I'm joined today by Jamie do wolf he's a poet comedian
writer producer-director and also the great-grandson of the founder of
Scientology
L ron Hubbard Jamie very very excited to talk to you
let's just start at the very beginning what's it like growing up
as the great-grandson %uh the founder of Scientology scientology
were you ever scientologist no exit 0
my and my grandfather was around hundred junior
and he was a scientologists was actually wanted the
and his right-hand man on for many years in the early days at the church
and eventually left the church and an interchange in his last name from Humber
to the wall
and then sorted had like a final third acted as light battling against his
father and trying to flush them out of hiding
on so growing on on my grandfather was still alive Scientology was actually
something that we didn't really talk about
because I was the oldest grandchild ans
all I understood as L ron was a writer and that to me was very inspirational
right as did because I wanted to be a writer and yet all these
amazing looks like a fine bookstores on
you know with all kinds in amazing tree had aliens and rocket ships on a min and
you know growing up is that as a crazy little kid who is always typing away
that was very inspiring to me and had a very vivid memory of knowing
who l ron was on sure
really as long as I can remember I got you know I had a 10 volume
missioner said they like dominated part of my bookshelf when I was
you know really yon and overtime next to aids or use it as inspiration
literally them with no internet or anything else on
the fact that he ended up creating a religion
on didn't quite come up until a lot later at the let's talk about that right
I mean we're EU
expressed very strong in critical views a Scientology you've talked about
pyramid scheme
you've talked about a very intelligent sorta evil
malicious Overman YouTube you had
you you're very strong views about this at what point did it go from
poets have greater who writes cool science fiction that I am inspired by 20
there's this whole other thing here
what bizarrely a word is growing up
and it was on its kept from all the kids in in a way because it did they really
wanted us to escape they didn't want
did you want to be RCA is Welsh
and sell for most of my aunts and uncles
they try to keep their children as far away from as possible they change their
own names they didn't wanna talk about a
and as the oldest and most inquisitive kid
about this subject current you know I started asking one more questions
and when I was really young on acrobats is an actually got a book on cults
her boyfriend from my reverent on
and shared she and in this book I'm flipping through a
and came to a picture out of it over to same
the same picture that I had seen on on one of my aunts
you know walls on for a brief period eventually have been taken down
and I was when I I was I'm more mom what is scientology thank
interface on really pale you know when asked her about it and she
was really worried she thought at first people worse off join me
and then its order the book and I started asking me questions she
she was definitely like it as Sunday when your little bit older
and act I kept asking questions in my family
and I still do there's there's some members in my family that wall
really talk about it at all on and they've been watching very carefully
on what has or hasn't happened to me simply by being public about a
on I'm pretty much the last member of my family they were gonna record about it
and you know that
and it first became a wave China understands
who I was just who I was in my family and grub red hair
you know a redhead and be on my brother were both the two
only real redheads and family in the oldest and we are both
totally little whack jobs growing up in incredibly manic incredibly verbal and
hyper
and I'm and then later on became sorted insane adolescence
on it became even more of a factor me trying to figure out like
alright well it's my great grandfather was a coal leader people say is crazy
will
what kinda crazy was it %um who was this guy
you know and really trying to discover cruelly actually was
as a human being passed all the method here propagated about himself
and an ass want to discuss further and further down the rabbit hole
and I'm still asking on I had had a lotta means
aren't you know in secret and Sun in public
on with ex-members people who knew him personally
trying to get a real sense so true this guy actually was too let's go to that I
mean what's the kinda
succinct summary if you had to say what is scientology what was
why was it created and and what is its validity as a
as a quote religion whatever that means to to any individual
what's the kinda you you've developed well I think that hour on
on I think that the jury is still out even in me in terms of what
actually was motivated him I do think that it was larger than money
on I I don't think it was to help mankind
and I definitely think it was it was more ever pursued power and
more that he had his car nevers ego that was disordered devouring this sorted
adulation and writing and self in this hero
dad she never was in Israel I who he was in real life
was I feel even more fascinating than when he trying to propagate the myth
that he created next committee created is basically he was like
the Leonardo da Vinci and the modern mind and dad was one of the greatest
adventures in Shankar's in the last century
you know that had been seduced entire new science sector to complete the
save humanity literally sure and you talk about dianetics
Dino's but before that he was a nuclear physicist the submarine commander
what are the first stated casualties of world war two went blind resurrected
himself
to side with the powers on his arm I was a dog fighter I
I mean yeah I studied it defeated shoved was a blood brother to indians world
travelers study to defeat a mistakes in the east
I mean it did list goes on and on and is is
in some way I mean a man is like utterly preposterous if you were just had
a simple on origin story would have been far more believable
by noon you kinda March you that our I never liked exhibit it it's just
absolutely amazing that dead he's really trying to make you believe that this all
happened in one life
and I think a lot of it is that she at a certain point really wanted to be that
person
and Scientology was a way for him to write himself into becoming that
character
on that he'd always you know written about in his books
I think that he was actually a storyteller and he was a natural born
hustler who showed a propensity for lies
and at a very early age on used profoundly prolific
an incredibly intelligent very cunning on
was definitely very aware that he could kinda right himself
and too many positions a power and did so from a very early age
I mean he's possessed with another gifted gab and had a certain sort a
magnetism
about and that was able to achieve a lot as well but I do think that
10 most fascinating aspects about and that shit is so like
period experimenting with black magic and get the Chazan right
and I know that sounds totally absurd to the regular lame but it is
is conclusive in terms own you know actual black sex magic with Alistair
Crowley support these are not conspiracy theories
stuff has been validated in fact L ron had to actually even
on acknowledge it to a point where he claimed he was a secret agent
sent in to break up this black magic sex ring
but so Jamie without getting I want to bring it back to one thing that you're
talking about
in the conversations you had with in your family
is there a consensus that he never actually believed the stuff about Z new
and the aliens in all love this scientology kinda teachings
there is there a consensus that this was clearly something concocted and that it
was not something he even believed
I think that said the kid sis is set from what I understand that my
grandfather held near the end
is that his father was incredibly clever and manipulated and now certainly the
roots
ugh Scientology's was at this is a method
up controlling people this is a method to and breaking people down it's it's an
incredibly efficient form
a brainwashing the way completely deconstructs
how people connect to reality action to take next to the community
and what I feel that near the end though is that
the power that he had had for so long
on and being lost in his own fantasy land for so long
that I feel this stuff like Z New Years is safe for their further down the
rabbit hole
writing was is that she had to keep coming up with 17
on that was he had to keep dangling the carrot further and further
because he's promising you superhuman god-like abilities
well unless you are as rich as Tom Cruise and you can maybe commit yourself
to that because you
that far distance for maybe the regular room for your average person
that these abilities don't Konch and so there's a point we have to constantly be
dangling is two wire did coming in and what happens is so forth
character was to a Scientologist dizziness thing is so significant
because is the first time
they find out that you're not you're not one
got black soul be in the you've been talking to you and listening debt that's
been happening all these bodies
that actually you're a vessel has been possessed by
dead alien which parasites
quite a story yeah right and so you have to spend thousands dollars to sit in a
room
alone holding electrified juice cans hypnotize yourself
and giving these alien parasitic souls therapy yes now a story I J me that
there's one other II we're just so over time and I have to get one more thing in
and I think people can look up a lot in that specific up procedural stuff
had it security wise have you been visited by members of the church because
I've speaking out just kinda quickly give us a summary
sure I certainly was a very first signed up for and about on a hunt me down and
they showed up to my moms house
on the clan symbol cover story claiming that their
you know art is putting on a show with me and she was able to sort a see
through their routers
and kicking off their I of reports while on a
since dances I i've been encouraged by many members
and the Cree community in people who since I came out with a got him and he
said you can find a new to
on to snap judgment and that performance
that true that a lot of people encourage me to stay
just said to continue this is stay in the spotlight and talk about a
on and net this second I would go back in the shadows I'm a mess up more of a
target
E and I think also that the church is taking so many shots now and the press
is much like your show has grown balls
and her ovaries so to speak in our attacking
on without fear they're exposing for what it is
and allotted to the house a car too strongly in and I think that that's
giving a lot of safety in strength
to a lot of people they're coming out a lot at these high-profile celebrities
Italy V
right on is less tear there's last year because the internet
and you know that the fact that all this information is out there that you can
Google Z new and have a damn good laugh well twenty years ago that was far from
funny that was a deadly secret that was
you know in a briefcase handcrafted members rest
that you had to spend decades attempting to learn this secret
right now South Park you can download in the second and it's a joke
and by that being a joke is one of the most dangerous aspects the Scientologist
is I mean they sell secrets now the seekers are on the public
that it becomes very dangerous for them to you attend to control f load
information to attend to shut it all down as
there's too much news to many going on a 16 can stop every single hole
this certainly don't want to bring more attention at me alright jamie do of
pleasure having you want thank you so much
sure thanks a lot