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(Relaxing Music)
What's up guys, Michael here
and today we're going to talk about
what's perhaps Tom Hardy's finest cinematic work, Venom.
Say what you will and critics certainly did,
but something about this movie really resonated with
audiences.
Granted that resonance was often overly sexual,
but a win's a win, right?
In fact, the sequel is already upon us
absurdly titled Venom, let there be Carnage
and missed all the hype.
One talking point is really stuck out to us,
director Andy Serkis in the actual production notes,
characterize the film as a love story between Eddie Brock
and the symbiote.
Did not see that one coming,
and as wild as it may seem, there's precedent here.
Searches for the term Symbrock exploded
upon the movies release, with the fandom going to bat
for an Eddie and symbiote romance.
It's even in the source material,
plenty of comics characterize their bond as straight up
love.
So what is it about the symbiotic bond of a human being and
an alien goo boy that leads people to a romantic
interpretation?
Is there deeper meaning behind it or are we just looking for
love in all the wrong places?
Grab a bowl of tater tots, and chocolate,
and settle in for this wisecrack edition on Venom,
a love story?.
And spoilers for the first Venom movie
and some of the comics.
But before we get into it,
I want to give a shout out to this week sponsor
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And now back to the show.
Now for a quick recap,
Venom follows Eddie Brock, an investigative journalist
who's going to every length to take down a mad scientist
type, even if it includes
snooping on his fiance Anne work emails.
While investigating, Eddie accidentally merges with an
aggressively deep voiced alien symbiote,
AKA parasite and chaos ensues.
So at this point, you're probably thinking
"This doesn't sound like the plot of a classic romcom",
but if you take away all the rad action sequences,
the film is, at its core, an exploration
of two intense relationships, Eddie and Anne,
and Eddie and the symbiote.
And the key of understanding the ladder comes in
the form of their classic catchphrase:
- We are Venom.
- [Michael] It may seem like simple fan service in the film,
but the line is actually very illuminating.
See, in his essay Loves Bond,
philosopher Robert Nozick explores
the notion of a "Love Union", specifically he suggests
that being in a romantic pairing or in this case,
a shared body bromance with someone actually result in the
formation of a whole new identity.
He states: "With this continuing romantic love,
it feels to the two people that they have united to form and
constitute a new entity in the world, what might be called
a we".
To Nozick, each party keeps their individual identity
with all of its accompanying wants, hopes and fears,
but in fully embracing your partner's identity
you actually combine it with your own.
And Nozick's we, the couple feels
each other's highs and lows as if they were their own.
Through this lens, the ending of Venom
becomes more than an amazing action set piece.
It's an affirmation of the love
between Eddie and the symbiote,
and their embrace of the close bond that now defines them.
They may be at odds for much of the film.
- It is peaceful up here.
- I'm not very good with heights.
- [Michael] But when they finally declare
- We are Venom
- [Michael] and their shared face shows
half Eddy and half symbiote, it's the first step
in forming and growing their new shared identity.
It's a literalization of a very real phenomenon that Nozick
ascribes to a love relationship, the combining of two
separate entities into something new and different, a we.
Nozick says this new identity as a we consists of
(A) The two wanting to be recognized together publicly
(B) The partners mutually tending
to their collective wellbeing.
And (C) A division of labor, which we especially
see in the trailer for the sequel.
- [Venom] Ta-dah!
Ketchup?
- Excuse me?
- [Michael] But of course, forming a we
isn't all fun and games.
Nozick also notes that love means:
Though again, it's more of a bromance
than sensual long walks on the beach,
but we still see the literalization
of this phenomenon in Venom,
after all, the two literally share a body,
an experience which puts Eddy at
no shortage of risky situations.
And of course, forming any partnership
requires making compromises.
Nozick writes:
And that brings us to the most interesting difference
between the film's two central relationships.
Compare the way Eddie behaves with the symbiote
to the way he behaves with Anne.
He makes it clear that he values his own goals and autonomy
over hers when he snoops in her inbox.
His identity as an investigative journalist is stronger than
his identity as a romantic partner,
and he fundamentally violates Anne's trust,
which ends up costing her, her job.
- What you did got me fired
- [Michael] Eddie wasn't willing to compromise
for the sake of the relationship
or to consult and about such a massive decision.
With Venom, however, Eddie takes
a decidedly more considerate approach.
He is, understandably, freaked out
by the symbiote to need to eat people,
but compromises nonetheless.
He communicates his needs to the symbiote,
whether it's his stipulations for who they can harm.
- You cannot just go around eating anybody that you want to
- [Michael] Or simply some space
to do his journalistic work.
- [Eddie] I need you to stay quiet. This is a me thing.
It is not a we thing, you got that?
- [Venom] Fine, but make it quick.
- [Michael] And of course, Eddie shares a body
with a symbiote, fully surrendering
his own physical autonomy.
Nozick argues that surrendering some individual autonomy
is actually a desirable aspect of being in love,
and that you're yielding to your union.
We see both the symbiote and Eddie do just that,
when they commit to sharing the same body.
It's noteworthy that the partnership that his Venom
ends the film walking off to plan their day together.
- [Venom] We can do whatever we want.
- [Michael] Meanwhile, Eddie's relationship with Anne
appears to basically be over, at least for now.
- Don't give up on her.
- And Nozick's love union doesn't just apply to the movie.
It's also been a common thread throughout
the history of Venom as a property.
The comic book source material has been clear that this bond
is more than mere cooperation.
In one of their earliest appearances,
Eddie says that the symbiote has given him things
no girlfriend ever could, as their bond grew,
Venom even straight up called their bond a marriage.
And Nozick states that:
If this is true, then most of what
we've looked at so far from comics,
to the film adaptation, would point towards
Venom being an example of how to exist in a relationship.
But unfortunately for anyone using this as a model for their
own relationship, that's definitely not the case.
They've done truly horrible things to each other in the
comics, both while being bonded and apart.
The symbiote has implanted false memories into Eddie's brain
to compel him to stay, and Eddie has sold
the symbiote off to the highest bidder
without so much as a discussion.
It's safe to say that in the end,
their relationship in the comics has been
the definition of toxic and going
by Nozick's theory of love, this could come down
to one variable not seen in the film. Spider-Man.
See, in the majority of the adaptations of Venom story,
the symbiote actually bonds with Spider-Man
before he binds with Eddie.
But the feelings are ultimately one sided
and Spider-Man violently dumps him,
leaving him with a burning desire for revenge.
And this is what drives the symbiote toward Eddie,
with the goal of killing Spider-Man.
According to Nozick, this would be an untenable
foundation for their relationship.
Nozick asserts that this desire to form a we
for its own sake, is key,
rather than any sort of transactional or value based reason.
Essentially, if you are forming the we,
because you'll want something other than simply to be with
your partner, then Nozick argues that it's not really love.
In other words, Nozick doesn't think
love can be utilitarian, which means,
you can't really be in love with someone
just because they own the fanciest
hot dog shop in your town.
While in the comics, Venom does end up
in some form of loving issue attachment,
this undermines their union from the get-go,
and is arguably what leads to their
intensely toxic behavior.
In contrast in the movie, the symbiote chooses Eddie
out of an appreciation for who he is,
not how he can help them get what he wants.
So if the core of a relationship is
treating each other well, then the movie
might show us the best case scenario
of Eddie and the symbiote bond.
They ultimately decide to stay together
because they share a mutual understanding,
even if the symbiote is a bit harsh about it.
- [Venom] I have decided to stay.
- Wow.
- [Venom] On my planet I'm kind of a loser, like you.
- [Michael] They demonstrate genuine empathy
and care for each other and their cooperation
lets each of them accomplish far more than they could alone.
The film is bookended by Eddie's Cornerstore being robbed.
The first time, Eddie stands by helplessly,
but the second time, Venom takes action.
That's some very ravenous teamwork.
And sure, they might bicker sometimes,
but what couple doesn't.
It's basically when Harry met Sally for the modern era.
So does this explain why we just can't resist
shipping this unlikely pair? Well, yes and no.
Their relationship might closely mirror Nozick's
philosophical take on love,
but there are complicated truths to contend with.
Not to put too fine a points on it,
but Venom is essentially a talking pile of gloop,
even peak era Meg Ryan couldn't make that seem romantic.
Still the core of Venom is universal.
Two beings get to know each other like no one else,
and in turn they feel like they have to be together.
They can tell us that it's a story
about revenge or justice all they want,
but despite it being between a screwed up has been,
and some runny alien Play-Doh, we know love when we see it.
[Loud Crunch]
But what do you guys think?
Can two bros find love and a weird symbiotic relationship?,
or are people just weird and willing to romanticize anything
so long as it leads to good fanfic?
Let us know what you think in the comments.
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