hello and welcome to ways to change the
world I'm Krishnan guru-murthy and this
is the podcast in which we talk to
extraordinary people about the big ideas
and their lives and the events that have
helped shape them and my guest this week
is a pop star TV presenter former child
star
Frankie bridge and she's here because
she's just published this it's called
open why asking for help can save your
life and it's it's a really brilliant
and surprising book because it's very
very open and straightforward about your
own experience with mental health from
childhood right through to breakdown and
afterwards so thank you very much for
coming in to do this I mean why have you
done the book first of all I think
because one of the biggest things with
depression and anxiety is it can make
you feel really alone and you feel like
all of these feelings and thoughts that
you're having no one else has ever had
the same and this is my way of kind of
putting it out there for anyone that
needs it about to be like no I feel the
same you're not on your own and there's
probably more people than you think it's
very very accessible I mean I read it
kind of thinking well you have you
written this for teenagers or young
people but actually as I sort of went
further this is good for anyone yeah at
first actually I originally wanted it to
be for younger people because I feel
like had I have known more about
depression anxiety when I was younger
maybe I wouldn't have ended up having a
mental breakdown but then as time went
on I feel like it's just a general thing
you know adults and young people suffer
from and I would have had to have left
parts out about pregnancy or whatever
that were all part of my journey so it
just kind of made sense to its for
anyone really and how big a decision is
it so just lay it all out I mean you
know you'd say you've been in reality TV
programmes about you know s Club and The
Saturdays yeah and your life but
actually talking about this stuff is
different yeah you know what I went into
it really naively
I knew it was a big deal I've been asked
to write books before and staff and I've
never really wanted to you know but this
one first of all I didn't want to use a
ghostwriter because it's something
really personal and I've never written a
book before so I went into that blindly
thinking that would be easy because you
know I loved writing stories when I was
a teenager totally not the same and also
I find my mental health really easy to
talk about and it doesn't affect me
mentally but actually writing it down
did and I think it was a mixture of
reliving those things learning new
things because I went through my
doctor's notes with my therapist and
psychiatrist and also just the pressure
of you know producing something that I
told editors and the public that I was
going to produce and it having to be
decent but I've been aware actually
before talking to people on the podcast
about mental health often with books
that's asking people loads of questions
about this stuff is it is in itself it
can be quite difficult so yeah I mean
you're and you're so you're on a
publicity tour at the moment for this
yep and that makes you read and rethink
and relive quite a lot of the difficult
things that it does Sharon I think it
also makes people feel comfortable to
come and speak to me about their issues
which is lovely and it is kind of the
whole point of the book but it also it
makes me happy that people feel that
they can talk to me but it also makes me
sad that so many people are suffering
and so many people don't really know
where to go or how to deal with it now
we're recording this in January in
February hopefully when this is released
we'll be doing this money that's being
raised by that challenge is largely
going to mental health yeah projects is
that why you're doing yeah definitely
when they asked me I'd actually just got
back from trekking the Himalayas oh well
and it was like a day after I'd got back
I think I was in bed and my manager rang
me and she said oh we've got this thing
and I just laughed I was are you serious
I've just kind in layers
but actually I the good thing about
these challenges they're so far out of
my comfort zone that they tick all of my
anxiety boxes and I love proving my
anxiety wrong and every time I do that
it gives me confidence to do that again
so there's that obviously for myself and
also yet a hundred percent it's all for
to raise awareness for mental health and
how could I say no because that's what
I'm all about because I mean one of the
reasons I've said yes to it is because I
you know I we have a lot of
conversations about mental health at the
moment and a lot of people doing
interviews like you are about their own
lives and politicians say yes you know
we must treat mental health just the way
we do physical health but I still feel
there's a massive gap and a lot of his
talk yeah and that the reality hasn't
really caught up it hasn't no I'm a I'm
an ambassador for mind and actually at
their last mind awards the big thing
that everyone was talking about was oK
we've got everyone to this stage where
people are feeling like they can talk
about it stigma is starting to go a bit
people are now asking for help but the
help isn't there so now there's that
next hurdle that we need to get over and
I do think we will I hope we will but I
don't know how that's gonna be achieved
well let's talk about your experience I
mean in the book you talk about your
worries I mean have you always had
worries yeah I always say I came out of
the womb anxious I just people where
I've been doing a lot of interviews
about the book they're like well there
must have been something that happened
in your life that started this and there
honestly wasn't I had two happy
childhood my parents were around and I
just was it just is me I feel like it's
my personality i overthink everything
and I just managed to find the bad in
any situation and I've just always been
that way
but you weren't depressed as a young
child no just worried you were anxious
yeah yeah I was just anxious um you know
which book a holiday and I'd be worrying
about that flight for the year leading
up to that holiday or
think a lot of it came from also
worrying about everyone else around me
mum dad my sister happy is everyone
healthy and yeah when I look at it now I
feel a bit sad for the fact that I was
so young and I thought so deeply about
everything but it just was who I was
what why does somebody who is outwardly
so confidence and can sing and dance and
perform and could do from a very young
age
yeah how can that be compatible with
also having these crippling worries I
have no idea
I ask myself this all the time sometimes
I think maybe it's partly to do with
being on stage and being outdoor to kind
of be a version of yourself you know
pretending to kind of be confident and
then also I think a lot of it comes with
that that praise and need to be liked
almost you know and there's nothing
there's no bigger way to get that
understanding on a stage and people
clapping and cheering I think that's not
why I got into it cuz I was so young I
don't think I thought about it that much
but and I just enjoyed it and then I've
just kind of fell into it from there on
because I do think a lot of people in
our industry are quite like that
normally they're quite shy when you meet
them outside of a work situation and you
know I don't know because you you were
very young when you started doing
professional well I used to go to just a
local dance school and then there the
teacher there put my parents in one day
and said we think you should send her to
a stage school and so my parents they
were a bit shocked asked me if I would
like to go and I was like yeah okay but
obviously it was expensive and they were
concerned that I'd go and not enjoy it
so I joined a local stage school and
then the plan was when you go to
secondary school you can audition for
Sylvia Young Italia Conti or whatever
but then this open audition for s-curved
unions came about on CBBC and just the
night before I was like should we go for
it and we did and then I got in so there
wasn't that much thought that went into
it you know I wasn't yeah I wasn't like
when I was younger it was
oh you're either going to be a musical
theatre or like a g-string
there was no like though one became pop
stars you know there was no pop idol or
anything an S Club juniors was sort of a
sort of a brand spin-off yes yeah with
well did it have a reality TV series
around it from the beginning or was that
something that yeah so they followed us
from the beginning so from the auditions
CBeebies followed us through all of that
stage and then continued to do so
throughout the first couple of years of
our career to actually know how long
they did it for yeah pressured in
existence was that for a 12 year old it
wasn't because there was no social media
and where we were so young people
weren't allowed to write about us there
was now Daily Mail if things were
uploaded instantly so I just had no idea
I was just in this bubble of not going
to school and love in my life like we
were tooted but you know I was just
doing what I loved and Simon fellow was
very strict on who was around us we
never chopped or changed like our team
so I felt really secure and safe and I
said when you're that young you just but
I had no idea how successful we were
until afterwards and I think that's
quite nice because that's club genius
became S Club yeah and so you're
performing all the time yeah stadiums
and arenas yeah we did arena tours and
that was that one of the first things we
did I mean so what I mean is you know do
you think the pressure of all of that
had anything to do with your mental
health no I don't know I who knows I
think because I was already that way
inclined I think either way whatever
career I ended up in or whatever
relationship I ended up in maybe I would
have ended up having a breakdown or
developing depression further down the
line just for different reasons but I do
think obviously being in the public eye
being written about spoken about
people's opinions being thrown at you
all the time it obviously if you're a
person that already over thinks what
people think of you it's gonna make that
worse but that was something that came
later on yeah s-curve Junya is
definitely not so at what point did you
start seeing
psychologists and doctors thinking about
medication it wasn't until I was in The
Saturdays quite early on I hold were you
when you joined the Saturday's think I
was 17 I get really rubbish with
timelines I think it's about 17 or 18
because we were together for about a
year before anyone even knew about us
and we wish we were really exhausted
after doing you know you do all that the
clubs and you knees and whatever and it
was quite a big shock because in S Club
juniors you're only allowed to work five
days a week
certain amount of hours a day you're
only allowed to be on camera for a
certain amount of hours and you have
chaperones that stay on top of all of
that and obviously being a child I
couldn't wait to grow up and I hated
having a chaperone there and then in the
Saturday so I was like give me a
chaperone you know I want to be able to
only work I said about at times and yes
so that was a big shock I think going
from that changeover and I went to the
doctor's just thinking I was exhausted
and he suggested I go and see a
therapist I just thought what is he
talking about for me a therapist was for
like crazy people when I wasn't crazy
and I was in I was fine but then I think
for about a year after that I started
noticing that I was able to function at
work but the minute I got home I was
just a crying mess because with the
Saturdays also came out on hood I'm
being able to live hard party hard yeah
relationships yeah and I think that was
a big part of it as well you know you're
working really hard and you are going
out after work and staying up late or
you know trying to navigate
relationships in the public eye as a
teenager hit there hard anyway and then
with everyone talking about you at the
same time so yeah it was a weird part of
life and it took me a long time to
realize what was going on with me
mentally at what point you start to
realize but you need more help I think
me and my boyfriend at the time just
kind of realized that I was just
actually coming home I was unable to
have conversation I wasn't hungry I
didn't want to eat I just wanted to get
in bed and cry myself to sleep and after
a while we were like that's not normal
obviously um but you just put it down
you just make excuses for it so a lot I
mean when you say Christ I'll to sleep I
mean it would that happen from time to
time
very much yeah pretty much nightly every
night yeah by day and being interviewed
and doing photo shoots yeah smiling away
and then crying yeah it's weird how good
you are at hiding it um I suppose this
bit like people with addictions they're
just so good at hiding it um so then
when I first went to the doctors it was
kind of a relief but it took me a long
time to find my groove like I didn't
really like my therapist at first I
refused medication at first because I
didn't think I needed it because again
that to me would seem a failure at that
time so it took me a long time to accept
it well you write about that don't you I
mean what why would going on medication
be a failure
because I think a lot of people have a
lot of opinions on antidepressants and I
think it's changed a little bit now but
not massively and that's why I'm so open
about the fact that I have and still do
take medication I'm not saying everyone
needs to take it and it works for
everyone it doesn't but if you need it
you shouldn't feel ashamed about it and
people have this notion that you can't
be on it forever and my doctors just
always been like we wouldn't expect
someone that's diabetic or an asthmatic
to come off of their medication so why
are you any different
and I didn't have an answer for that so
so how did you get over that feeling I
have been decided to give it a try
because the therapy just wasn't working
I think I've done it for quite a few
months and I didn't feel any better if
anything I was probably getting worse
and I just thought I just didn't want to
feel like that anymore
I wanted to be able to enjoy what I was
doing and and you think the therapy was
the wrong therapy either an therapists I
think here I think the therapy
helped obviously I had to get stuff off
my chest
but yeah it wasn't the right therapist I
then moved to a different therapist and
that's the one that's in my book and I
think people just assume you go to one
and they're the right one and it's not
the case because you I mean you also
mentioned you know feeling like the sort
of the cliche of the young starak are
handled yeah yeah I hated that because I
don't actually sim bear a thing I just
felt like people were just gonna be a
there's another one you know poor little
rich girl or whatever um nothing it
wasn't any way but I just felt like I
was walking into giving people an excuse
to put me down
and judge me I suppose did you did you
feel that way about yourself yeah it was
that way yes well I was just
disappointed in myself because I had
what I'd always wanted you know I loved
singing and I love to dance I loved
performing I loved my job so and um
really well I mean you're getting top
ten hits yeah and this was my second
round of it as well I was like who gets
that opportunity to do it twice and
don't get me wrong I worked hard but I
was very lucky and I knew that so you
know a lot of with depression anxiety is
that feeling of guilt over so many
things and I felt and and still do
sometimes so much guilt about the fact
that I was doing what so many people
would love to do and what I had always
wanted to do but I was still
fundamentally unhappy I mean that that's
often the way that wasn't I mean you
know you see so many people who are
successful attractive whatever it might
be you know and you say but you've got
so many reasons to feel amazing yeah so
at what point were you able to sort of
say it's a you know it's okay for me to
feel like that it wasn't until after I'd
been into hospital to be honest so it
took me having a full-on mental
breakdown being hospitalized for a month
and then probably still not until a good
few years after that because I wasn't
fixed the minute I came out um and it's
only really now I think that I'm getting
older
and um you know not more years down the
line from that stage of my life that I
can say well it's an illness you know
it's what it is and I've still managed
all these amazing things whilst going
through that and a lot of the time with
anxiety and depression you feel like
you're weak but on good days like today
I can say actually must be pretty
bloomin strong because I managed to
forge to put careers have a husband and
two kids whilst going through all of
that I mean you say it took a break now
you had your breakdown what was the
breakdown what is a breakdown I don't
know what it is for other people but I
think it's normally when you you
physically and mentally can't cope with
life anymore a day-to-day life and I'd
got to the point where I just couldn't
like the cry and started again all the
time and I just I just was so lost I
didn't know who I was what what I wanted
really I couldn't make any decisions
I just couldn't cope really and it was
it was getting to the point where at
work I was almost having to switch on
Frankie from The Saturdays to become
this person that people were expecting
and then I'd like to switch off once I
got home and I don't know how I managed
to keep it up at work it's weird but so
was the point at which you couldn't
switch it on anymore
yeah I'm we had I was still managing to
work but at home Wayne and up my husband
and I we'd had like this route because I
was crying I'd got to a point then I was
saying things like I don't want to be
here anymore everything would be better
for everyone if I just died and you know
and which was pretty scary for someone
to hear and he called my GP she came
over the next day and then it was just
before I was supposed to be going away
to record a music video for two days and
she rang my psychiatrist and he was
actually needs to go into hospital and I
was ready by that point because I was
just so tired it
so tiring trying to pretend to be pretty
much pretending to be someone else 24/7
or by however long as it worked for
everyday and then getting home and just
collapsing and just just feeling like
you don't want to go on anymore
and it felt nice to take that pressure
off of myself and let someone else kind
of take responsibility for me scary but
also a relief so you shot a music video
yes something decided that you were
going to go into hospital yeah so we
decided I was going to go in and we rang
my manager because there's never a good
time in a pop group schedule to take
time out you know it just doesn't exist
and there's a lot of other people yeah
you know it's not like I'm a solo RTC
there I'm letting down for other people
and we'd booked this video to record
away in Iceland in Iceland yeah so for
me to pull out of that one it would
throw off the whole single plan too
would probably lose those money or
whatever so we agreed I would go and do
that as my last job and then fly back
and I'd go into hospital but the girls
didn't know at that point and it was
only my manager that knew and I just I
felt slightly better because I knew that
I was going to come back and go into
hospital but it was it felt excruciating
to have to go and do that last final
thing luckily for me it was like quite a
sad and moody video yeah no one else
would have known so what do you think
when you watch that video I just think
it's really sad you know I'm I look to
me I see I feel like I just kind of
looked dead behind the eyes probably to
anyone else they probably wouldn't know
any different but yeah it was a really
weird time it's like you're just running
on autopilot I'm doing what everyone's
telling me to do I can still do a music
video but I'm just like a body basically
I mean one of the really great things
about this book is it's just written
very simply and it tells you exactly
what happened and what you talked about
going into hospital is just being doped
up which is what they do
when you're going to hospital yes give
you loads of drugs which is great but
what was the point of that why are they
doing that I think my psychiatrist has
always said to me he can't deal with my
depression or anxiety until I'm until he
sought us out my tiredness because when
you're tired you know you can't sort
anything out so for me until that I
hadn't been sleeping at all really it
took me so long to a full a seat because
my mind was always racing and then once
I was asleep I wouldn't stay asleep for
very long so I think a lot of that was
sleeping tablets to get me to sleep and
calm down um and also there trying to
figure out what antidepressants and
anti-anxiety medication works for you
and I suppose you come in at such a low
point that they have to start everything
at such a high dose and then sort it all
out I mean are you okay with how you
felt I mean I it really reminded me of a
friend of mine who went into the
hospital and under similar circumstances
and I went to visit her and in fact you
talk about friends saying they'd come to
visit you or family you're not really
remembering yeah no I said God knows
whether she remembers but I remember her
being totally sort of doped up and but
finding it very difficult because she
didn't you know she couldn't get in
touch with herself she didn't I don't
think I don't remember feeling like that
um I think all I felt it was just relief
and exhaustion I just was willing to
hand myself over and whatever they
decided I was happy to to go with
basically and so why did hospital
achieve what's seeing doctors and
psychotherapists outside hospital not
achieve I think it gave me that time
because had I not have gone in I would
have still been working maybe slightly
less but I would still have to have
managed to live in the outside world
which was something that I wasn't able
to cope with anymore
and I think the nice thing about being
in hospital was that I was surrounded by
people in the same situation as me
so there was no judgement or pretense
there anymore it was we're all here
we're all in same boat
some people were worse than me which was
quite a nice relief for me and you could
talk about medication openly and there
was no secret in that and yeah you
weren't able to stay in the hospital for
as long as the doctors thought you
should know because of work yes because
we had a tour booked
I was desperate to do it beside my
favorite part of being in a band is we'd
sold an arena tour people had paid to
come and see us and I love performing
and also insurance wise wouldn't have
been covered I have not done it but for
me that wasn't really the reason and I
wasn't forced to do it and I think if
anything the doctors probably didn't
really want me to but again I think it
would have made me feel worse had I not
have done it because I would have been
missing out on it and be I would have
felt like I'd let so many people down so
it was a way a toss up of what one you
were going to go for really but I loved
it have you have you been in control of
your career or have you just kind of
done whatever came along now I've
definitely not been in control and I
think that's where a lot of the issue
comes from which I only realized as I
was right in the book because you know
in s Cobb genius in a lovely way I had
no control over my life because we were
very well looked after and in the same
same in the Saturday's it wasn't you
know wasn't like people weren't nice but
you were told when you're being picked
up what you're doing that day when you
can have breakfast lunch and dinner you
know you've asked to go to the toilet
because you might miss something yeah
we're not like there's not a rule like
you have to ask so if I was coming on
here you've got to say to someone and we
say all right if I go to the loo no but
that's the same in anyone's life but all
day every day or when you're going to
get some time off for you miss most
people's weddings christenings parties
whatever and creatively I mean
presumably pretty controlled as well
yeah you know we release singles that I
loved some of them and didn't love
others and that's quite hard having to
sit
on a morning TV show and say by our
Cinco it's great and you don't really
like that one so it really was a job it
was a job yeah but one that I loved as
well like I make it sound really bad I
did love it and I'm weirdly I miss it
now I mean I was gonna ask you that I
mean for somebody who wanted to sort of
perform and sing and dance and be on
stage it's taken you a long time in your
career to do it by yourself yeah why is
that
well the Saturday's kind of kind of fell
into that as well because I'd spoken to
so it's the same record label that did s
cup junior 's and I'd kind of gone away
was you know kind of leaving leading a
normal life like I worked in a bar
worked in a shop for a while and for me
that was a bit of a novelty I suppose
and then all my friends started going to
uni and I was like what am I gonna do so
I rang the label I was like I think I
want to get back into music and I was
away and I got a phone call and we're
putting together a band would you come
in and meet us so I was like okay so I
went to met them and didn't particularly
want to be in another band but there was
nothing else going on so I was like okay
and I came out of that meeting and said
to my friends I think I'm in a girl band
they're like what do you mean you think
I don't really know just so yeah I mean
as I say I fell into it but obviously I
still had to do the work I mean you must
have been aware I mean people are very
scornful about manufactured bands yeah
how did you feel about that I don't
really care to be honest I feel like
people are so judgy about something so
silly because yeah we were manufactured
in in a sense but it didn't make our
music any less good if you liked the
song or whatever and we were still the
ones that made that band
it was our chemistry together and we had
to sell that band
I suppose so I get it we didn't write
the music but it was still good music or
people still bought it and we were never
claimed to be anything yeah but is there
any is there is there sort of less
passion integrity in a band like that
and in a in a group like that done you
know Raul band that starts in the garage
for 10 years and then gets discovered
somewhere less integrity but that's
other people's opinion of it I suppose
that's just the way the world works and
that's fair enough like we didn't write
the music or whatever but for me there
was not less passion you still want it
to succeed you still want it to do well
I suppose if you stand in there and
singing a song about an X or whatever
that you still then you felt really
passionately about the lyrics and stuff
yeah that would be more passionate I
guess but I never felt I never had any
want to write songs so didn't really
bother me what would you recommend it as
a career you know would you say to
friends whose kids are thinking about
their futures yeah it's great I did or
would you say don't you know have a
normal childhood I'm always so split
because obviously I've got two kids and
people who say to me what would you say
if they said they wanted to do the same
thing and I don't know because my
parents were in that awkward position
when I got into S Club juniors obviously
it was down to them where the write did
it or not and they basically had to hand
me over to Simon Fuller and trust them
to look after me and that was a big
thing for them because they they had to
hand over their child at the age of 12
take them out of school of normality and
be if they didn't let me would I then
resent them for the rest of my life and
I think I would be in exactly the same
position of my kids I would never push
them into it that's for sure
because my parents never pushed me into
that industry at all I would like them
to have an interest in it um but I
wouldn't necessarily go out of my way to
encourage them to do it just because
it's it's just hard I mean you must have
seen a lot of pushy parents along the
way yeah and I married a footballer as
well so like he's been around that like
we see a lot of it at school around
sport and stuff at that and his parents
weren't pushing it or either so it's not
in our DNA to be like that
and had my parents been maybe I wouldn't
have really wanted to do it I don't know
see how I like to think I would never be
like that with the boys if they
desperately wanted to do it I would
obviously help them but they you have to
be strong enough to be able to take the
knock backs and it is harder now you
have to kind of go as a whole package
back when I was younger they'd kind of
take you on and figure out what you're
gonna do and give you music and suffer
now you have to basically do all the
work for the record label and then they
just put you out there the other thing
you say in the book is that you very
young really we're very clear that you
wanted to get married and be a young mum
yeah
what I mean why is that given you were
having such an extraordinary life I
think or is it because of that that you
wanted yeah I think it was I think there
was a part of me that I'd always wanted
to be a young mom because one of my best
friends um his mum was really young when
she had them and we used to spend a lot
of time around their house and their
relationship and our relationship with
her was just great but she just seemed
more on our level and I and I was like
oh I really want to that was like a
young you know take on it like I'd
really like to completely forgetting all
the hard stuff that she'd done before
that so I've had that in my head anyway
and then I think I always had this thing
of I want to be successful but I don't
want to get to a time in my life where I
was possibly I mean I'm not but possibly
really rich and sitting in this big
house but lonely and I and I never
wanted that um not that I would have
rushed it if I you know hadn't met
someone but I was aware that yeah I
wanted to be young and all my family
knew it as well you know I've got an
older sister I've got family friends
that are all older than me that I grew
up with that we were all really close to
and they were only they're like in their
mid-30s now and they were only just
dying to have kids and get married I
mean you really bucked the trend I know
yeah we know you would be young we knew
you'd be first and had any of my mates
from school so I've still got all my
friends from school have said when they
24:00 I'm having a baby I'd have been
like what are you doing because it was
me if I was just saying okay especially
being in a band it's like it's the last
thing you expect yeah I think as the
Saturdays we were also aware that it's
gonna end one day and also for all of us
luckily as a five family came first and
none of us really we wouldn't have
stopped each other from doing that
because it's more important and you can
carry on and how important is work to
you now because I mean you say you
couldn't imagine what your role is yeah
I am I'm definitely someone that needs
to work and I don't know where that
comes from having done it from such a
young age or just that's just how I am I
can't both my parents have always worked
and I don't really know much different
and now I am in a position where I can
do things like write a book and raise
awareness for things and that is nice as
well
we're tell me about the charities that
you've backed because you're involved
with mind yeah but also with Marie Curie
just came about because the Saturdays
we're done quite a lot with them and
then they came to me with this campaign
was super drug and for me it seemed like
a great campaign because I wasn't having
to ask people to buy things or give or
pay for things that they didn't need you
know you're going superdrug you buy
items like toothpaste and whatever and
they're things you do a Dubai and you're
doing a good thing I mind purely because
of your own experience yeah so I am
joined with mines like years ago when it
was still really small it was pretty
much me and Stephen Fry I think
beginning and even the mind Awards was
in this tiny theater and no one really
came to it and whatever and now that's
grown every year and even that in itself
just proves how far mental health has
come so are used are you still I mean I
mean people don't just get over these
things do they know some people do some
people can be cured almost I think if
it's circumstantial depression
or anxiety you can sometimes it doesn't
come back I mean it's more likely it
will but for me no Minds chemical
imbalance it'll always be there and I
have untreatable depression and so so
what I swear this treatment-resistant
depression so when I try new medications
they'll work for a while and then it's
like my body kind of gets used to it it
stops working so we have two up here and
then I end up on a dosage of what you
would put a man on or whatever and then
we have to mix other ones together and
then that will happen again with the
next medication and it's so it just I
don't know why it does that
oh but it does it's really frustrating
so does that mean you do keep trying the
new medication yeah yeah when you say
it's untreatable well sounds a bit
hopeless know it so what should I just
say it was resistant treatment resistant
which means the same thing
yeah so I'm on a medication now that has
worked for me for quite a few years it
has the least amount of side effects but
I still have my days like a few weeks
ago I had a day where I just couldn't
get out of bed that day and deal with
life or whatever but and it is
frustrating I do get frustrated now and
I have had times where I've got
frustrated with Mike my psychiatrist in
the book because I remember thinking oh
so no one like I always kind of say on
my level of happiness is here normal
people's is here if it was in like the
same situation and I said oh with that
that's how it always is though Mike
right like cuz I have depression that
would that's how it would always be in
him saying no not now
most people they can when they get the
right medication and treatment they can
match that but unfortunately not for you
and that really shocked me and I was bit
pissed off to be honest I was a bit
annoyed because I was so I kind of do
everything I'm told to do and I'm still
in this situation um but now I'm kind of
like well nine times out of ten I'm fine
and I had
into the feelings more so if I'm having
a bad day I let myself have a bad day
and then I find I get out of it quicker
and move on quicker is that but is there
a is there a different way of thinking
about your depression your anxiety that
you have now having spent time on us in
hospital and all the rest of it that
enables you to cope better you know is
that is there a simple tip I wish there
was um not really I think the main
things that I say to people is the
obvious ones of talk to someone whether
it's just one person it doesn't have to
be a professional even if you have a
friend that's aware of how you feel and
I find that now if I'm feeling rubbish
if unless if I don't tell my husband
I'll takes one of my mates and it just
makes me feel better and also to lean
into the feeling sometimes because the
more you push them down and the more you
trying to ignore them they just manifest
and get worse and worse and worse and
worse until you can't cope anymore
and what would you advise your younger
self your twelve year old self two
things I'd say speak to someone and I'd
tell myself that things do get better
because they have I don't know because I
didn't understand it when I was twelve
so it'd be hard but you're also
astonishingly open in the book about how
you feel about your kids are you talking
about your guilt yeah guilt as I said is
a massive part of the illness and um and
also I think just the way that I am
anyway and I do feel guilty because
they're people that I love more than
anything and all I want is for them to
have the happiest life possible and I
don't feel like I can always provide
exactly what I want to UM and that makes
me feel guilty because I don't want my
kids to ever look back in in question
my love for them and the same for Wayne
because he has to really he gets the
worst of it because he's my husband you
know like your partner always seems to
get the worst parts of you and he has to
throw out our whole relationship battle
we're not taking it personally or having
to deal with my down days and things
like that and you know if we all know
people around you in the way people are
does affect you and your mood and
sometimes I think oh you could have been
with someone that was like that but do
you also find a way to tell yourself
that feeling guilty is also wrong yeah I
can do that more now you know like it's
so weird the brain is just insane um
because I feel all those things and all
that guilt but I also have that side of
my brain that knows that that's not
really true and it just depends which
one wins on what day so what I'm feeling
really and you just kind of got to
accept that sort of struggle yeah
sometimes one side will win and
sometimes yeah and I think that is a lot
of it is acceptance and just not just
that acceptance of like you know I'm not
not looking at as looking at it as
something that needs to be fixed it's
more like I just something to be managed
and that's what I kind of do on a daily
basis is manage it rather than thinking
right this needs to all go away and then
you feel rubbish because it doesn't I
mean that's a very male response to
these sorts of things isn't that men
usually kind of want to fix it
yeah and Wayne's very good at not doing
that you know he just will give me a hug
or like the day that I spent in bed I
was able to do that because he took the
kid kids out to the park and then took
them for lunch whatever and then took
them in the garden when they got home
and they were happy it's Larry they
didn't care where I was you know they
were having a great time and then that
meant that I had the time that I needed
to kind of while I wear my sadness for a
few hours and then by like 5 o'clock I
was up downstairs joining in with the
boys outside and still didn't feel 100%
but he gives me
that opportunity to be able to get
through that without being like right
come on let's do this no you're fine
just get up like he did text me and say
maybe you should go out for a walk slash
run but that's not him being pushy or
whatever and I just said yeah I'll try
and he texts me a bit later did you
manage it no and your son okay we'll be
home soon you know it's not why didn't
you do that that will make you feel
better
you know you also I mean you but you
also swim in those murky waters of
social media that are yes terrible for
mental health you are regarded as an
influencer you know you've got a million
followers or more on Instagram and
Twitter and all of these things I mean
is that just a necessities that is that
part of the job and who you are or is
that something you actually enjoy it
took me a long time to accept Instagram
I was already on Twitter and Instagram
for me at the beginning was just an
annoyance because I was at war I already
give a lot of myself over in interviews
and work whatever and on Twitter at time
and I was I just another thing that I've
got to think about and at the time I was
like selfies are so self-indulgent I say
oh look I look good today so I'm gonna
post this picture and I just couldn't
get my head around that at the time and
then you know life happens it became a
more normal thing
I became self-employed and it became
very apparent that a lot of jobs were
based on at the time how many followers
you had what kind of stuff you put up
and all that jazz and so I had to get on
board I didn't really have a choice and
I fall in and out of love with it you
know like I do he's kind of part of the
reason why the book came around because
I chose to be a bit more open and honest
about how I was feeling sometimes and
the response I got made up of people
feel better but it also made me feel
better
um so that side of it is nice and
obviously I can earn money out of it and
that's great and but then there are
sometimes I feel like a bit of a
hypocrite because I want people to feel
good about their selves and then I'm
posting stuff about having a great day
or whatever but
I kind of taught myself that you know if
that girl that I'm following that looks
amazing in that bikini or whatever how
she makes me feel about myself is more
about me than her and I think a lot of
people need to kind of learn that
somewhere down the line is that just
because someone else is having a great
day and they're posting it that's not a
direct stab at you'd say oh you're
worthless and you're having a rubbish
day and look how great my life is why
can't she say she's having a great day
she's having a great day but my thing is
if you you have to have light and shade
and that's what I try to portray on mine
I try it's a delicate delicate
relationship yeah and I'm so pleased I
didn't have that in s cup juniors and I
didn't have it in the beginning of
Saturday's I didn't have it at school
and that that's nice um well I mean look
I think you know people who read that
book are gonna find it very helpful
whether they are sufferers themselves or
know somebody who's going through
everybody who comes on here gets to sort
of change the world a way they would
like to yeah how would you change the
world oh I told you I was going to think
about this would you take away you know
would you just take it away as a problem
I'm obviously I would love to that would
be one thing that I would love to change
but then I'm one of those people like
well if I'm gonna take that way then I
would have to take away all illness you
know you can't have one and I'll take
one and not all the others so obviously
I would love that is a hard one for
people to understand so I would okay
I'll take that away I would love to know
what life is life like without it I
would love to know that level of
happiness that other people know and I'd
like to give that to other people thank
you Bruce thank you very much indeed for
coming in show us to change the world
and talking about your life in such an
open way it's really fantastic and the
book is called open
why asking for help can save your life I
hope you enjoyed that if you did then
please do give us a racing and a review
you can watch all of these interviews on
the Channel 4 News YouTube channel our
producer is rachel evans until next time
bye bye