We are constantly being bombarded
with information.
What to do, what to think,
what to value.
Before we can make effective
decisions in our work life,
our personal life,
in our work relationships, in our
personal relationships, we have
to take the time to think about,
what is it that we truly value?
What is it that we prioritize?
Today we'll look at how best to
do this.
My name is Matt Abrahams,
and I teach strategic communication
at Stanford Graduate School of
Business.
Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart,
The Podcast.
[MUSIC]
Today I am happy to be joined by
Charlotte Burgess-Auburn.
Charlotte teaches classes at
Stanford's Hasso Plattner Institute
of Design, also known as
the d.school, where she serves as
the Director of Community.
Charlotte recently published
a d.school guide called, You Need
a Manifesto: How to Craft Your
Convictions and Put Them to Work.
It's super exciting to have you
here today, Charlotte.
Welcome, thanks for being here.
>> Thanks so much.
I'm really excited to be here.
>> Great, let's get started.
Before we dive into crafting creeds
and making manifestos, I was struck
by a line in your bio that said,
you see yourself as
an extroverted introvert.
I believe a lot of our listeners
see themselves the same way.
I'd love to have you elaborate on
what being an extroverted introvert
means for you, and how it shows up
in your work and personal life.
>> I think of myself as
an introvert because I really
identify with the definition of
an introvert as somebody who really
needs to go be by themselves in
order to recharge, right?
So that in the presence of people
they're sort of using energy.
But in order to regain energy they
need to go away from people and
be quiet.
And that describes me to a T.
But when I am with people I'm very
energetic and outgoing.
I'm excited to be with them.
I just can't do it for a very,
very long period of time without
exhausting myself.
[LAUGH] I cherish my time alone to
reflect and recharge, as well as
loving to be the center of a party.
>> [LAUGH] All right, and I think
a lot of people feel that way.
I sit on the high extreme of
extroversion, so to hear that
sounds a little foreign to me, but
I can absolutely see how
many people like yourself and
our listeners might feel that way.
Let's get into manifestos.
What are they?
Who are they for?
And how do they help
us in different areas of our lives?
>> So a manifesto is a statement of
purpose and a script for action.
My take on a manifesto is kind of
a more modern and personal one.
I think that rather than recruiting
others, what we really need to do
these days is to recruit ourselves.
We are currently in the middle of
a maelstrom of being recruited by
everyone at every moment.
I mean, anybody with a telephone in
their pocket is
constantly being recruited,
their attention is being drawn.
And I think we need to spend some
time to recruit
ourselves to our own cause.
And a personal manifesto is
a compass, a navigation tool
to help you find your way through
what, at the moment, feels like
a pretty hazardous navigation
[LAUGH] scheme through life.
>> I think it's so powerful to
allow ourselves time to just think
about what's important to us, and
to give ourselves some direction,
be it if we're starting out in
our careers, or perhaps pivoting,
or making choices.
So I like this
idea of recruiting yourself.
>> Yeah, I mean, if you're not
living life according to your own
values, you're most likely living
them according to someone else's.
So really giving yourself the time
to explore that,
I think is pretty critical.
>> I'd like to talk more about
values.
In your book, you talk about how
values serve as the essential first
ingredients for our manifestos.
How can we identify and
prioritize our values?
>> So values are really, I had
a hard time with this at first, I
really thought, how do I figure out
what it is that I value [SOUND]?
If it feels intimidating
somehow that you need get to
some deep standard of being,
the more I read about it,
the more I understood that values
are literally that, they are what
you value in your life.
And some of them can be deeply
held and really immovable for you.
And then others are kind of like,
what do you value today,
[LAUGH], right?
I value my latte today [LAUGH].
But getting to your values, right?
Is a process, it doesn't come to
you out of the blue.
You're not awakened to it in some
amazing way.
And it can be really easy.
I do a little exercise
with students that I have
put into the book,
which is I asked people to think
about things that they love doing.
To create a little thought
experiment where they write
down some really
nicely flowery language,
detailed flowery language about
something that they love to do, and
then to pick apart that language,
or to find the types of activities
that they get excited about, and
why they get excited about them.
So I have them use a special
format, which is,
I love to do this because of this.
And anything that comes after
the word because has a verb in it.
And if you go looking for
that verb, that verb is
going to suggest something about
what it is that you value.
So it's really just about digging
in your own understanding,
making it easy for yourself to
identify things, which then you can
spend time with, right?
You can identify these first
versions of it using these kinds
of exercises.
Then you can interrogate that.
You can say,
do I really value that?
Why do I value that?
>> Yeah, so I hear you say several
things there.
One is, we don't have to put these
values on this pedestal.
They can be minor,
they can be major, and that there
are some pretty simple ways that we
can go to identify our values.
I enjoy doing this because,
is a simple way.
And then we can look in,
interrogate and prioritize and
look at which are more or
less important.
Which sounds much easier than when
I first read your book and thought,
my goodness, I have to think about
what are my core values?
Once you have these values
identified, how do we go
about creating our manifesto?
Can you walk us through your 5C
process that you talk about?
>> Yeah, these are the elements
that you need to be investigating
and exploring.
You need to commence.
You need to begin.
So you need to be willing to begin.
You need to do some
work to consider the place you find
yourself in, your context, your
bias, your goals, and your values.
And you just spend a little time
working on those things to
understand them and
to describe them.
So the core, what I ask people to
do to create a first manifesto,
is to find sources of inspiration
that that they can
use as raw material to create
their own manifesto out of.
So go find someone else's
manifesto, pull it apart, and
put it back together as your own,
as a way to begin, right?
It is not the last manifesto that
you should make.
It is the first one you should
make, because it's the easiest one
to do, [LAUGH], right?
And as soon as you get the first
one done,
you're on the road to really
developing a sense of how you
want to use that navigational tool.
And it- >> It sounds to me like
your process is really about two
things, giving yourself permission
to start, and to recognize that
a manifesto is a living document,
it changes, it evolves.
And it strikes me that, and
correct me if I'm wrong, it's less
about the product of the manifesto
itself, but it's much more
about the process that's important.
Do I have that right?
>> Yeah, I mean, I think it is much
more about the process, and yet
the product is the thing that
then allows you to engage
into the process, right?
If you keep your values and your
beliefs inside, and in your head,
and don't get them out of
your head and out onto paper,
you can't really have
a great conversation with them.
I think being able to manifest
things outside of yourself allows
you to see them from a slightly
different perspective, and to
engage with them in ways that are
very intentional and deliberate.
And that's all you really need to
be able to do,
is to engage with your values and
beliefs in intentional and
deliberate ways that then allow you
to create shortcuts for yourself.
So that when you are confronted
with a moment of difficulty or
a place where you need to make
a decision that might be difficult,
you have something to lean on.
>> Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of
parallels between this preparation
of a manifesto that you're talking
about to things that we've
talked a lot about before on this
podcast in terms of communication.
Preparing yourself, if you're
preparing a presentation or for
a Q&A session, you would spend
some time thinking about,
what are the important things I
want to cover, and how do I want to
structure it, and where are my
values around these certain issues?
And it sounds like a manifesto
essentially does that, not for
a presentation,
but for our lives, and helps give
us something to refer to.
I find that very intriguing.
It allows us to use some skills
that we use for other circumstances
and apply them to ourselves.
Do you have specific advice for
people on how to actually
share their manifestos,
to communicate it?
Is it, let me share my manifesto,
or these three ideas, or
is it developing stories that
you tell over and over again that
reflect what's important to you?
How do you best communicate your
manifesto?
>> The things that I talk about in
the book is that form and
style matter, right?
The old Marshall McLuhan quote,
the medium is the message,
is very much at play here.
It really does matter the way that
you decide to present it, and
both the format that you use and
the form that it takes.
But people should choose a format
and a form that speaks to
them where they need to see it.
In the manifesto project that I
run, the easiest method to create
a first manifesto is to collage,
right?
And so that's what I
have people do.
I have them use scissors and
glue sticks, and I have manifestos
printed out, and they cut
out the pieces that they want, and
they collage it all together in
ways that are interesting to them
as a first draft, right?
This is their very first draft.
And then the next thing I asked
them to do is to really
think about, where do you
want this to show up in your life?
What are the moments that
are sticky for you?
Where are the moments where you
either take time to reflect, or
where you most need something to be
staring you in the face
to talk to you about your values?
Is it your phone background?
Is it your Zoom background?
Do you want it to be
a communication tool to help
introduce yourself to other people
so that you can begin your
relationships with other people
in a very transparent and
authentic way?
That may be the Zoom background
version, which is like,
ask me about my manifesto, right?
[LAUGH] And some people may be
like, I don't really want to talk
to people about my manifesto,
but I need to have it.
When I'm in conflict with myself,
or in conflict with others, or
I'm feeling at a crossroads in
some way.
And maybe that's something that
it's in a little, I had a former
boss of mine who had it on
a laminated card in his wallet,
just had one sentence.
[LAUGH] That was his kind of thing.
And whenever he needed it, he would
just pull it out of his wallet.
>> I always love talking to people
from the d.school because it's all
about glue sticks and
Post-it notes.
>> [LAUGH] I know, right?
>> And I think that's fun.
And I think it points to that there
can be a very tactile and playful
nature to something very serious.
>> Yeah- >> It becomes earnest.
>> Play is critical, I think,
in this case as well.
But the thing that I think it
really does for me and for
the students that I'm working with
here, is that it really eliminates
that intimidation factor.
Because when you're playing,
the result is something
that might be marvelous, but
it doesn't count in some way.
It doesn't count against you, and
I think that piece is terrific,
it's like everyone wins [LAUGH].
>> So we started talking about how
you make it approachable by
devaluing, if you'll allow me,
the importance of values, right?
>> Yeah. >> So it's more
approachable, but also in the way
you actually physically constructed
is also playful, and both of those
make it more approachable.
What I'm taking away from your
comments about communication are,
each of us will create our own need
and ways of communicating our
manifesto.
There's no one right way.
Some of us will want to broadcast
it, and others of us might want to
keep it very private and personal.
But part of it strikes me,
I think of creating a manifesto is
to think about, how do I want to
share it beyond myself?
And I think that in and of itself
is a valuable thought process.
Well, I've thoroughly enjoyed our
conversation.
Before we end I'd like to ask
you the same three questions I ask
everyone who joins me.
Are you up for that?
>> I am, absolutely.
>> All right,
if you were to capture the best
communication advice you have ever
received in a five to seven-word
presentation slide title,
what would it be?
>> Okay, so mine is,
it's not about you.
Which is advice that I got from the
wonderful Julian Gorodsky, who was
a psychologist who worked with us
in the early days of the d.school.
And really helped me to understand
that, when I am communicating with
other human beings, which is pretty
much what I do, [LAUGH], right?
Most of the time.
When they're talking to me about
things that may sound like they're
about me, or about my work, or
about my project, or
about the d.school,
what they're really talking about
is what matters to them, right?
When I'm listening to people I need
to be listening for, not what's
wrong with me or what's right with
me, but what's with them, right?
Where are these people coming from?
And the ways in which I can
communicate with them best will
respond to the things that they
care about.
>> So it's really reminding
yourself to be focused on
the audience, the other person,
and to take that perspective.
About empathy, and we've talked
a lot about that on this podcast.
Let me ask you question two.
Who is a communicator
that you admire and why?
>> One of the people whose
communication skill I admire so
much is Sarah Stein Greenberg
who is the executive director of
the d.school.
And she is one of those people who
can choose their words incredibly,
beautifully.
Just feel like when she talks about
stuff, I just I'm like, wow,
that is amazing.
And I think the reason why I admire
it so much is because it's so
different from my own communication
style, which is much more gut.
[LAUGH] Laying it all out there,
and also terribly circuitous,
right?
And so communicators like that,
who are these incredibly cogent and
clear, setting up your
arguments and knocking them down,
are the folks who I really admire
mostly because they're different
from myself [LAUGH].
>> I've gotten to know Sarah over
the last year or so, and
she was a guest on this show.
And her book is fantastic as well.
And I agree, she is very articulate
and she's very good at connecting
with people she speaks to.
And those are skills that I hear
you admiring in others as well as,
as do I.
Our final question, question three,
what are the first three
ingredients that go into
a successful communication recipe,
from your perspective?
>> I have thought about these for
a minute and here they are,
humanity, humility, and
hustle [LAUGH].
>> Those listening in know I love
things that come in three and
I love alliteration.
So walk us through the three H's.
Give us a little more detail.
>> Yeah, I mean, I think humanity
is definitely very easy to see.
That communication methods that
don't include humanity are a
failure from the very beginning.
It's just important to,
no matter who or what you're trying
to communicate, that you take into
account the humanity of your
audience and of yourself.
And I think the more that we do
that, the better we are at
connecting across right?
Humility is a similar kind
of thing.
It's just to not assume that you
have all the answers, or
even that everyone else has all
the answers, right?
To really be able to be open to
change and to be open to being
taught, to learning over time, and
to be okay with not being perfect,
right?
I feel like another piece of
good communication advice that I
was given by Julian was to stop
preparing the things I'm
trying to say while I'm trying to
listen to other people.
And that's humility, is to put
yourself in a posture of learning,
and a posture of listening, and
I think that one's key.
And hustle is just,
try to get out there in time.
Don't sit on things.
Don't wait to communicate with
people.
Don't wait for
them to communicate with you.
Reach out and
get out there and do it.
It always gets better if
you do something, right?
>> Yeah, I really,
really like the humanity,
the humility, and the hustle.
To me, it's about, be empathetic.
That's all about humanity.
It's about being open.
And that's what humility is about.
And then it's about taking
initiative.
And I clearly see those as
incredibly important ingredients.
Thank you so much, Charlotte.
You've helped us understand
the importance of a manifesto and
finding our values and
thinking about communicating it.
And I wish you the best of luck on
your book, You Need a Manifesto.
>> [LAUGH] >> Thank you.
>> Thank you so much, I'm so
glad to have been here.
[MUSIC]
>> Thanks for joining us for
another episode of Think Fast, Talk
Smart, The Podcast from Stanford
Graduate School of Business.
This episode was produced by
Jenny Luna, Ryan Campos, and me,
Matt Abrahams.
Our music was provided by
Floyd Wonder.
For more information and episodes,
find us on YouTube, or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Thank you, and
please make sure to subscribe and
follow us on LinkedIn.
[MUSIC]