- Things that people are more comfortable
talking about than money:
sex, war, trauma,
religion, politics—
it's literally anything.
- What makes money such a taboo topic?
- It's a combination of being judged by society,
not having a roadmap,
and then, certainly, our primitive brains
thinking that we need to protect ourselves
and stay silent to survive.
- Certain kinds of decisions that involve taboos
or sacred values—
there's evidence that actually
a different part of the brain is coming online.
- There are a lot of conversations about
making money,
but very few, or limited conversations that are
intimate about how to manage it,
or how to even think about a financial decision.
- It is quite literally something
that touches every aspect of our lives,
and if we don't learn, not just how to manage it,
but also how we feel about it,
it can have these ripple effects
on our lives in the future.
- Money taboos can have serious financial impacts.
The good news—
the part of our brain where taboos live is not in charge—
you are.
This is "Your Brain on Money."
This is Kathleen.
She knew at an early age
that she had an interest in finance.
- When I was a little girl,
probably five or six,
my favorite toy was a cash register.
And I just loved hitting the buttons
and hearing the 'kachings!' and I loved coins.
- Now, as a wealth psychology expert,
she's seen the effect money taboos
have had on her clients from every walk of life.
- So the money talk taboo is there, and it's strong.
It has to do with the fact
that we have grown up in a society
that historically has not been
open and honest about money.
It's because families don't know how to
talk about money,
and don't have a roadmap for teaching us
about saving, spending, investing—
and that silence is kind of
passed down through generation.
- So how does the brain perpetuate
the taboo around money?
Our two neuroscientists, Dr. Joseph Kable
and Dr. Moran Cerf, are going to show us
what's happening inside our head.
- Our ancestors, back in the days,
when they lived in small groups
everyone had the benefit of the tribe,
and it worked for them not to stand out.
Our brain still has this kind of view:
an ideal world is one where everyone
has the same, and we all share resources,
but money became a very easy tool
to quantify people's position in a system.
We result to not revealing that too much
because it might end up showing us
that we're not as high on the totem pole
as we thought we were.
So we're torn in a situation
where our brain still thinks one way,
but we accept the normal society that is different.
In that sense, we're in a constant battle.
- What's interesting about the way
our brain resolves this conflict,
is that it thinks about taboos differently
for most other decisions.
- In the world of decision-making,
we're engaging this valuation circuitry;
we're weighing costs and benefits.
- But with taboos, it's different.
- Decisions that involve taboos,
we've been able to identify with neuroimaging,
a different part of the brain is coming online,
the so-called 'executive brain.'
That's the part of the brain that enacts rules.
These decisions are, you know, cut and dry.
Nothing to weigh in terms of costs and benefits.
- The good news is
the executive part of our brain is flexible,
so even our deepest taboos
can change very quickly.
- Mask-wearing was not a social norm,
and then 'bam!' in the course of a month,
we all decided, you know, to reorient our behavior.
- So if that part of the brain is flexible,
what makes money such a taboo still?
- So many people, no matter
what their socioeconomic status is,
have a sense that everybody else
is doing this thing called money better,
and that somehow they're messing it up.
And if we're able to break that money silence
and talk and share, what we find is
'Oh wait a second, nobody's perfect with money.'
So, when we become more
compassionate with ourselves,
and more understanding of our relationship with money,
that shame would go away,
and I really do believe
we would be a healthier society
and healthier individuals.
But, what I find is if you take small baby steps,
and build up that muscle,
and pick really good people to engage
in money conversations to start,
it ultimately breaks through the taboo,
and you find out that talking about money—
people think I'm crazy— but I think it's fun.
- So what concrete steps
can we take to break the money taboo?
Meet Steven and Lindsay.
Lindsay's from Michigan.
- So for those of you not from the Michigan area,
we always hold up our hand
and we say, "I'm from this part of Michigan."
So I'm from this part of Michigan.
- And Steven is a big music fan.
- I am really specific about the lyrical rappers,
which is why Ghostface Killah is still in my top five.
- And as financial therapists,
they're going to explain how to break down
the money taboo.
- Belonging has protected us from the dawn of time,
and whether we like it or not,
we do that a lot with our money.
We want to fit in, we want to belong.
It's maybe buying something that we can't afford,
or maybe taking a trip
because we want to be with our friends,
whereas what actually can really connect you
more deeply to your community
and to your friends,
is being really truthful with them,
and saying something like,
"You know what that trip sounds awesome,
but I can't commit to a full week.
I'll meet up with you guys over the weekend."
So being truthful and kind,
and as transparent as you feel comfortable,
actually the deeper those friendships
and relationships become.
- The biggest advantage of
talking about money more freely
is reducing stress, anxiety,
and the mystery around money.
If you're someone who is uncomfortable about money,
one of the first things you can do
is investigate how you feel about money
and financial decisions.
And using that as a journal prompt,
or a way to explore with a friend or a family member
will help you see why you're avoidant
about talking about money.
More likely than not,
you'll realize that someone has already
experienced getting their bank account closed.
Or someone has already experienced
how the process moves when buying a house.
Whether it is a family member, a friend,
your partner, or anyone else
that you're feeling comfortable bringing up
the topic of money with,
just know that money is something that's changing
every day in our lives.
It's not one thing or one-size-fits-all for anybody.
- So if you're the type of person
who feels like, that you have nobody
to talk to about money:
here's the good news.
I've seen some amazing groups form online,
and then actually take them offline.
So I would encourage you,
depending on where you like to hang out on the internet,
to follow different forums or groups
talking about different financial things,
even how finances intersect with our mental health.
- But really, the essence of talking about money
is talking about,
"What are your emotions around money?
What's important to you?
What are your dreams, what are your hopes?"
I mean those are all great conversations to have,
and it all starts with engaging in a financial conversation.
So, let's break money silence.