[Music]
hello and welcome to travel genius hi
Marco and I'm Nikki Eckstein we're the
travel geniuses this week we're talking
about competitive travelers those are
the folks who turned globe-trotting into
a school plus we'll be joined by
Michelin star chef and TV staple eric
repair all that and more on this week's
travel Jamie
[Music]
so this week we're gonna talk about a
little-known but totally intriguing
travel subculture competitive traveling
okay I was gonna say an is an honour of
our friend and guest from season one who
please listen to her episode if you
haven't yet Jessica no Bongo aka that
catch me if you can who just became the
first black woman of African descent to
visit every country on earth that's a
hundred and ninety five places total so
let's break this down tell everyone
where did this come from the idea of
competitive traveling and what what is
the gist of it mark this is an entire
people for whom traveling is an
obsession and not just in the way that
it is for you and I I mean they're
logging every country trying to visit as
many places as quickly as possible in a
race to get them all you would think
that this is a relatively new concept
considering how air routes have made the
world so much smaller and more connected
in recent decades but actually this goes
back to the 50s really in 1954 this idea
of wanderlust a desire associated with
nomads hobos it actually became a
competitive sport is this Olympic or
just competitive but I wouldn't be
surprised if the IOC started looking at
it basically a clique of frequent fliers
banded together to start something
called the travelers Century Club and in
order to join members needed to have a
hundred country stamps in their
passports
I'm already nerding out because don't
you check the stamps in your passport
I'd love the stamps in my passport I
have never been the person who counts
how many countries I visited to you I've
used those apps in that sort of slightly
smug way of logging the countries I've
been to but I couldn't tell you offhand
how many it is well either way it's
incredible to me to think that this is
something that's been going on since the
50s
so by 1960 there were actually 43
individuals who submitted qualifications
proving that they had this hundred
country checklist ready to go so they
were sent century truck century
travelers and they were the first ones
and basically since then people have
followed in their footsteps trying to
visit every country in the world the
traveller Century Club is still a thing
with 2000 plus members and 20 regional
chapters but the
they are not all not everyone and that
has been to every country in the world
right correct and it's funny because
there's some controversy as to what that
even means I mean there are factions
that Duke it out over what qualifies as
ISM fish as an official country the
United Nations says it's 193 countries
Traveler Century Club says there's 321
countries and territories it's a huge
discrepancy where did that extra a
hundred and thirty plus countries come
from and then there's an even bigger
number there's a site called
most-traveled people.com that lists 873
places to check off your list it's like
the book a thousand places to see before
you die
it does sound I know that there are
political reasons that the exact number
of countries in the world isn't isn't
locked that whether you consider Taiwan
an independent country or not is as much
about politics as geography but I'm
sorry I'm not going from 193 to 873 I'm
totally with you and in some ways I
think those numbers are inflated to kind
of give credence to this sport right
it's like an obsession that people can
add more and more to their lists to
prove that they have done more and more
they've done it better exactly someone
else and I'm thinking that is quite a
gendered reaction I'm sure when you hear
about this you're thinking a lot of
these are guys well I will tell you know
they're not Jessica who we've already
mentioned and Lexie have you come across
Lexie Alford I've heard her name I don't
know her personally she I profile tell
you could you can look up the print
profile of her the digital profile of
her she is the youngest person she's the
Guinness world record holder youngest
person to travel to every country in the
world and how old was she mark when she
set that record she was 21 that's wild
now to give Lexi had you her family does
run a travel agency so she grew up in
the travel business she had a bit of a
jump on that by the time she was 18 she
did 72 countries but that's still more
than a hundred countries in three years
I mean that's more than most people see
in their entire lifetimes I hope that
people like this understand the extreme
privilege that's associated with the
right to travel this way what are the
challenges around this Nikki water like
in terms the places people have to reach
is it the
in inconvenience because every country
in the world isn't one flight away well
there's so many ways to splice this
right there's the people who say oh it's
not enough to step your toe in a country
that doesn't count but then there's also
the countries that are really hard to
step your toe in in the first place so
let's talk really quickly the IOT an
acronym of a destination most people
know it as the abbreviation Martin tell
us what it stands for it stands for
British Indian Ocean Territory but its
traditional name is the che cose
archipelago that might be a bit more
familiar to people the sugar she owns
were famously forcibly settled in
Britain when Britain requisitioned the
islands and there is a court case
underway we're not gonna get into that
we're just gonna say really hard to get
see really hard to get to you because
you need a permit from Britain just to
step foot on this island and it requires
getting like on a navy ship it's a whole
many more than nine yards and quite
honestly not much to do one see that
there as you might expect based off of
that history it's gonna say that is the
thing this is the most extreme version
of that slight bucket list tallying
sense we have when we travel and I think
it's okay to want to tally your
experiences as long as you're actually
having an experience this toast Epping
idea the people who are just thinking
well I'll go across the border from
Venezuela and Colombia and then I've got
to I've gotten both out that's not that
that doesn't count I would agree with
you on that I don't see what the point
is it's not travelling if you're not
actually seeing the place or learning
about its culture I think it's a
different thing entirely I think if
there's anything that I dislike about
competitive travel it's the idea that
the competition aspect pits people
against each other absolutely and I
think if you look online you will find
that in this subculture there are sort
of internee sign fights about hoots done
war and who did it first and it is a
little bit it does remind me a bit of
like the People's Republic of Judea and
the people's liberal Republic of Judea
in life of Brian if anyone has seen that
monty python' ridiculous we are the
right people but again I think taking
inspiration from the I the the sense
that the world is enormous and you want
to see everywhere that I wouldn't fault
agreed well on that note mark let's jump
to our guest this episode who
seen a lot a lot more world than most
people in his particular industry we're
talking about the one and only eric
repair the chef of New York's LeBron
attend a restaurant that has all three
Michelin stars and has had them every
year since 2005 which is huge in and of
itself but he's also won best chef in
the USA from the James Beard Foundation
and you will know him from TV whether
he's hosting his own shows
he's a staple on Top Chef or teaming up
with his late friend Anthony Bourdain
all right Mike let's bring him in Eric
thank you so much for joining us and
welcome to travel genius thank you for
having me thank you please now chef
repair before we start we didn't want to
we want to warn you there is a
procedural rule and you're going to be
listening out for this sound Nikki that
is the genius point sound it is our
hotel Bell and Nikki is the adjudicator
I won't tell you where I pilfered it
from
every time you make a particularly
amazing point Nikki will award you a
genius point that way oh my goodness yes
so no pressure yes you're right if I
don't hear anything
oh you will like crickets instead it's
never happened okay well let's dive in I
know that there's there's something that
you always pack with you on your travels
and people might be surprised it's not
salt it's not spices but it's it's an
another little good luck charm that you
like to take with you all the time with
me in my pockets I have a Buddha yeah
I'll show it to you the Buddha Wow so
just to describe people who haven't seen
it is a clear slightly warm because it
has garnish you lucky I have a Phoenix
of all of chef repairs little keepsakes
but tell us how and why you started
doing that I started to carry them in my
pockets because sometimes it's a good
reminder for me about my spirituality so
I'm Buddhist so the Buddha basically
reminds me to
be kind to people not to harm people and
many other things the ganache is a
protection because he's a protector he
removes obstacles or can place obstacles
to protect you
according to the Hindu mythology and the
Phoenix basically is born from from his
own hushes with live it's a rebirth so
it's basically reinventing myself every
day so those things in my pocket when I
put my hands in it is a reminder that's
really lovely has that seen you through
any terrible airport nightmares or
travel snafus that may be your lucky
charms I really like rub it in my end
and play with them to be patient and to
be kind to the TSA agent and you've
never left them behind the no security
checkpoint no but sometimes I give it to
friends like you loan them out no I give
it like that you just yes it's a wit of
being known a touch so sometimes people
ask me like can you find me a Buddha I'm
like yeah take this one where do you get
them in stores when I travel everywhere
collection not really I have I mean if I
give you this one I have to find another
one and this one same thing I have a
collection at home of Big Buddha zijn
and so on but the tiny ones like that I
don't
so tell us in terms of as a Buddhist
where have you been tell us about a
destination that is a beautiful in a in
a practicing Buddhist that that you
could go yes people may not realize
Bhutan Bhutan is absolutely amazing as a
country it's not very easy to to get to
from New York you have to go sometimes
through Chicago and then New Delhi and
New Delhi Bhutan and you have to spend a
night in India because it's not flight
when you land and so on and then the
visa is it's it's a bit difficult to get
and a bit expensive I've heard you have
to pay for your visa because they don't
want too many tourists right to protect
the
culture of the country in the country
it's a Buddhist country and it's a lot
of hiking to do there and a lot of
monasteries to visit so if you Buddhists
is very interesting if you're looking to
party it's not the happiest country on
earth don't they ever everybody seems to
be extremely happy and I don't know it's
a majestic country and I had blast I was
by myself I left the family in New York
I think did you learn any secrets of
happiness from your time abroad in
Bhutan that we should kind of keep in
our own back pockets yeah I mean
happiness it's its inner peace it's
being at peace with yourself and with
others as any Buddhist I suppose it's a
very Buddhist answer the but Jeff rappel
I also to ask you another destination
that I'm intrigued by which you know
very well because you spend some of your
childhood there is Endora yes so tell
everyone about and where is Endora and
why is it so interesting so under rising
between France and Spain between
Barcelona and Toulouse to be precise in
the Pyrenees and it's a tiny tiny
country it's maybe like 30 miles by 30
miles you have six ski resorts and small
villages everywhere and 200 legs it's oh
it's the Pyrenees right I never thought
of it a lot of Spaniards come French
people come also to ski and a lot of
British people come there how does it
compare to other ski spots in Europe I
mean there's plenty of them Pyrenees do
not compare really with the Alps if you
look at the big reserve however it's a
lot of Sun it's warm the way there is
very is very nice usually of course you
have a lot of snow
the big difference will be probably the
quality of the snow is different on the
Alps because of the altitude is
different so the stores noise maybe not
as light okay it's like
barring Utah and Colorado I've also
heard that it's a duty-free Haven it's a
great place to go shopping yes
interesting to see the French people on
the weekend coming to buy butter cheese
cigarettes and a lot of alcohol because
alcohol is not taxed wait I love this
idea that the French don't buy their
butter in France I just had to jump into
the velvet the Dutch the red cheese like
it's it's made it's like a bowl and it's
red wax on the outside oh yeah they buy
thousands of them but it's a very good
from what I've always heard about Endora
the luxury brands also are much cheaper
there because it is it is essentially
like an airport store but a country it's
a country it's basically one big city I
mean compared to the rest of the
villages with one large Avenue on each
side of the Avenue you have stores and
people shop everywhere that's amazing
you have all the brands that exist in
the world huh so I just read an
interesting blog post I don't know some
fashion blog that I happened upon as I
was traveling the internet and it made a
point that if you're in the market for a
luxury handbag the price of your plane
ticket slash your entire weekend trip
could be offset just by not paying taxes
on the handbag if you buy you insane if
you buy your beer King essentially
borrowing money from a luxury splurge
to use on a vacation so you're basically
saving money to spend on travel also
tell us in terms of we obviously want to
pick your brains about food what point
us to a culture that you've been to that
was an unexpected find in terms of
delicious food you know we know French
food is amazing we know Italian food is
amazing where have you been inspired by
or discovered has a really incredible
cuisine Vietnam mmm yeah what I
love about Vietnam I mean the food is a
lot of foodies know about it but a lot
of tourists don't know of how fantastic
Vietnamese food is it's based on fresh
food so the products are ultra fresh
what you find in the streets has been
either way caught or harvest or killed
that day and at night it's it's over and
they cook immediately the food is they
use a lot of herbs a lot of lemongrass
and ginger and it's very fragrant and
when you go to Vietnam and you walk the
streets of the markets
the smell is unbelievable I mean the
food they cook on the front of you they
start from scratch I mean you know they
were full and they start from scratch
and they 2 minutes later they give it to
you that's amazing so they don't have
like a stock pot boiling in the back
that they're borrowing from or whatever
don't think and I think a lot of people
don't realize that there's a lot of
French influence in Vietnam which makes
it very interesting for food as well yes
it's a good mixture of French culture
and Asian culture and Vietnamese
especially because we are in Vietnam
obviously the south of Vietnam is very
interesting you find some AG amazing
villages it's a village called houyan
that is unesco protected it's one of the
most beautiful village I have fun in my
life
[Music]
[Applause]
[Music]
so when you're in a destination like
Haiyan or any you know more remote
remote village I'm in a part of the
world where maybe you don't speak the
language what are the signs that you
look for when you're looking for good
food how do you know that a place is
gonna be worth the calories I go
straight to the market and at the market
I walk a little bit and then I look
where the locals are when I see like
someone cooking or someone selling some
something that is ready to be eat it and
it's a line of locals I know it's a good
spot at the market specific so you would
always go to the fresh the fresh food
source yes and that would be the first
meal you'd try and have some would you
use that would you try and find out from
those people where else you should eat
or what would you do I don't like people
to tell me where to go
because I like to wander I like to take
my time I like to make mistakes I like
to enjoy it for me it's like freedom
soon as I define as soon as I ask
someone where I'm supposed to go I lose
my freedom I'm supposed to go that that
way and so I never ask I just like
improvise and I might but I do that all
day long and I think that's a wonderful
your point of us I think that's a very
good reminder that we all feel the
burden of asking and actually following
our whims and also following our own
tastes we have our we have instincts for
what we like yes of course even in a new
place absolutely yes you mentioned that
you like to make mistakes talk to us
about a time that you got cut early
Lost's or a mistake that you made that
actually turned into a wonderful
discovery yes it was a market in Asia
and I entered the market and then
someone gave me a don't remember the
name is a kind of a nut and you chew on
it and it makes your gums and teeth read
that's all yes
and they they were like pointing at it
aha and they were like you should take
it so I started to true on it and
suddenly I was so dizzy
and it has like genic effect doesn't it
maybe not hallucinogenic basically being
like super stone something like that and
that was a mistake it was definitely a
mistake well I had to sit down and and
you know where I sat down it was
horrible i sat down on the front of a
store that was roasting dogs I was like
basically almost elucidating yeah I mean
I was paralyzed on the front of that
stand and I was like no way they're not
cooking dogs and it was yes oh my god I
saw a lot of battle net in Myanmar and
you see people you'll have like brownish
teeth because they chew it so much and
it just colors their teeth no and you
know at one point the teeth fall as well
if your gums
everyone's me I have to bleach my teeth
can you think of it you're a big scotch
whisky connoisseur yes I'm gonna say no
let's call it connoisseur tell us tell
us about your experiences in Scotland
and lots of people's that's a bucket
list thing to go to some of the
distilleries there which one stand out
what should people know before they go
well you don't want to go to the big one
the big names you want you you want to
go to the small guys and why is that
because it's artisanal still it's the
way they make scotch
it's can be like very industrial in a
sense or it can be ultra artisanal and
and you find hundreds of them and so you
have to go there if you like a scotch
that you drink here or that you some
friends recommend you obviously try to
find it on a map and try to have access
to it and this is the the best way to
first of all have a good testing of
something is very special because the
process and to learn about the process
what distiller isn't Oh keep those
little distilleries gonna tell us if you
got any in your little black box because
your palate I would trust
I like Obon which i think is pretty
small
and I like Obon because it's very pity
smokey but at the same time he has a
little bit of saltiness because of the
wind
that brings the the seawater so Obon is
a good one to visit I'm gonna give you a
ding I feel like this is something that
people really want to do and whenever I
hear of people going to Scotland to have
this type of pilgrimage shall we say you
do they tend to just go to the big big
names so this is I actually do think
that as much as it sounds logical when
we think about food to go to the
artisanal purveyor this is an area where
people don't do that as much as maybe
they should and the smaller distilleries
they may not have visitor centers but
there if you warned them that you're
coming
they'll probably very amenable they are
very welcoming dropping bomb yes so as
somebody who has come through multiple
generations of food and travel loving
stock I'm curious what some of your
early travel memories are like what were
some of the super special trips that
maybe turned you into the food and
travel obsessive that you are today so I
have been always obsessed with food and
love food so therefore my grandparents
and my aunts and and my mother everybody
was cooking for me and my biggest gift
that you could give me was to take me to
a fancy restaurant and if I will have
good grades also that I will I will go
to a nice restaurant I never had good
grades so I had to wait for my birthday
many reasons why I became a chef I
became a chef because I was always
reading a cookbook at cookbooks I was
not studying so what is the best what is
the best cook book book store in the
world yeah for cookbooks
because I'm sure we got lots of
listeners who would follow your lead
well you have one on Lexington Avenue
you know 90s in New York the crowd
specialized kitchen aft and letters
books the entire store is filled with
rare and popular cookbooks and all the
new ones they have connections that
nobody has and if a book comes out in
Australia you have it here a week
earlier and it's unbelievable blown away
I had no idea I
obviously you were very close to Layton
Anthony Bourdain and and he is such an
icon of travel for our era
tell us about traveling with him and
what you learned about travel from him
any advice I know he had his bulletproof
suitcase but other than what else did
you learn so we traveled quite a bit
together for for the short that he had
on CNN before CNN and also we had a show
called good and evil
and we traveled the u.s. with that show
it was in theaters we we travel quite a
bit long trips and short ribs and
Anthony and I had a very strong
friendship for more than 20 something
years and it was interesting because we
could spend days together in the jungle
in Peru and basically exchange few world
and be extremely comfortable and happy
together that's the relationship we had
and sometimes of course we will speak
for hours we we had I mean I learn from
him a lot about connecting with people
because he was he was genius at finding
the right character that will teach her
something or tell a story it was as you
know extremely couriers and and
adventurers and courageous because I
mean I remember I was not with him but I
remember in filming with the Messiah in
in Kenya and basically like killing a
goat and drinking the blood milk mixed
with the milk and to be part of the
Maasai culture and I was like wow you
know if you can do that I can do that
yes but he was it was a mentor for me in
terms of traveling and learning how to
express myself on television or speaking
with people and so on he taught me a lot
of he taught me patience also and how to
respect
my fence I mean he was the respect that
he had for his fans was unbelievable
when we did good and evil it was sold
out in an entire country they were a
theatre of 3000 people 5,000 people at
the end we were supposed to do book
signings so we will end up the show at
11 o'clock at night and then you will
see thousand people on line and I was
like Tony I'm going to do Hotel like
resigning books until the last person
and we will be there until 1:00 1:30
only morning signing books signing
tickets signing anything taking pictures
and and so on I rang the bell that
wasn't a mistake I thought there was
something really beautiful that you said
which is that you and Tony could be in
each other's company for long stretches
of time and utter only a few words and I
think the contemplation of travel and
traveling with someone that you can
afford to be silent with is a beautiful
thing that allows you to appreciate the
meditative qualities of travel someone
once told me that if you're thinking of
taking an extended trip with a friend
you get along with very well you should
go out for dinner before you go on the
trip and see if you can spend the
evening comfortably not talking because
that is a you can't do that with
everybody no matter how close you are
and a trip is about really being in the
moment and relaxing and really relaxing
probably involves quite a lot of not
just with relaxing though I agree with
you but relaxing requires silence and so
does the experience that you're
describing about the Maasai being able
to respectfully engage with a culture
that you don't understand requires not
talking about it in the moment but
processing it and witnessing it and
being respectful of it and then maybe
later maybe in a few days decompressing
and sharing it verbally sure you know I
mean yeah he ended up doing things that
were very odd sometimes once he actually
got sick from from the food that someone
offered to him you will never refuse
food like someone will come and very
often when he was traveling to
some countries people were very humble
sometimes they did another meal every
day and but it will be the guest of
honor and they would give him some food
and he will always accept it and I was
like dude oh man and and I remember
story that actually I was making fun of
him he ended up it was in South Africa
with the Bushmen and they went to her
and it's kind of a wild boar I don't
remember how you call it
[Music]
it's a piglet but anyway they went with
the the bond the bow and arrow and and
they killed it and they brought it they
walk for two days in the desert they
came back to the village they did a big
ceremony for Anthony and they basically
tried to cook it but they didn't have
enough wood or something like that and
hug that's it yeah so then they gave him
so it's the big ceremony and Ana Tony is
like facing them and they give him the
best pig piece of the the Warhawk which
is the anus of the world hog and he ate
it knowing that it would it was not even
cook and it was going to get sick he got
really really sick but I was making
always fun of him and said you know what
Tony you thought you were Noble and you
where they were with you know it's the
best piece of animal is no culture the
world that it's an anus I would love to
know I would I would love to know if
which which of the listeners if any of
the listeners can tell us can settle was
he being pranked by those Bushmen dude
all right I know we must wrap but I but
I want to know where are you going next
chef repair where's your next trip I
mean next week I'm going to Cayman
Island yes to organize for the cookout
Cayman cookout and then I'm going to
Paris in four weeks if people want to
follow your adventures on social media
where can they find you what are your
Twitter Instagram were ever at Eric
repair
on all the platforms Instagram Twitter
and Facebook IRB very good will and I do
it myself and thank you for saying that
because not everyone said we really will
be following your adventures thank you
very much
[Music]
okay Nikki tally us up how did chef
repair school so chef got six points and
what points they were one go to Andorra
not France to buy your butter and cheese
what's and luxury goods and luxury goods
to borrow from your splurge to pay for
your vacation mmm
three enjoy the freedom of following
your whims don't necessarily feel like
you have to follow everyone's advice or
anyone's advice unless it's awesome I
mean maybe hope for Scotch lovers go
small-batch just skip the big names
you'll have a much better time five
kitchen Arts and Letters the cookbook
story that nobody knew about that's
hiding right in our backyards and six
silence is golden a lesson that we can
attribute to the late great Anthony
Bourdain and whose stories just
completely captivated us in the studio
today
thanks for listening to travel genius
I'm Nikki Eckstein and I'm Marco do you
have a favorite travel tip or hack or do
you have thoughts on what you heard
about today we want to hear them just
drop us a line at 6 4 6 3 2 4 3 4 9 0 if
you leave a voicemail
we might even play it on the show or you
can find us on Twitter and Instagram I'm
at Nikki Eckstein that's three KS and no
C's and I'm on Twitter at Mark J Elwood
and Instagram at Mark Elwood if you
haven't subscribed to travel genius
already
I would ask why not but of course you
can do so on Apple podcasts Spotify or
wherever you get your podcast and while
you're at it please take a moment to
rate and review the show on Apple
podcasts it helps more people find us
this show was produced by Topher for has
francesca leafy is Bloomberg's head of
podcasts thanks again for listening
[Music]
you