- [Niev] Did you just completely forget
everything we just said to you
about you appearing like a total (bleep) head,
and then as we're leaving, you make like a jest-ful remark?
"Miss you all?"
- No. - Dude.
Like, you really seem like a huge (bleep) head.
- So, let me just get this straight.
Do you have true feelings for Jennifer?
- I don't have any emotional feelings toward her.
(melancholy music)
I would never be able to have a romantic
relationship with her.
- Then why the (bleep) are we here?
- Well, she's actually not the only girl
I spoke to.
I felt like out of all the girls,
this is the perfect time, the perfect girl,
to finally come clean to, and end, like Skyler.
- What are you ever hoping to gain from all of
these half-true friendships that you have online?
What's the point?
- I wanted to brush up my game, it was just
something I did.
- You understand this all makes you look
like a huge (bleep), right?
- Yeah.
- Because I don't really give a (bleep)
that you wanted to come clean
and set the story straight
for all the other girls that you're being a
(bleep) to. Why did I bring this awesome
amazing girl from Iowa, so that you
could clear your conscience?
- 'Cause I feel like it's good for her
to finally know the truth, and...
- [Max] You could've told her that
on the phone though, right?
- Yeah, but in a way, I wanted to end Skyler
and I feel like by telling Jen who I am,
that ends Skyler.
- Right, but that's all about you.
That's you taking care of your business
and not really caring about how
that's affecting someone else.
It's kind of selfish.
- Yeah. A little bit.
- I don't really care anymore.
- First of all, I'm really impressed with how
well you're handling this. - I'm probably going to puke.
- So you're literally fishing
and hooking girls and then tossing them back
into the ocean with scars.
- Yeah, I would stop speaking to them.
- But are you sorry? Or do you feel like you
didn't do anything wrong here?
- I don't know if I'm sorry,
but it is what it is. I was giving her a gift.
Being in that relationship.
- You were giving her a gift?
- Yeah, I mean, she was happy, and I know I was
leading her on, but I knew it would never be
permanent.
- It just seems really shallow that you would
lead these girls on to brush up on your game.
- I guess it could seem that way, yeah.
- You're going to have a shallow, miserable
existence and people are going to think you're
a douche-bag.
- Were you and Sarah Grace ever in on that
profile together, really?
- Not like together, no.
- Did you take Sarah's pictures without her
knowing and create the Kierstin profile?
- Okay, no. There was already pictures on there
and I took over from there. I didn't create the
profile myself or anything like that.
- We strongly believe that that's not true.
- That's true though. That's full of (bleep).
You're looking at me like I'm lying and--
- I don't believe that.
- Well you don't have to believe that. I'm not
here to convince you.
- Who started the Kierstin profile?
- It wasn't honestly me.
- Who was it then? Because Sarah told us
in a very honest-seeming way, and I believe her,
that she was talking to this girl named Kendra.
- (bleep) Sarah! She's not (bleep) here.
You want to fly her ass out here,
let's (bleep) fly her ass out here.
- You want to get her on Skype?
We can get her on Skype. - That's ridiculous.
I'm so sick and tired of you telling you that
I'm lying when I'm sitting here crying while
my kids in the (bleep) hospital.
Where the (bleep) I should be.
Not here trying to (bleep) convince you
of anything. (dramatic music)
- You can't manipulate it just by crying.
- I'm not manipulating anything.
- You cry and then we can't ask you anything
else. - That's not true.
- Yes it is true.
- I can cry all day long and (bleep) talk to you
because that's the fucking truth.
- Yesterday, Sarah Grace was in on it and--
- I lied.
- Okay, so you were lying yesterday
but now, this is--
- Yeah, it took a minute because
I'm going through so much emotional (bleep)
looking at my phone and (bleep) you won't just
shut up and listen to me. Shut up.
Talking to him is (bleep) pointless.
- You know what? I'm done. I don't need to talk
to you anymore.
You guys can finish this without me.
How about that? There.
(dramatic music)
- Problem solved.
- Why with me for ten years?
- Because I didn't have that bond with nobody
else for ten years. I don't have no one else
that I can call a friend.
I have associates. If I really wanted you,
I would've told you. "This is me
and I'm in love with you,"
I didn't feel that way, you know what I'm saying?
I'm being real and honest. - I don't buy it.
- I know it's messed up.
- That's so heartless. You're just so needy
and you don't have anyone else to talk to
and you don't care about her feelings or
how you're affecting her, (bleep) her over,
wasting her life, because you're like a
a little baby and you need to cry,
you need to cry to her? - I care about her feelings.
- Not really. Come on, man. This is like
getting in a fight with someone in kindergarten.
You're like, "I was never friends with you
anyway." - Nah.
- Yeah, it feels that immature.
Like "when I told you, that was fake."
(dramatic music) - I saw the letter.
- Yeah.
- That thing was written with passion.
You can't fake that.
(David laughs) - I was about to say thank you
because I'm telling you...
- That was fake. That was a fake love letter?
- I mean, yeah. - I don't believe that.
- It's not our place, but I'm just saying
I know that's not true. - That's the point.
It wasn't even for me to believe, for ya'll
to believe. It was written for her
to believe, she believed it at that moment.
- Because you wanted to make sure she stayed
dedicated to being your close friend.
- Basically.
- I just feel like it's full of shit.
- Don't sit up here and get mad at me over
something that you did also. She lied to me too.
- When did I lie?
- At first you were telling me
you was another female.
- No, I wasn't. - With blonde hair.
A white girl. - A white girl?
- So you're saying when you first met, Andrea,
you thought she looked like someone else?
- Yeah, she was sending me pictures of another
female. - I was in 6th grade,
how am I gonna know how to make up somebody's
picture and put it up there?
That don't even make no sense.
- The same reason that I was able to do it.
- That was you. That ain't me.
- Guys, it's hard to know what you're telling
the truth about and what you're not telling
the truth about. Because you kept some big,
big lies going for ten years.
- At the end of the day, there were certain
things I was telling about the truth,
and certain things that I wasn't telling
about the truth. That's all.
- [Roman] Well, we looked at your page.
Your real page, and found a picture of a ring
and a message that looked like it was from me.
- He sent her that ring.
- I never sent her a ring at all.
- When Loida opened that envelope, it had
your name on it. You did send that to her, Roman.
- I never sent her a ring.
- If he's saying he didn't send it,
sorry to tell you Ramon,
somebody pretend to be him and he doesn't know?
- Loida, you want to explain that to your mom
for us? - What?
- How that all happened?
- What happened?
- The ring. - The ring.
- Ramon gave you money. - It was birthday money.
- You went online, you bought yourself a ring,
you mailed it yourself, and in front of
your mother, you lied to her and told her
he had sent it to you. Am I wrong?
- Are you surprised though?
That she sent the ring? - Whatever.
- No, not whatever. It's important.
These details are important.
- Whatever!
- You're not really hearing. - Yes I am. Yes I am.
- No you're not. Your daughter is a liar.
- My daughter is a liar? What about Ramon?
- Ramon has his own issues to deal with.
- I can see that.
- Okay. And part of what I hope
we can do today, is everybody admits
their issues. I encourage you to
take this opportunity to take responsibility
for what you've done.
Same to you, okay? I'm just here to try and
encourage you to be honest with yourselves.
- Since we've been making the show, every girl
or guy that's been in Ari's place fears that
they're talking to some
mid-40-something year old man who's sad,
sitting at home in his crusty boxers, like,
typing into the computer. And you're that guy.
We finally met you.
And that sucks for you.
- Right. Totally.
- Yeah. But it also sucks even more for Ari
and all the other girls who's time you wasted.
(melancholy music)
You're not the victim here.
- He's told me that he'd break up with Liz
for me. Obviously he didn't tell you guys
that story.
- Nope. - No.
Whatever.
- But, like I said...
- It's not whatever, if you have this girl that
you love so much, that you've been having a
relationship with for a year and a half,
why are you-- - Right.
- sending pictures of your (bleep)?
- Wasn't trying to get any sexual conversation
out of you. - Come on, man.
- Don't pretend, and I won't either, that you're
holier than any other guy in the world.
- No, no.
- We're the same here, okay?
- Wait, time out. I don't do that shit.
- Yes, yes! Just be realistic for a second.
- Vince called us in under the pretense that he
wanted to get this girl the hell out of his life
because she's ruining his relationship with his
girlfriend, who he loves so much--
- Come on, man. You're making me look like a
(bleep) asshole.
- You're kinda making yourself look pretty bad.
I mean, Liz has good reason to have suspicions
about why you weren't blocking Alyssa.
- I wasn't trying to get back in a relationship.
- It was something on the side that you wouldn't
let go of for Liz. Which is all she wanted.
- I mean, yeah.
- Why don't we go back to the hotel.
We'll be in touch with you. - Yeah, that's fine.
- Figure out another time to meet back up.
- All-right.
(dramatic music)
(car door shuts)
- You had to know that she was going to
bring that up.
- I understand. I (bleep) up. I get that.
What are you trying to say?
- If you truly love somebody, you got to not do
anything to compromise that.
That (bleep) will come out.
- So you're recording?
- Yeah, our conversation.
- You're recording all this?
- Are you kidding me?
- That's so (bleep) up.
- Yeah.
- Look, Niev, just take a step back so he can't
look over your shoulder. Don't worry about him.
He'll find or not find whatever he's looking for.
- Yeah.
- I'm finding some stuff on your phone.
- Okay. I mean, I didn't scrutinize...
- I know enough about how to keep things private
to know to look in your Google Drive, which you
probably didn't think I was going to go into.
I found one list that you keep in your
Google Drive list of girls, Jamie in parenthesis,
next to it it says Portland,
Former Playboy model. And then you have a
status list underneath. For Megan, it says,
"on the level of saying I love you,"
lives in Vegas, doesn't know she's being
cat-fished. Lauren, also on the level of saying
I love you, lives in Palm Springs, doesn't know
she's being cat-fished. Deborah, been talking for
a while, she lives in Illinois, wants to meet
Lucas badly, watch out for that subject,
doesn't know she's being cat-fished.
Jamie, talking since November, Ursula told her
she's being cat-fished.
So you were keeping notes.
- 400 girls. - He categorized me.
- You're not even listening.
You want your damn phone back.
- In the videos, which I went through,
I found a lot. Weirdly, they come up as videos,
but when I go to play them they don't play,
which is maybe because it saved the thumbnail
but it deleted the actual video.
But you can see here... - Oh, Jesus.
- One of you, this is a picture of you.
Lot of pictures of girls that are clearly
masturbating, or... so you still have that video.
- Okay, well, the thing is...
- So you have our pictures saved.
- I don't ever look at that stuff. They're never
going to be shared with anybody.
- How do we know this is truly over? Because
you don't seem to give a (bleep).
- It's not fun anymore at this point to have
something going just to know that it's going to
come to an end as bad as something like this is.
- There's something really odd and off about
the way you're talking about everything.
It's not that you're overcome with guilt
by the sheer pain and embarrassment that you're
causing these girls, it's about the fact that, oh
you just don't want to get into a relationship
that you're going to have to end. None of it
had to do with, "I'm hurting a lot of people,
and that makes me feel terrible inside."
- I thought that was obvious because
it's obvious that I'm hurting these people,
and I know that.
- It's obvious that you're hurting these people,
but what's not obvious is that you
care about that.
- Honestly, I don't think you even have feelings.
That's how I feel.
- I think that's how we all feel.
- I do. - I don't believe in anything
that you have to say. I don't.
- Right. Which leads me to my next thing
which is, there's only one way to tell if you're
sorry, and that's by stopping.
- You're right. You're 100% right.
- Prove me right.
- All-right, so we'll be in touch and let you
know about meeting back up.
- Thanks, guys.
- All-right. See you later.
- Miss you all.
(ominous music)
- Wait, what did you say at the end?
Miss you all? - Yeah.
- What is that? That just sounded like a joke?
Like did you really just say "Miss you all"
like a playful remark?
- I do miss you.
- Did you just completely forget everything
we said to you about appearing like a total
(bleep) and then as we're leaving you make a
jest-ful remark?
Miss you all? - No.
- Dude, you really seem like a huge (bleep) head.
- Yeah. - So think about that.
- Working on it.
- That's...
- Thank you.
(door closes)
- Nailed it. (horror music)
- I want to hear a thing that you've been
thinking that you were going to say.
I want to hear how good it is.
- I have nothing to say.
- I don't believe it.
- You have all you have anyway. You don't have to
have a conclusion to how a person is.
- But what's your story?
- I (bleep) cat-fish people and I'm cool with it.
You don't have to be cool with the things...
- I just want to know, are you proud of it?
- Yeah, I'm proud of myself. Because I do
a damn good job. Why are you going to
waste your breath saying anything to me anymore?
- I don't want you to make other people
feel like (bleep). - They shouldn't have to.
- You put people in positions to make them
feel like (bleep), admit it.
- But you fell for it, though, didn't you.
I make people feel like shit because
they want to, because they--
- I wanted to feel like (bleep)?
- You already did. You ain't (bleep).
- Your argument is "you ain't (bleep),
you already (bleep)?"
(chair scraping across the floor)
- Great.
- [Niev] I just don't feel like she deserves the couch time.
(ominous music)
- Hey bro, how's it going. My name's Kelsey.
I'm Adam the Gambler.
- Oh, wow. (Adam giggles)
So what's your endgame here?
- Just have fun with you, man. That was it.
You know, it was a game and it's over now.
- So this is all just fun and games.
- Yeah, really, it is, yeah.
- Is there something else more meaningful
that you think you proved with this?
- No. There's no deeper meaning to any of this.
- Who's pictures are you using?
- Actually, a girl I know from high school.
- Do you have a job. Are you in school?
- Yeah, this is like my job right now.
I'll go here, I time the jackpots, do whatever
I want on my phone, time the jackpots,
win about 60 bucks for the night, go home.
- How do you know you're going to win
the jackpot?
- I have an algorithm, you see. I count the
number of people in here, right? And then I have
all the times on my phone, I can even
show you that, I have all the times that
they've ever gone off. - He's rigged it.
- Yeah. In between jackpots there's a transition
period where you're waiting for the thing.
I'd log in here, pretend to be Kelsey,
talk to him a while, just something to do
to pass the time.
- Did you create that psychology group
to lure people in to mess with them, to carry on
fake relationships with?
- I took advantage of the fact that I had
this group up, yeah, let's add this other account
of mine in there and let's see
who we can mess with, you know?
- How many people do you think you've cat-fished?
- I would say about maybe 30, 40? Around there?
It's interesting to me, and fun.
- Is your relationship with Ellie something that
you even care about? Or are you just using her?
- Oh, no. I care about Ellie.
She's my girlfriend, it's not a cover-up.
I have genuine feelings for her.
- I've talked to Ellie before. Sweet girl.
Amazing girl. What in the (bleep) world
makes you think you're getting anywhere
with that?
- I can justify anything. I can justify anything.
- So how'd you like my (bleep) pic?
- It was interesting. Thank you for sending
it to me, I really want that on my computer.
- You (bleep) yourself off to this (bleep).
(Adam giggles)
- No, I deleted it quickly after.
- Did you just wake up this morning and say,
you know what, I want to play a bad guy on TV?
I just want to be the worst version of myself
I can be, is that what you decided?
- Yeah!
- Is this really who you are right now?
- This is really who I am. I'm the joker.
- I mean...
- This is the kind of loser
that gives our show a bad name.
Are we really sitting here giving him
any airtime?
- I'm the king of cat-fishes, right?
- No you're not. - I am.
I'm the King Catfish. - You're really not.
- I'm done here, I'm done. I'm done.
- [Niev] It's just a big waste, that's all.