never has washington faced two ways
quite like this
preparing for a presidential
inauguration and a presidential
impeachment
at the same time today the democrats
introduced one article of impeachment
charging president donald trump with
incitement to insurrection
sadly the person who's running executive
branch is a deranged
unhinged dangerous president of the
united states
and only a number of days until
we can be protected from him but he has
done something
so serious that there should be
prosecution against him
the democrats are trying to put pressure
on vice president mike pence and the
cabinet
to remove president trump using the 25th
amendment
but that so far looks unlikely madam
speaker
assuming that fails the democrats in the
house will start debating
impeachment on wednesday but given
america will have a new president
a week later there is an obvious
question what's the point of impeaching
donald trump
when he's out of office in what nine
days time
one is we need to set a precedent that
if you lose an election
you can't just continue contesting it
and trying to overturn the will of the
people
because there could be future want to be
strong men who
follow president trump's playbook and we
want them to know that if they do
they will be sanctioned in a serious way
the second reason
is that impeachment not only removes a
president from serving
but it prevents them from ever running
or serving again
so if you don't want president trump to
win in 2024
it makes sense to impeach now away from
the politics more and more videos of the
riot have been posted on social media
bringing home to americans just what
happened at their congress
the chaos and violence is now clear to
all
[Music]
[Applause]
the fighting to get past police at this
door was intense
an officer is dragged down the steps and
[Applause]
savagely
another is crushed in a door as the
crowd surges
why were the police caught so unprepared
here's the front of the senate building
as the crowd started to gather just one
officer
on the steps compare that to the steps
of the lincoln memorial during the blm
protests
in the summer why the different levels
of response
the authorities have started arresting
some suspects and trying to identify
others
i filmed a group of proud boys as they
marched on the capitol last wednesday
their intention was clear
many came dressed for trouble have a
look at this man in the stars and stripe
hoodie
and orange balaclava in his tactical
vest
he has not only a radio and scissors but
at the end a can
of bear spray a chemical irritant
designed to stop a charging grizzly
right behind him is this man he's
wearing full combat gear
he has goggles around his neck and is
carrying what appears to be a baseball
bat
there is some insignia on his chest
below which are two pouches
the black one has a patch on the front
that says believe it or not
my mum thinks i'm special the dc
metropolitan police have issued several
photographs of what they term persons of
interest
including the same man inside the
congress still with his baseball bat
and now a can of something in his hand
perhaps pepper spray
there is no danger of being under
prepared now
a seven foot high fence has been built
right around congress
and thousands of police and military are
now on the streets
at least another ten thousand will be
here in time for the inauguration
meanwhile the dc mayor has urged the
public to stay away from washington next
week
david grossman with that report from
washington and joining us now robert ray
president
trump's attorney for the first
impeachment trial this time
last year he was also independent
council during the clinton
administration
and democratic congresswoman barbara lee
welcome to you both thanks for joining
us
robert ray if i can just start with you
you have a president accused of inciting
violence
an incitement to insurrection against
the united states you have five people
dead it's hard to think of a more
clear-cut case for removing a president
well the first thing to
analyze though is that if you read the
draft article of impeachment the basis
for the argument that the president
himself
obviously this has to be personal this
isn't just some
sort of impeachment article about all
the things that the democrats don't like
about the trump administration it has to
be tethered to something that he
actually did
that constitutes a high crime or
misdemeanor
and their allegation is that the
president made the statement
that if you don't fight like health
you're not going to have a country
anymore well words like that
are ambiguous enough that it seems hard
for me to understand how you'd be able
to prove at a trial
that that constitutes what they've
charged
which is inciting violence against the
government of the united states now
that's not to condone what happened here
and living on the edge of impeachment
is no way to conduct a presidency but
that's
uh you know when it comes to making an
allegation that constitutes removal from
office
do you believe then that he didn't
incite violence
and do you believe that there was no
incitement to insurrection
against the united states i overturning
the democratic result
do you believe he didn't do those things
well he's not
responsible for all the crazy things
that everybody does and he has a first
amendment
defense and also a factual defense that
you know his word should not have been
taken
literally i understand how people can
come to the conclusion in context that
when he said those words
he sent some kind of a signal to crazy
people to do
things that would constitute actual
violence against the united states but
it's another thing to say that that was
what the president's intent was
look i'm not defending the the comments
but you're talking about whether or not
that that
impeachment article is sufficient to
remove a president
before the end of his term i'm just
asking for the logic in that because it
sounds pretty weak to me that
no incitement to violence would ever be
taken seriously because
you could always say that uh that a
politician speaking hyperbole you could
always say it's a way of speaking but
freedom of speech doesn't equal freedom
of consequence
and if people follow your words when you
say you have to show strength
or when your attorney says trial by
combat or when you suggest that
something has to happen to mike pence
and then people go in with the gallows
talking about hanging him
surely you have to see the consequences
of your words well look you know and
again if if you're right about that and
that that should be distinguished from
any
uh comment that a politician or a
president ever makes which is would
subject
every president potentially to
prosecution for incitement of violence
then fine prosecute the president after
he leaves office
but you know we're talking about an
impeachment here
that is being brought at the earliest
which would be one week which is
wednesday
one week before president trump leaves
office and a new administration
uh takes office and it seems to me a
decidedly
different thing to say that that would
be something that's in the country's
best interests
he still has the nuclear code deep
breath everybody should just take a deep
breath
and relax and allow an administration to
come into office
yeah it's easier to take a deep breath
and relax um if you're not looking at a
man who still has the nuclear codes
if you're not looking at the fact his
homeland security chief
just resigned tonight chad wolfe so
you've presumably got nobody in charge
of that if if
you could relax in the face of an fbi
that's not
that's not true there's not nobody in
charge okay so let's not exaggerate here
well the fbi have said they're expecting
more threats and function and functions
just fine
and the president doesn't order things
with nuclear codes on his own there's a
whole bunch of procedures
that are in place with the united states
military and the department of defense
before that would ever happen so before
everybody rushes to the ramparts here
to say that you know disaster is
imminent
just understand that there are all kinds
of protections involved to ensure that
something like what you're talking about
never happened well like like last week
because you know the fbi has warned
haven't they the fbi has warned
about those are two different things
okay you're talking about
the action of the united states
government to enter into a nuclear war
and you're trying to suggest that that's
just as likely as having people take the
capital of the united states by violence
i'm not i i'm not don't put words in my
mouth all i'm saying is
this man this man who has managed to get
a crowd
even if he didn't mean to to go to the
capitol
to raise it to steal to leave people
dead
it's only what he means
i can't hear you i'm so sorry we've lost
your sound
i'll i'll come back to you robert let me
just go to um
to barbara lee um i guess the question
is
if they can use the first amendment to
say that he didn't really mean any of
that stuff and if people took him
seriously it was their fault
then that could be a legal challenge
which
which is a strong defense barbara lee
well first of all
you can't breathe take a deep breath and
chill
this coupe attempt
was actually
propelled into action by the president
of the united states
he clearly through his words and his
deeds over and this didn't just start i
mean
over the years he's been inciting all of
this uh
anger and hostile behavior
by his followers uh the 14th amendment
is clear
on consequences for inciting in
insurrection uh also abuse of power
there are plenty of legal and
constitutional
foundation or basis for articles of
impeachment but if you ask me he should
resign
i mean uh that uh he is a clear and pain
present danger
and he's a national security threat and
if he won't resign
then vice president pence should step up
and allow the 25th amendment to kick in
that would be great for the democrats
but neither of those things are going to
happen so let me put robert's points to
you
which is what is this impeachment
actually for you don't think he's going
to start a nuclear war in 10 days
is it to stop him from ever taking
federal office again or is it unfinished
business
what are you trying to do first of all
you have to hold the head of state the
commander-in-chief accountable
there was an attack a violent attack
an attempted coup on the people of this
country
at the capitol on our leadership on
members of congress
and unfortunately many of our police
officers who were overwhelmed
and had to fight in almost a war
especially the african-american police
officers who were
at the mercy of many of these um
terrorists and this was
a act of domestic terrorism you cannot
let
any president get away with that also we
cannot
allow a precedent to be said i don't
care if it's one day before
that uh allows for future presidents to
see that this is okay
to uh to incite violence
to uh give orders to get to the capitol
i mean the his words were very clear
and the actions were very clear and
there's a direct correlation between his
words and his actions
finally let me just say many of the
republicans who
who accepted the lies and of course this
uh
attempted coup is based on the lies of
the election we know the election
was fair and free and that there have
been many court challenges and
every court challenge was uh overturned
and was not ruled in donald trump's
favor and yet you have over 100 members
of the house
still trying to decertify the elections
to take away the votes of the people
and that's outrageous and they need to
be held accountable also
robert ray does raise a really serious
question of whether the republican party
actually understand
how serious this was can i ask you will
you serve or would you serve
on his legal defense team again if he
faced impeachment
well that's a hypothetical question we
haven't gotten there and i don't answer
hypothetical questions particularly in
view of the fact that i represented
the president in the first impeachment
but i will say that the 25th amendment
route i think is an empty
ultimatum uh not the least of which
because it requires a presidential
disability and that's not what this
situation was not intended to be covered
by that
i understand that the democrats want to
proceed down the road of impeachment
um in the event that the 25th amendment
is not invoked
um i think that jim clyburn has it about
right
maybe the best course here if you want
to sanction the president's conduct is
to have an impeachment and just let its
uh you know stand at that and not send
it on to the united states senate i'm
also inclined to agree
with david kendall who represented
president clinton during the clinton
impeachment
to the effect that the most appropriate
sanction that is achievable now by both
the house
and the senate is for there to be a
censure resolution which i think would
enjoy bipartisan support
by both democrats and republicans i
think it's achievable
i think it's something that sends a
strong signal which is uh what the
congresswoman suggested needed to be
send
sent and i agree with her robert just
let me ask you something that i think
that's something that both sides would
agree on
yeah you've answered funnily enough a
lot of hypothetical questions there
whether it's about you know amendment 25
or um the first amendment how you use it
so can i just ask you again
if you were asked to serve to to be on
his defence team
would you say yes well that again that's
something subject to attorney-client
privilege and that is a hypothetical
question these other things are not
hypothetical
they are in fact what's going to happen
um you want to ask me
in the event that actually an
impeachment article is returned on
wednesday i'm happy to answer that
question but not now
thank you we'd love to see you back both
of you thanks for joining