Let's move on now to January 6th and the conduct of Donald Trump
and Mark Meadows during the attack on the capital.
Mr Jensen. I'd like now for us to listen to a description.
Your description of what transpired in the West wing during the attack.
For context in this clip. You describe the timeframe starting at
about two p.m..
So I remember marking alone in his office for
Quite some time. And, you
know, we just spoke about Ben Williamson going in at one point, and
I don't personally remember them going and I don't doubt that he
had gone in, Um
But I remember him being alone in his office for most of the afternoon,
around two o'clock two of five o'clock to five. You know we were
watching the T V and I could see that the riders were getting
Closer and closer to the capital. Mark still hadn't popped out of
his office or said anything about it. So that's why I went into his
office. I saw that he was sitting on his couch.
On a cell phone.
Same as the morning we're here, just kind of scrolling and typing.
Um
I said, Hey, Are you watching the TV chief
video Small like you can see it, but I didn't know if he was really
paying attention watching the TV chief. It's like
Yeah, The writers are getting really close. Have you talked to the
president? He said No. He wants to be alone right now. Still looking
at his phone.
So I start to get frustrated because
No. I sort of felt like I was watching a
Not a great comparison. But a bad car accident. I was about to happen
where you can't stop it. But
You want to be able to do something
I have to remember. I remember thinking in that moment.
Mark needs to snap out of this, and I don't know how to snap him
out of this, but he needs to care. And I just remember, I blurted
out. I said Martine origins out right now.
And he looked up at me at that point, said Jim.
Marcus. He was on the floor a little while ago giving a floor speech.
Did you listen? And Yeah, it was really good. Did you like it? And
I said, Yeah.
Do you know where he's at right now? He said. No, I haven't heard
from him. You might want to check in with him Mark and remember pointing
at the T V and writers are getting close. They might get in.
Any argument, said
something to the effect of all right, I'll give him a call.
Not long after the rioters broke into the capital.
You described. What happened was White House counsel Pat Cipollone.
No more than a minute minute and a half later. I see past the bologna
barreling down the hallway towards our office
and rushed right and looked at me, said
Mark and his office and I said yes.
He just looked at me and started shaking his head. And whenever open
marks office store
stood there with the door propped open and said something to the
market, still sitting on his phone, remember like lancing, and he's
still sitting on his phone, and I remember Pat saying to him something
to the effect of
the writers have gotten to the capital Mark. We need to go down and
see the president now.
And Mark looked up at him say he doesn't want to do anything. Pat
Impact said something to the effect of and very clearly had.
So this to mark something to the effect of Mark. Something needs
to be done or people are going to die in. The blood is going to be
on your hands. This is getting out of control. I'm going down there,
and at that point mark stood up.
From his couch. Both postpones in his hand and his glasses on. Still,
he walked out with Pat. You put both of these phones on my desk and
let me know if Jim calls and they walked out and went down to the
dining room.
A few minutes later, representative Jordan's called back
Couple minutes later so likely around
between 2 15
to 25. The tweet went out that you have 24. I don't remember if I
was there when the tweet went out or happened right afterwards, But
Jim had called. I answered the phone, said one second, you know it
was
I guess he knew it was
introduced myself, but I don't remember if he called my cell phone
He had called marks. Um, one sec marks on the whole I'm going to
go hand the phone to me said Okay, so I went down. I asked the ballet
if Mark was in the dining room, Valley said, Yes. I opened the door
to the
Dining room briefly stepped in to get Mark's attention showed him
the phone, like flip the phone his way so you can see it, said Jim
Jordans, He'd stopped where I was standing there, holding the door
open, took the phone talking to Jim, with the door still propped
open, so I took a few steps back probably was two ft. From Mark.
He was standing in the doorway going to the Oval Office dining room.
They had a brief conversation and
In the
Crossfire's You know, I heard briefly. Like what? They were talking
about it in the background. I had heard conversations in the Oval
Dining room at the at that point, talking about the Hang Mike Pence
chance.
That clip ended Miss Hutchinson with you recalling that you heard
the President, Mr Meadows and the White House counsel discussing
the Hang Mike Pence chance And then you describe for us what happened
next?
Wasn't until
Mark hung up the phone handed it back to me. I went back to my desk
A couple minutes later, him and Pat came back. Possibly Erik Hersman,
too. I didn't pretty sure Eric person was there.
Yeah, but I'm I'm confident it was path That was there.
Um, I remember Pat saying something to the effect of Mark. We need
to do something more there, literally calling for the vice president.
The effing Hong and Mark had responded something to the effect of
you heard a pat he thinks might deserves it. He doesn't think they're
doing anything wrong, which passed said something.
This is I think crazy. We need to be doing something more briefly
stepped into Mark's office. And when Mark had said something, But
markets have said something to the effect of he doesn't think they're
doing anything wrong, knowing what I had heard briefly in the dining
room, coupled with pipe discussing the Hang Mike Pence chance in
the lobby of our office, and then Mark's response. I understood there
to be the writers in the capital that were
Chanting for the vice president to be hung.
Let me pause here on this point.
Rioters chanted Hang Mike Pence.
The president of the United States.
Donald Trump.
Said. That quote my deserves it.
And that those rioters were not doing anything wrong.
This is a sentiment that he has expressed at other times as well.
In an interview with ABC News correspondent Jonathan Karl
President Trump was asked about the supporters chanting Hang Mike
Pence last year.
Instead of condemning them. The former president defended them.
And hang my because it's it's common sense. It's common sense
that you're supposed to protect. How can you if you know a voter's
fraudulent, right, how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to Congress?
President Trump's view that the rioters were not doing anything wrong.
And that quote my deserved it.
Helps us to understand why the president did not ask the rioters
to leave the capital for multiple hours.
In fact, he put this tweet out at 2 24. PM
Miss Hutchinson. Do you recall seeing this tweet in which the president
said the vice president did not have the courage to do what needed
to be done.
I do.
Ms Hedges and what was your reaction when you saw this tweet?
As a staffer that works.
To always represent the administration.
The best of my ability.
And to showcase the good things that he had done for the country.
I remember feeling frustrated.
Disappointed.
Really? It felt personal. I was really sad.
As an American.
I was disgusted.
It was
Unpatriotic. It was un American. We are watching the Capitol building,
get two faced over a lie.
And it was something that was really hard in that moment to digest
knowing what I've been hearing down the hall.
In the conversations that were happening.
Seeing that tweet come up and knowing what was happening on the hill.
It's something that
It's still I still struggled to work through the emotions of that.
Said, is that we have also spoken to multiple other White House staff
about their reaction to Donald Trump's 2 24 tweets.
Condemning Mike Pence for not having the courage
To refuse to count electoral votes and act that would have been illegal.
Matthew Pottinger, a former Marine intelligence officer.
Who served in the White House before years, including including as
deputy National Security advisor, was in the vicinity of the Oval
Office at various points throughout the day.
When he saw that tweet
Immediately decided to resign his position.
Let's watch him described his reaction to the president's tweet.
One of my staff brought me a printout of a tweet
by the president and the tweet said something to the effect that
Mike Pence. The vice president didn't have the courage, um, to to
do what he what should have been done.
Um, I, uh I read that tweet. Uh huh, and made a
decision at that moment to resign. That's where I knew that I was
leaving that day. Once I read that tweet
Ultimately
Member of the White House staff, Sarah Mathews, Cabinet members Secretary
Chao and Secretary DeVos resigned as well.
Here is Secretary DeVos is resignation letter.
As you can see, in resigning on January, 6th Secretary, DeVos said
to the president quote, there's no mistaking the impact your rhetoric
had on the situation.
And it is the inflection point for me.
It's also look at Secretary Chao's resignation statement.
And Secretary Chao resigned. She spoke of the January 6th attack.
And she said, quote as I am sure is the case with many of you
This is deeply troubled me in a way I simply cannot set aside.
Miss Hutchinson. In our prior interviews. We've asked you about what
the president's advisers were urging him to do during the attack.
You've described roughly three different camps of thought inside
the White House that day. Can you tell us about those?
There is a group of individuals that were strongly urging him to
take immediate and swift action. I would classify the White House
counsel's office, Mr Hirschmann, Ms Ivanka Trump.
In that category of
Really working.
To get him to take action in pleading with him to take action.
There is a more neutral group.
Where
Advisors were trying to tow the line knowing that Mr Trump didn't
necessarily want to take immediate action.
And condemn the riots.
Um, but knowing something needed to be done, Um
And then there was the last group, which was
Deflecting blame.
Let's blame Antifa. These are our people.
It's my understanding that
Mr Meadows was in
The deflecting blame category, But he did end up taking a more neutral
route, knowing that there were several advisers in the president's
circle, urging him to take more action.
Um which I think was reflected in the rhetoric released later that
day in the videos.
You told us that the White House counsel's office was in the camp,
encouraging the president.
To tell the writers to stop the attack and to leave the capital.
Let's listen.
When I
wanted there to be a strong statement out, condemn the rioters confident
in that
Now, let's look at just one example of what some senior advisers
to the president were urging. Miss Hutchinson. Could you look at
the exhibit that we're showing on the screen now?
Have you seen this note before?
That's a note that I wrote at the direction of the chief of staff
on January six, likely around three o'clock.
And it's written on the chief of staff note card, but that's your
handwriting. Miss Hutchinson. That's my handwriting.
And why did you write this note?
The chief of staff was in a meeting with Erik Hersman, potentially
Mr Philbin, and they had to rush out of the office fairly quickly.
Market handed me the note card with one of his pens.
And sort of dictating a statement for the president to potentially
put out
And no, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Ah, there are two phrases on their one
illegal and then one without proper authority.
The illegal phrase was the one that Mr Meadows had dictated to me.
Mr Hirschmann had chimed in and said, also put without legal authority.
There should have been a slash between the two phrases it was or
if the president had opted to put one of those statements out.
Evidently, he didn't later That afternoon, Mark came back from the
Oval dining room and put the palm card on my desk.
With illegally crossed out.
I said we didn't need to take further action on that statement.
So, um, to your knowledge, this statement was never issued. It was
to my knowledge it was never issued.
Miss Hutchinson. Did you understand that? Ivanka Trump wanted her
father to send people home.
That's my understanding. Yes, Let's play a clip of you addressing
that issue.
I remember her saying at various points. No, she wants him. She wanted
her dad to send them home. She wanted her dad to tell them to go
home peaceful and she wanted to include language that he necessarily
wasn't on board with at the time.
You will hear more about this in our later hearings, but we have
evidence of many others imploring Donald Trump and Mark Meadows to
take action.
Here is some of that evidence text messages sent to Mark Meadows
during the attack.
This is a text message at 2 32 from Laura Ingram. Hey, mark, the
president needs to tell people in the capital to go home.
In the next message. This is hurting all of us, and then he's destroying
his legacy and playing into every stereotype. We lose all credibility
against the BLM antifa crowd. If things go south
The president's son. Don Jr also urgently contacted Mark Meadows
at 2 53, he wrote. He's got to condemn this ship ASAP.
The Capitol police tweet is not enough.
As you will see. These are just two of the numerous examples of Trump
supporters and allies urging the president to tell his supporters
to leave the capital.
Would not have been hard for the president to simply walk down to
the briefing room.
A few feet down the hall from the Oval Office.
Is, Nora O'Donnell noted during an interview with House Republican
leader Kevin McCarthy.
Where leader McCarthy said he believed the attack was UN American.
Want to quickly bring in Kevin McCarthy, the House minority leader,
leader McCarthy. Do you condemn this? Violence completely condemned
the violence in the capital. What we're currently watching unfold
un American. I am disappointed. Sad. This is not what our country
should look like. This is not who we are. This is not the first Amendment.
This has to stop to stop now Leader McCarthy President, United States
has a briefing room step
From the Oval Office. It is the cameras are hot 24 7, As you know,
why hasn't he walked down and said that now
I conveyed to the president. What I think is best to do and I'm hopeful
the president will do it.
Republican House member Mike Gallagher also implored the president
to call off the attack.
Mr President. You have got to stop this. You are the only person
who can call this off. Call it off. The election is over.
Call it off. This is bigger than you. It's bigger than any member
of Congress is about the United States of America.
Which is more important than any politician. Call it off.
It's over.
Despite the fact that many people close to Donald Trump were urging
him to send people home. He did not do so until later much later.
And 4 17. PM Donald Trump finally told the rioters to go home.
And that he loved them.
Here's a portion of the video president Trump recorded from the White
House.
We have to have peace. So go home. We love you. You're very special.
You've seen what happens. You see the way others are treated that
are so bad and so evil.