himself.
He uses self deprecating humor.
He says, "I look like a golden retriever."
Twice he said, "I look like a moron."
He said, "I can't even use a mirror."
That's high status.
He wasn't emotionally rattled.
Like, what are you talking about?
Oh no, I'm gonna look bad.
This is gonna be televised on YouTube,
everyone's gonna see it and think I'm dumb.
It's self aware.
I know I look dumb.
It's something I've come to peace with.
That's a very high status thing.
Notice yourself, when you feel
like you wanna get defensive,
when someone says something to you
that's maybe not that flattering,
notice how you feel about the other person
and very likely, you feel like they have high status.
Maybe it's someone above you in the workplace
or something like that.
But if it's someone you don't care about.
Like what if it's your little nephew
and they say something about you that's not that flattering?
You'd be like, ah, whatever, you're a goof ball.
Just like this, ohh, I'm a golden retriever, whatever.
It shows that you position yourself as high,
if not higher than them within social status,
which is very powerful.
Unfortunately, the natural tendency that people have
is to get defensive when people make cracks
about things that aren't positive to them.
Now, how did he end that whole rebuttal?
He ended it with something that was very powerful.
He said all these self-deprecating things
and if it would have ended on that note,
like oh yeah, I'm a golden retriever.
I know I look like a moron, yadda yadda yadda,
that's too weak, that's too much self deprecation,
so he ends very strong with this line.
- I didn't even know that I looked like a moron,
when I'm whistling. (Dave laughs)
but I do and I'm not changing.
- [Barron] And I'm not changing.
That's the thing.
That shows the confidence at the end.
It's not like, I look like a moron,
it's something I'm working on.
He's laughing at it, that's who he is.
I'm not changing.
I can't even imagine what it's like
to be on Fox News every day on these shows
where he's interviewing people.
You wanna talk about developing a tough skin.
Does anyone take more of a brow beating
than maybe the president or something like that
from opposition and people who are constantly
saying things they don't like.
It's unbelievable.
So, this guy, that's one of the reasons
I wanted to break this down,
he's so polished 'cause he's taken
such a brow beating over the years.
So that's a great way to show humility,
to show high confidence and then at the end,
a little summary statement, and I'm cool with it,
and I'm okay with that, I've come to peace with that,
that's who I am.
- But I will be totally honest with you.
Years ago, when I first saw you on Crossfire on CNN,
I was not a fan. - Okay, that's the third time,
you could actually argue four, but that's the third time
before they got into any questions,
'cause listen the response previously
was about his open mouth look,
and now he's saying, listen, when I saw you I wasn't a fan.
So Rubin does a good job.
He has an affable demeanor, right?
He seems very friendly and whatnot.
And I don't think he dislikes Tucker,
but it's clear his goal is
to position himself as the authority.
Because they haven't even started the interview yet
and this is the third time
that he's saying, I'm not a fan of you.
So he's got a great way of not coming across like a jerk,
'cause you know it'd be very easy,
can you imagine if someone were
to start an interview like this
and they would have said what he said in an angry way.
The whole goal of this interview
is to make you make that stupid face.
Yeah I remember.
When I first saw you I thought you were an idiot.
I didn't think you were a fan.
But because he's using such nice couching with this,
it doesn't come across like he's trying
to be that negative and that's a really important thing,
that's an important entire concept to understand
is people get away with saying things
by couching then with different emotion
and with different language around it,
they're able to say things a little more poignant
and a little more confrontational
in a way that it doesn't come across that way
and it also helps that Tucker's a pro,
I mean this is the third time.
Someone else would probably be getting angry,
but look at him, he's smiling once again at this.
And when I talk about these things,
if you're listening to this, you're like geeze,
I didn't even understand like that.
Like to me the interview looks
like it's just a normal interview,
just two guys talking.
I get it.
I remember what that was like when I didn't understand
what was going on around me socially
and it's kinda crippling,
'cause you can kinda feel like you go up to somebody
and one time you get a good reaction,
the next time you get a bad reaction.
Like what was different?
It's not cool.
And I put together something you can grab for free,
'cause you're coming from this video.
It's a social invincibility checklist
that'll take you through five things
that'll get you up to par so you can
understand what's going on around you
and feel more comfortable when you're out socially.
You can touch or click up here in the left corner
or go to CharismaMatrix.com/SIChecklist
and you'll be able to download it there.
- Now I was- (Tucker laughing)
Now I- - You weren't alone in that.
(both laughing)
- I thought here's this bow-
- [Barron] See, that's another...
So that reaction, the laugh is very disarming, right?
Once again, is that funny?
That when I first saw you, I didn't like you?
No, it's not funny, but the reaction of a laugh
and once again self depreciating,
you weren't alone in that.
That may come across to you intuitively as low status.
It's actually high status because it's showing
he doesn't have an emotional reaction.
He doesn't care.
- Crossfire on CNN, I was not a fan.
Now, I was- (Tucker laughing)
Now, I was- - You weren't alone in that.
(both laughing)
- I thought, here's this bow-tie wearing guy
who's seemingly kinda smug and whatever
and I was a lefty at the time,
so we were really polar opposites politically.
- Yeah. - But everything
has shifted enough that we are kinda allies now
and I actually think that's kinda cool.
So before we do anything else,
tell me about little Tucker Carlson.
People know about Tucker Carlson
that eviscerates socialists all day.
- What was I like as a kid? - Yeah, yeah, yeah.`
Just like growing up. - Well I grew up here.
- [Barron] And that's even a little bit
of a backhanded slap.
Not what were you like as a kid.
What was little Tucker like?
Now, in interviews like these,
a lot of times, someone who's trying
to establish themselves the authority
will talk over the other person a lot
and it takes a lot of different techniques
to diffuse this when it happens over and over again.
Now, if you feel like you get talked over a lot,
I actually have a video where I go through
three strategies that you can use
that these guys actually use later in the interview
that you can go through so next time
someone tries to talk to you at work,
once again Ron comes up and tries to talk over you,
what do you do?
'Cause every time he talks over you,
it does indicate lower status.
As much as we don't want to admit that
and it's kind of a cold truth, it is true,
so if you're talking to your boss
and old Ron comes up and does that, what do you do?
If you're not sure, I suggest you click here
to watch that video and I'll walk you through three things
and if you haven't seen this video right here,
you're gonna like this one too.
Click on one of those and I'll talk to you over there.