[Tom] One of the areas of theological discussion for
the last generation has been
the whole question of Theology and Gender.
Megan, you've been working on Theology and Gender on and off,
can you give us
a little brief introduction to what we
mean by Theology and Gender?
And maybe a second question is, why is it important?
[Megan] Sure, so I think it's important to,
one of the things in thinking through theology and gender is
to recognize that some of
these questions are fairly new questions.
That, so in a sense,
they are covered in people
like Aquinas and Augustine because they were,
they talked about sexual difference.
But I always like to emphasize that they,
because they're coming from such a different time
and a different framework that
they would have asked very different questions
about what it means to be male and female.
And so many of the questions that we have now in
the 21st century about gender are relatively new.
And so I think then it's very exciting actually for Theology
because we have a whole tradition from which to draw from.
Some of the resources are helpful.
But also we need the creation, I think,
of new theologies because the questions themselves are very new.
And so then it's a kind of creative process of trying to say,
How do we remained in some conversation with the tradition and,
and to a certain extent,
continuity with the tradition,
but also address these very new questions.
We have new scientific information about gender,
new philosophical information about gender.
And, and Theology is wonderful because Theology is, I think,
interested in every aspect of,
of human life and creaturely existence, including gender.
So Theology definitely has some resources,
I think, to bring to some of these questions.
[Tom] Could you give us an example of some of
the resources that theology
brings to the whole question of gender.
[Megan] Yes, definitely.
So I think one of
the things that theologians have consistently emphasised
throughout the tradition is the notion that to be human is to be
relational and to be kind of connected to the people around us.
And much of what it means to be gendered
as kind of relating to those around us.
And, and again, the question of desire is very central as well.
And theologians from the very beginning
have also been interested in desire.
And that's also sort of
centrally important to questions about gender also.
So I think, I think some of the things in the tradition,
again, with the caveat that they wouldn't have been
asking the same questions that we're asking about gender.
But still I think that some of some Christian reflections on
relationality and desire still have something to say
to us today about questions having to do with gender.
[Tom] I'm always intrigued by the fact that when Christians gather
and for as long as we have records they've been doing this.
They refer to one another using terms of brother and sister.
And it always strikes me as,
as a very interesting language to use
because it's inherently a language of equality.
The the idea that human beings are a fraternity,
the great phrase, of the French Revolution, fraternité.
Everyone should, everyone should be brother and sister.
And the idea that human beings are equal,
it seems, it strikes me that one of the insights of,
of a... that seems to be there in Christianity.
But also forgotten is this idea that
human beings are fundamentally related to one
another and also related in a way of
equality rather than in the way of hierarchy and, and levels.
Now, I know Christians,
Christians have become so obsessed with hierarchy
they even, they even refer to
their own administrative structures in terms
of almost higher levels of holiness and higher levels of being.
But it does strike me that in
this basic language of brother and sister,
there is something about Theology and Gender
that is actually quite subversive of power structures.
[Megan] I think that's right. And I think it's
a shame that are at various times in
the history of the church that gets forgotten because I
think in, in the Scriptures it,
you do have this notion that I think it's the Apostle Paul, who has
this great verse about there's
neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek -
[Tom] Slave nor free. [Megan] yes, yeah,
but Christ is in all and all are in Christ, this idea.
And so I think, I think that's very organic and
authentic to Christianity and it gets
corrupted at various times by
different philosophical systems I think
that people are interested in.
But the subversive elements,
I think it's important to note that there are
the subversive element all throughout the theological tradition.
And so even with someone like Augustine for his time,
in certain ways, he was sort of
progressive on some gender questions.
And so for example, he thought women
would remain women in Heaven,
which at the time, you know,
people thought to become perfected was to become
male and Augustine said
actually, women were created intentionally by God,
and so they're good and they will remain women in heaven.
And so this type of idea,
and then also Augustine thought
that sexual difference is only in the body and not in the mind.
But the mind is actually,
there's a sort of common human minds that we all have : sapientia
and scientia, wisdom.
And then this kind of temporal knowledge that
everyone has that regardless of sexual difference.
And so in that way were equal.
And so you do have,
even as far back as someone like Augustine,
these, these kinds of subversive ideas.
And of course there's a lot of other
problematic things that are also there.
But I think now these types of
things present resources for us that we can engage with in a helpful
[Tom] Megan. Thank you very much.