So the sign that said Jesus was a Muslim, yes,
for me, that struck me as as provocative because
when Jesus was alive, Islam didn't exist yet, right?
It came about in the seventh century AD with Muhammad ﷺ
So what do you understand about the term Muslim?
and obviously, these guys would have explained it,
For me, a Muslim is someone who tries to live their life by the teachings of Muhammad ﷺ.
OK, so Muslim linguistically means
a person who submits their will to the will of the creator.
Hmm...
And that's where it gets interesting because so a Christian might also say
that I submit my will to the will of the creator.
So could you say that a Christian is a Muslim as well?
Yeah, so... can you be both?
So, now this is the question.
So, for example, the disciples of Jesus Christ or
the followers of Moses, peace upon him who followed Moses in his lifetime, etc.
They were Muslims. Why?
Because they were living the life.
According to the revelation,
which is given to their Prophet who was submitting his will to the will of the Father
Oh, will of the creator, Christians call Him the father etc...
So a person who submits his will to the will of God is called a Muslim.
So Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Noah,
all of these Messengers and Prophets were Muslims.
By that definition.
OK, so linguistically, it means.. so what some may think is that a Muslim
in the person of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him or a Muslim is a person
who is maybe from the Arabian Peninsula, for example.
Some may assume that, yeah, yeah
but this is incorrect, a Muslim is the one
who submits their will to the will of the creator.
Hmm... So that's what Jesus Christ.
He is a Muslim, according to us, and we believe in him.
We believe in his miraculous birth.
We believe in the miracles he carried out by the permission of God.
Okay.
All of these things, all the miracles he did were with who's permission?
So, yeah, and you would put all the Abrahamic prophets and that tradition.
Absolutely. But the question is...
Exactly. The question is where are you
deriving your knowledge on who these people were and what they were revealed?
What is your source material?
So, Jesus Christ, I mean, we believe in him as a person
who came with a message from God to guide us on how to live our lives.
OK?
When God creates us, do you think he just creates us and left
us aimlessly without any purpose? No.
And do you think he
left us without guidance so we can't achieve that purpose, which you believe we have?
No, I think he did. He gave us guidance,
and the Messengers and Prophets are the carriers of this guidance from God.
OK, so Jesus Christ is a Messenger from God.
This is how we believe, Right, Right.
Would you say that like a very devout Christian today who submits
himself to God like, I don't know, Pope Francis or something.
You wouldn't say that he was a Muslim.
Now, for example, now does he view Jesus Christ as a part of God?
Aaa Yes.
So this is where we say, OK, I have to.
I have to differ with you on this point
because I believe God is one and he's indivisible.
OK. He has no parts or faction.
Do you think that Jesus himself believed that?
Jesus, when he worshiped, who did he worship?
if Jesus was God himself?
Yeah.
Can God have another God?
In the Bible
Jesus says things like he addresses God as father.
He says, Father, why has tho forsaken me? So he?
Jesus. It sounds from the scriptures like Jesus
thought that he was the son of God and that he was a part of God.
Or at least that's an interpretation.
So when he's his father, why have you forsaken me now?
If he was God himself, is he calling upon himself?
Number one, if it was God himself, is he calling upon himself?
If he was a son of God and there are many other sons in the Bible?
Do we take them as literal sons?
No, we take them as metaphorical sons.
David is known as the as the son of God in the Bible.
He's known as his firstborn, but we don't see his actual son of God.
Because why?
Because he was always a mentor.
Would you say that's the main difference between Islam and Christianity?
Is that the tripartite division versus in Islam it's the oneness?
Islam is the only purely monotheistic religion on the planet!
So when it comes to, in terms of when we
use our intellect and our reasoning is up until a point.
And that point is when we establish
that this revelation I'm holding my hands is from the creator.
After that point, wherever the creator tells us about
the unseen we submit to without question, why?
Because once we establish that this is
God himself speaking, OK, then if God says there is a heaven
and hell, there are angels and jinn and all of these things which exist demons, etc.
Then we accept them wholeheartedly and without question,
because until that point, we can say, OK, I can critique the Qur'an and say, well,
Does this deserve to be the word of God? Does it have any mistakes inside it?
Does it have any contradictions inside? Has it been preserved?
Now we find these qualities with the Qur'an and with the Bible,
because you do obviously do comparative religion. Have you looked into the Bible?
Have I read the Bible?
Most of it.
Now we find, unfortunately,
these criteria for being the word of God are not met in the Bible.
There are contradictions within the Bible.
There are mistakes within the Bible.
And these point to the author's authorship
of the Bible being human beings rather than God himself, because
human beings can make mistakes.
The Old Testament was written by God to write like Genesis was written by God.
Yeah.. so.. no,
So err, it came down through Moses.
the Ten Commandments, it's the preservation of these,
These manuscripts or this text, rather, it was written by God.
Would you agree that it should be free from error?
Yes, because God himself is all-knowing he's perfect.
Yes. And if you were to see errors within this,
would you then question this being the word of God?
Yes.
And that's what we see the Old Testament and the New Testament.
It's I mean, there's over a hundred numerical
I mean, it's not even like subject to interpretation.
It's literally numerical clear cut, black and white mistakes within it.
Yeah, have you seen or have you heard of these before?
Yes, I'm familiar with most of them.
So, so and for you, the Koran has none of this.
Absolutely none.
If there was to be one, especially
similar to like what we find in the Bible, then of course, a Muslim would reject
the Koran completely and the Koran itself, and the preservation is different as well.
The Bible, if we were to look at the manuscripts,
number one, earliest manuscripts at best hundred years after Jesus Christ.
at most three hundred years for some of the other ones. The Koran was
written in Arabic was during the lifetime of the Prophet Mohammed.
Peace upon him.
The oldest, one of the oldest manuscripts in the Qur'an is in Birmingham,
which has been carbon dated
to the lifetime or close to the life of the Prophet Muhammad.
Peace be upon him. And it's in Birmingham.
They found it in 2015.
Well, as late as that.
So not just that when they looked at the manuscript, the Arabic from,
over a thousand years ago and today is identical.
Ok, wow. So these all these evidences,
because you have to be evidence-based like we do with every other aspect of our lives
Yeah. Conveniently, when it comes to religion,
we tend to disengage our minds and say, Well, you know,
Islam says, no use those faculties that you have and reason to find the truth.
And if something makes sense to you be sincere to yourself and believe it.
Well, so we dictate anything.
Rather, we say question and learn and reflect well.
Well yes, I'll have a look at this.
Would you like a Koran because we've spoken so much about it?
Sure. Yeah, of course.
I think I have an old copy at my house
This is not Shakespearean English
It's normal English.
It's one of the most accurate translations
of the Koran in normal English terms, essentially.
So it takes away with you.
You have a little index at the back here.
We can search for certain words
or certain terms and where they appear inside the Qur'an
So look, we are not enemies of Christians or anything like that.
I know,
Rather, we accept Jesus Christ.
All we say is do not give him a status,
which he himself never gave himself, like, I am God.
He never said, like, unequivocally, I am God.
And but in turn, worship me.
He never said they always worship the father.
He always called upon the father.
You know, if he was God, why would he...
Why would he say, You know, my God, in your God?
Yeah, why would he have his own God if he was God himself?
So there's these logical fallacies,
which come into that whole concept of the Trinity,
which till this day, I assure you, we speak to a lot of Christians.
Yeah, till this day, and even Christian,
you know, like yourself can never square that circle.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's true.
I mean, it's one of the mysteries
and a mystery is one point, but illogical is probably more accurate.
**LAUGHTER**
OK, a mystery is a convenient way to get out of it.
OK (Laughter)
It's completely logical. OK.
So, you know, for us...
We work with like, we've been given these minds for a reason.
Yeah. Yeah.
To use. Yeah, I know.
It's very true, very true I agree.
But yeah, it was lovely to meet you.
If I've said anything which is cause any offence, please forgive me
No, no, no. It was not my intention.
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