[Bashar] Bismillahir Rahmaan nir Raheem
I present to you the second episode of the third interactive dialogue series
under the aegis of the Ghamidi Center of Islamic Learning.
Seated with me is Mr. Yousuf Ghani -
Assalamu 'alaikum Uncle Yousuf.
[Yousuf] Wa'alaikum ussalaam
[Bashar] If I were to give the audience who have just joined us
a recap of our discussion from the previous, the first, episode,
you highlighted a very important issue
which just about every person goes through during their lifetime.
I'm talking about relationships of course,
and how people co-exist -
how men and women progress in their lives and children by forming this bond and
how important a task it is in our lives but one which is often neglected.
To explain all this, you briefly described all of your research's content
in which the first point you highlighted was understanding human nature.
As far as I remember, you said that to solve this problem,
and to go towards a better approach to this problem,
some concepts must be understood.
The first you placed among these was human nature -
how important understanding man's strengths and weaknesses is.
I wish that we resume our discussion today from that same point.
What is the second objective which is discussed in your research content?
[Yousuf] Human psychology and disposition is a great part of my content,
and if I were to describe it, it would be that whenever a person
is to be married or is to fulfill the obligations of a relationship
he must know well about human nature and understand that
when Allah created Man in this world, He gave him volition to act,
as well as free will to proceed on the path he chooses.
He has this choice.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] Then he has been made so dynamic that his desires keep increasing and evolving
and sets goals upon goals.
He has also been given the willpower to make use
of his intelligence and all other resources to fulfill those wishes
and then proceed forth on his path.
[Bashar] Yes.
[Yousuf] So this point should be understood primarily.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] The second thing people should be taught
is the reality of relationships in human nature.
They should be told what a relationship is and how it starts
and what its different forms are.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] Its summary is that Allah created a spouse for man
as soon as He created him.
So it becomes established that relationships
are inherently linked to the creation of the human being.
[Bashar] Linked to human existence.
[Yousuf] Correct.
When he was created here he was given a relation,
and both of them were sent to Earth with this relationship.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] And then with both of their interaction and physical liaison,
the human race commenced.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] The inception of the human race, its evolution, and its growth -
Allah decided that procreation will henceforth occur as a result of
the physical relationship of a man and woman.
[Bashar] Alright.
[Yousuf] This became established then,
and so we must also understand that Allah has now placed
the responsibility of procreation upon humans,
to some extent.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] And that is in the form of cause and effect.
Meaning men and women initiate that cause
which then has an effect and from there the cycle proceeds.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] So this relationship is very important.
[Bashar] The second point, or objective, you've clarified in your content
which should be understood is the essence of a relationship
and why the need for it arises.
Right.
[Yousuf] Man cannot live in this world without a relationship at all.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] This is something which Allah showed to us.
He created Adam, and also his wife along with him,
and then their offspring from them.
This is a complete divine system which is responsible for man's procreation.
[Bashar] Yes.
[Yousuf] Then, it follows that procreation isn't the end of the process;
after children are born, their upbringing rests upon the ones
whose union brought them about.
[Bashar] Yes.
[Yousuf] So there is a complete process for that.
Then, there are two kinds of relationships in the world:
one is the intended relationship, the other is the unintended.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] These are the two terms I've used;
the unintended is the one which isn't in your control:
you can make no efforts for it.
For example, the home I was born in.
Who my father will be, who my mother will be,
and who the relations linked in a loop with that mother will be -
the uncle, the aunt, etc. is not something I decided.
Allah made that decision.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] To explain this I say that these
are the unintended, programmed relationships you've been given.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] We do have them, but we are also the ones who must fulfill them.
Beyond this, Allah has given the reins of control in our hands.
The Intentional, voluntary ones are ones where you choose a friend.
Choosing to befriend so and so.
Similarly, you choose your spouse or your business partner.
These are all examples of that category.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] Within a relationship,
the things which strengthen a relationship and establish it firmly,
or the things which weaken it and create conflicts in it -
to understand these things, there is a list which is dictated by man's nature.
[Bashar] Yes.
[Yousuf] Meaning, if we tell the ones we're counselling about
what things affect relationships.
One human forms a relationship with another.
Clearly, man's disposition and behaviour
determine the dynamics of that relationship.
[Bashar] Here you mentioned behaviour;
we see, Uncle Yousuf, that whichever society a person grows up in,
and whatever circumstances and events he experiences in his childhood
form a part of his personality.
For example, a child grows up in a very violent environment.
This violence unwillingly becomes a part of his behaviour.
When he grows up and pursues a relationship,
he will bring a significant element of violence in his behaviour to it.
My question is, each person's environment, circumstances, and dynamics are different.
[Yousuf] Indeed.
[Bashar] Some people grow up in a very healthy environment
while others are deprived of this.
Do you think people of all backgrounds can adopt the right approach
following the points you have highlighted?
[Yousuf] The pre-requisite here is that this course is for people
who keep themselves intellectually alive.
Meaning they employ their intellects in each situation.
If they decide upon a project or goal, they research it and consult experts,
and then make a well thought-out decision.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] If a person does not possess these qualities,
then no discourse of ours will be of benefit to him or her.
[Bashar] Yes.
[Yousuf] Your question was whether this will be applicable to all people.
Everyone possesses human intellect,
and there are two main aspects of human personality development in this world,
all the others are then connected to them.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] The first is the environment he was born in,
what education and knowledge he received, and what people he associated with
until he grew mature, to an age of 22 or 23, which influenced him.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] Right?
Because a man, woman, or child, in their formative years,
looks to the people around them as role models.
[Bashar] Yes, and he also gains inspiration from them.
[Yousuf] Exactly, and not only inspiration,
but another phenomenon I noted while studying this is
that he also justifies those acts.
For example, if my father did something and I saw him do it my entire life,
regardless of whether it is morally right or wrong -
this also isn't our subject at the moment -
[Bashar] RIght.
[Yousuf] But when I do it, I also justify it as the right thing to do.
This is only natural.
Besides an error manifesting itself which I then research to judge
whether or not my father did right,
it becomes quite difficult to undo.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] This is why you will have seen that whichever community or religion
people are born in, they continue following it.
They continue following their traditions.
If there are social customs, they persist upon them, too.
So, the problem is that man and his personality become prisoner to
his education, environment, and the people he surrounds himself with.
[Bashar] No doubt.
[Yousuf] Then when he later reaches the age of maturity
he gets to understand a lot of things.
He judges and observes them, and then makes decisions.
Obviously, if a person's background lacks all these things,
we can't really tell him anything.
We can only tell people who have the desire, for example,
as someone who did their MBBS and became a doctor -
the plans they made, the universities they researched, the people they consulted,
and then decided that they could become a doctor.
Similarly, when you marry, a person who makes such efforts and decides knowingly
to become a doctor, he can do so in this situation, too.
[Bashar] RIght.
[Yousuf] On the condition that you equip him with the appropriate tools.
[Bashar] Right.
What I've understood from your point is to not let emotions and feelings dominate,
but rather to take things forward sanely, with intellect and deliberation.
You see that our personalities are heavily affected by emotions,
and we sometimes put aside our logic and thought processes
and flow in the current of emotions.
This can be called a weakness of man, and I think you mean that this
weakness needs to be understood.
[Yousuf] Yes, indeed.
To address a weakness of mine,
the primary approach is to be informed by someone or to reflect on it myself,
as to what I lack.
If I become aware of a weakness as being in fact present,
then 50% of the treatment is complete.
Then only willpower and effort remain,
as well as someone's guidance about what to do.
But this choice and volition must emerge from within myself.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] For example, if someone wants to marry,
and you and I both wish for it to happen -
this wish of ours is quite useless.
If he himself approaches it and decides that he must marry,
and just as I became a doctor when I made the decision many years ago -
I consulted many people about what it is and what to do -
in this process, too, I must do the same -
one which will significantly affect my life for many years,
as well as my children.
Can't he make a rational decision?
He absolutely can, and he should, and this is what we, in fact, teach.
[Bashar] Just as man makes other decisions consciously, with a thought process -
[Yousuf] He makes it a project -
[Bashar] Exactly -
[Yousuf] Along with its research.
Actually, the problem that has arisen which I should clarify to you is that
you could ask me is why marriage has been made an issue just recently?
It's been happening since immemorial, ever since there was man.
[Bashar] Yes.
[Yousuf] This is quite important.
Note that marriage and this tradition of procreation is necessary.
Because, after an age, Allah gives each man and woman a natural desire
to give birth to and leave behind their progeny.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] In previous times society and culture used to absorb
all the problems we face now.
There are many reasons for that, and we obviously don't have time now for that -
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] But today the situation is such that everything has come within
man's information which he can then access.
He judges it and takes decisions which are beneficial for him.
[Bashar] Right.
[Yousuf] In these circumstances,
if relationships and marriage are undertaken as similar projects,
then, In Sha Allah, they will be successful in the future.
[Bashar] Right.
You explained things quite clearly.
The time for our second episode draws to a close.
If I were to summarise today's session, the main points were to, one,
understand human nature for the approach to relationships and, second,
after understanding the process of relationships,
we must see things from a logical perspective.
Just as I use my intellect and reason in my other affairs such as
education and career choice,
and we use the same reason even in the smallest of choices.
But in a major decision and responsibility such as this,
we tend to jump in without a rational study and
that is where many issues stem from.
Our episode for today ends here, we will In Sha Allah continue the discussion
from the next episode onwards.
Thank you very much.