LEIGH SALES (PRESENTER): Given that you've lost a significant vote on the floor of the
House. Is the right thing for the government to have its majority tested by a confidence
vote?
PETER DUTTON (HOME AFFAIRS MINISTER): No, the independents have been clear about the
fact that they support the government on the question of confidence and Kerryn Phelps said
today that she would not support a no-confidence motion. What the vote was about today was
a demonstration of whether or not Bill Shorten is capable of leading this country on the
issue of border protection. Clearly, he has failed that very significant test and
I think most Australians now see fortunately before the election, unlike the case with
Mr Rudd, a Labor Party unravelling a successful border protection policy. That's a disaster
for our country.
SALES: I just want to again raise this point that the government has just lost a significant
bill on the floor of the house. One that you, yourselves, claim goes to a vitally important matter
of national security. Shouldn't that raise questions in the minds of Australians about
your ability to govern effectively?
DUTTON: No, Leigh. I think particularly on the issue of border protection we've demonstrated
over a long period of time, not only have we been able to clear up Labor's mess...
SALES: But you have to get your policies through the parliament when you're the government.
DUTTON: Of course, and we are able to deal with the cleaning up of Labor's mess.
We have got kids out of detention. We have 60 people, medical staff, up on Nauru for a population
of 400 people. The claims are false in relation to the medical attention that's required.
This is about Mr Shorten trying to appease the left of his party. Mr Shorten has chosen
for, you know, the choice between trying to get the politics settled in his own ranks,
he has chosen that option over the option of what is in our country's best interests
and I think he stands condemned for his actions tonight.
SALES: As Home A ffairs minister, will you abide by the amendments on medical evacuations
that passed today?
DUTTON: Of course, we will. The law will be abided by as it always is. We brought a significant
number of people here either for medical attention or people in a family unit to support the
person coming here for medical attention, but I am worried about the consequences of
the deal that's been struck between Mr Shorten and The Greens tonight...
SALES: Can I interrupt. I want to interrupt you because I want to pick up on something
which is about already bringing people out for medical attention. Isn't there inconsistency
that, it has been OK for you to do that, but it will, if Labor and the cross-benchers have
their way, it will be open slather on Australia's borders?
DUTTON: Under the arrangements that Mr Shorten and The Greens passed through the House of
Representatives tonight, we have people that can come to our country from Manus or Nauru.
People that have been charged with child sex offences. People charged, or allegations around
serious offences including murder.
SALES: And how many of those are on Nauru and Manus?
DUTTON: I would suggest to you that Australians don't want those people...
SALES: How many are on Nauru and Manus. People charged with serious offences like child sex
offences?
DUTTON: We will release that detail if it is appropriate.
SALES: I'm asking you as the minister tonight.
DUTTON: I'm going to your point about what is the difference between the government's approach
and the Leader of the Opposition's approach. The government's approach
is to make sure that the government determines who comes
to our country and who doesn't. The Labor Party has clearly abrogated that responsibility
and they are, at the moment, in reckless territory and I think Bill Shorten realises that, but
the option for him was to see the left go completely off the reservation and he chose
not to side with national security and I think it is a very dark day for the Labor Party.
SALES: Do you think that most Australians believe that a bill allowing for the evacuation of sick
refugees who've been held on Nauru and Manus Island for five years
will open the floodgates to boat arrivals on our shores?
DUTTON: Well, Leigh we saw it when Mr Rudd came into government in 2007, when he said
he wouldn't unravel the successful policies of John Howard. We saw 50,000 people arrive.
We saw 8,000 children go into detention and it has taken us 6 years to clean up Labor's mess.
SALES: But are you saying that's what will happen as a direct result of this bill?
DUTTON: I do believe we will see boats under what Mr Shorten has passed in the House
of Representatives tonight. I think there is no question that people smugglers
will be hearing very clearly that the policy in Australia has changed and I think we need
to be very cognisant of that. I've met tonight already...
SALES: Sorry to keep interrupting, but I want to pick up on the points that you're making.
But for your theory to be true, people smugglers would have to offer a product like this, "OK you
can get on a boat to Australia, but there is a very high chance that you might be turned
back, if you're not turned back, you might be sent to Nauru and Manus. You might be able
to get two doctors to sign off on a medical evacuation for yourself.
The minister might allow that to happen. If you get to Australia, you might be able to lodge a court
action and find yourself staying in Australia." That doesn't sound like a very attractive product?
DUTTON: Well, Leigh, people are drowning on the Mediterranean. There are 1200 people who
drowned trying to get to Australia last time. That's the risk...
SALES: You're saying as a result of this policy, it is making things more attractive for people
to come to Australia, and I'm trying to give the example that it still is a very unattractive product.
DUTTON: No it's not, it's not actually.
This puts Australia back on the map for people smugglers and Bill Shorten
has that on his shoulders. That's the reality of what we have seen in the house tonight.
We were cleaning up Labor's mess.
We've got four kids left on Nauru who've packed their bags ready to go to the United States.
No children, in fact nobody in detention on Nauru or Manus.
We've closed 19 detention centres and Mr Shorten,
along with the Greens tonight, has taken a decision that he will unravel that success.
He has announced also, I must say, if boats arrive, that those people are going to Manus.
What's the point in getting people, going to Nauru, what's the point of getting people
off Manus and Nauru if you're only to fill them with new arrivals the following week?
And I think Mr Shorten doesn't yet understand the full consequence of his decision tonight,
but I think the Australian public do.
SALES: The bill only applies to people who are currently on Nauru and Manus, how is it
going to make it attractive and fill the place?
DUTTON: At the last election Bill Shorten was saying there was no difference on operation
sovereign borders between the Labor Party and the Liberal Party...
SALES: No, that's not what I asked.
DUTTON: The point I'm making, is you couldn't believe what Bill Shorten says when it comes
to border protection. He says one thing before the election and he does the opposite after.
If Mr Shorten is elected in May I can promise you this policy will apply to people newly arrived on Nauru.
It will be a disaster for people drowning at sea. It will put kids back into detention and Mr Shorten will have to
explain that failing if he is elected Prime Minister to the Australian people.
SALES: Hasn't the government created this situation for itself by not dealing in a timely manner with the
1,000 people who are on Nauru and Manus?
DUTTON: No, that's false. We have got an arrangement with the United States where we now have about
500 people that have gone there...
SALES: My point was about the timeliness?
DUTTON: I would want people off Nauru and Manus tomorrow,
but I need to be realistic about the options available to them.
People that have come from Iran and found not to be refugees, for example.
The Iranians will not issue travel documents, so we need to settle people in third countries and not the Labor
Party, but our government that created the opportunity for people to go to the United
States, we've not ruled out people going to New Zealand in certain circumstances. So,
yes, we've dealt with a very difficult situation over a period of time, but we have done it
in a way that hasn't seen kids drown. I haven't put one child into detention on Nauru. I have
got every remaining child, as Scott Morrison started, out of detention in Australia and
I don't want to go back to those bad Labor days and I worry that Mr Shorten has fired
the starting gun again for people smugglers.
SALES: Minister, you have not been on the program since the change of Prime Minister
last year. I want to ask you about a couple of matters. Malcolm Turnbull was asked why
he wasn't the Prime Minister anymore and he replied it is a question he can't answer and
that people should ask you among others. So why isn't he?
DUTTON: I answered the questions over the Christmas and New Year period. I don't intend
to go back and revisit...
SALES: I have not had a chance to ask you about them and I'm sure our viewers would
be interested to hear your response, whether you've answered it before or not.
DUTTON: I dealt with these issues at Christmas time...
SALES: It is a pretty simple question isn't it? Why isn't Malcolm Turnbull still Prime Minister?
DUTTON: I answered it at Christmas, I don't intend to re-prosecute it now.
SALES: Don't think viewers might be bothered that you can't answer that in a straightforward manner?
DUTTON: I can absolutely answer it. I did it at Christmas time, but I'm not going to rehash it. The priority for me
having just met tonight with the General in charge of Operation Sovereign Borders
with our officials otherwise, is to deal with the very difficult circumstance that Bill Shorten created.
SALES: And we've gone through. We've gone through that. Mr Turnbull said that "the people
who chose to act in madness, in a very self-destructive way to blow up the government
to bring my Prime Ministership to an end,
they need to really explain why they did it and none of them have".
DUTTON: I think those comments were made before I made my comments.
SALES: They were made on Q&A, when Mr Turnbull was on Q&A.
DUTTON: Well, I refer back to the comments I made at Christmas time and I provided a full explanation.
I don't want Bill Shorten to be Prime Minister of this country.
I want to make sure that we can stop boats and keep our economy
strong and that's the only thing I'm focused on.
SALES: But you were stopping boats and keeping the economy strong under Malcolm Turnbull?
DUTTON: I made comments at Christmas that provided a full explanation. I'm very satisfied with the job ...
SALES: One sentence. One sentence. Why did you change leaders?
DUTTON: I'm satisfied with the job that Scott Morrison is doing and I believe that we can
defeat Bill Shorten at the next election. I hope for the sake of the economy. I hope
for the sake of small business, retirees, people that will lose significantly under
a Labor government. Not to mention the issue of border security, I hope, that we can defeat
Bill Shorten for all of those reasons. I believe that we can.
SALES: One quick question, if you retain your seat at the election, are you still carrying
a leadership baton in your backpack?
DUTTON: I came out of the party room in August of last year and without hesitation, pledged
my support to Scott Morrison and...
SALES: Talking about after the election?
DUTTON: After the election, I'm committed to making sure that Bill Shorten doesn't become
Prime Minister of this country. That's been my interest all along because I put the Liberal
Party first because I believe we are the better party to govern for this country. We've demonstrated
it in relation to the management of economy and management of our borders and national
security and I believe that Scott Morrison is demonstrating to the Australian people,
including in my electorate, that he is the superior leader to face the challenges, many
of which Bill Shorten has reopened again today and if we concentrate on that, I believe that
we can win the election.
SALES: Peter Dutton, thank you for joining us this evening.
DUTTON: Thanks, Leigh.