- So Jochen, we are seeing that there's obviously
a lot going on in the HR Tech space.
There are many different tech tools
and solutions on the market.
So HR is getting more and more aware
of the fact that they need to do
something with all this technology.
But they don't necessarily know
what to do with it or where to start.
What is your perspective on this?
- Well, what we're seeing currently,
I would like to make a comparison with candy stores.
There's a lot of candy coming on to HR Tech.
All different types and HR has been a bit
lagging behind, in a way,
and now there is this need to buy candy.
And you know what happens with kids in candy stores.
It they have this need to buy candy,
they end up with a sick tummy.
And I think HR is more or less reaching that point,
'cause there's so much on offer.
It's difficult to know what you really want,
what really is your taste and what can make a difference
or what can add value to you and to your company.
I think that's the tipping point where HR is at moment.
There is the offer but now you need to know
which offer is yours and which offer will you take home
to your company and not just start eating all of that candy.
- Yeah, I like the analogy with the candy.
So where would you say that companies or organizations
that are looking to start to get into,
to automate some processes and use technology for that?
Where would you say would be a good
start for companies in general?
I mean, every company is different, of course,
but where would you say it's good to start?
- Well, I think there's one thing that most companies
agree upon at this moment and that is that
we're entering a 'digital first' future
so you need a 'digital first' strategy.
And actually, that's your starting point.
If you're at the end of the road,
you want to incorporate new technology.
But before you end up with the technology
or start to look for technology,
you must realize that from that strategy,
you first need to look at structure within your company
and what will add value to that structure
and how you will enable the people
to leverage your technology
and only in the last phase will you need
to look at the technology, the candy again.
'Cause what you see is, if you bring in technology
and you haven't prepared people to use it,
then you will be disappointed in the technology
'cause it will never deliver on its promise
and you will get a lot of resistance within the company.
'Cause technology is a change for people
and you need to take that into account.
You need to help them realize that this change
is part of your 'digital first' strategy
which you need as a company in order to survive.
- Yes, so earlier today, we were listening
to Josh Bersin talking about learning
and everything that's going on
in the learning space, which is a lot.
What do you think we can expect
coming from the learning space?
- Well, if you're in learning and development,
and you haven't realized yet that you need to do more
than just classroom courses and webinars,
well, then, you're lagging behind.
If you look at the things Bersin has been saying
about learning over the last six to nine months,
it's not just about blended learning and micro learning,
you're entering a new space where
it will become important how you measure learning.
'Cause as I heard in one of the round table discussions
I followed today, management is always asking
about what's the return on investment.
And there's a lot of investment in learning
and not just on a level of it costs a lot
to get a coach in or to follow a course.
But also as the time investment needed
of your people but also
the mental investment of the people.
And if you read things like the re-skilling
that McKinsey talks about,
you'll realize that learning on a continuous
basis will only gain in importance.
And what I find strange is that
when you talk about learning companies,
continuous learning companies,
that's something Peter Senge
started talking about 25 years ago.
Yet the amount of learning companies,
true learning companies that you find across the globe,
are rather limited.
And again, if you link that to the 'digital first' strategy,
then you know that you will need
to become a learning company.
You see, that's when you see the overview
of Josh Bersin in tech land,
it's not just about LMSs,
it's also about bite-size learning,
it's about content providers
and you also see the first companies
that are measuring the learning experience
and measuring the return on investment.
I think that will be a big trend starting off in 2019.
How do you measure the return
on investment of your learning?
'Cause it will become crucial
for your 'digital first' strategy.
- Yes, all right, thank you very much.
- You're welcome.