for the government it's an historic
moment that marks the end of the free
movement of people from January the 1st
2021 a new immigration system based on
qualifications and earnings will operate
in the UK under the plans workers who
don't have the equivalent of a levels or
Scottish hires will no longer get visas
a salary threshold for workers wanting
to come to the UK would be set at
twenty-five thousand six hundred pounds
for professions facing a shortage of
workers such as nursing will be allowed
in on a lower figure of just over 20,000
and a scheme to bring in seasonal
agriculture workers will be expanded the
Home Secretary says the changes will
boost the economy and attract the
brightest and best officer Gary Gibbon
reports is it no time we took back
control of our immigration policy we add
a population the size of New Castle
every year concern about immigration
helped to deliver a victory to the leave
campaign now Brittany's out the
government wants voters to feel their
message in the referendum is being acted
on yes we will bring overall numbers
down by reducing the number of people
with low skills coming to the United
Kingdom so skilled workers above a pay
floor can come to the country if they've
got a promise of a job but those
classified as unskilled can't leave a
cafe in stratford-upon-avon this morning
do they like the sound of what the
government is announcing we've got to
try it
and then if it doesn't work maybe elect
some people in but we should be more
like Australia where you have to speak
English a job and you can't get benefits
we have come people narrow country who
need jobs and their their jobs there for
them serving them young Bulgarians who
aren't convinced the local workforce
will step in to serve I don't see the
English people they would like to work
this job well we're working in a Greek
restaurant and most of us actually all
of us we are foreigner and there is no
British people wants to work this are
you taking English British people's jobs
I wouldn't say no I don't think so there
are a lot of jobs the hospitality
industry was joined by other sectors
including Social Care and construction
pleading with the government to relax
its planned rules at least give them
more time to adapt
you take the care sector for example
there are a hundred thousand vacancies
right now as we speak so how would the
care sector is going to be able to
recruit the people that they need as
quickly as is going to be required is
going to be challenging we want to be
able to build bridges and roads and
railways and there's an infrastructure
revolution that we need we have an
ageing population well I think that is
the the conversation that we need to
have we government it's the conversation
that we need to have secretary suggested
that conversation wasn't necessary if
those employers recruit from the
millions of Britons not in work and not
seeking work there are eight point four
five million British people in the
United Kingdom that economically
inactive across the country in different
parts of the messages get on your boat
the message is we will be working with
businesses and employers to invest in
people and in skills but the
government's own numbers suggest of
those eight and a half million a big
chunk of students
many others are sick many also looking
after their families others are retired
making the pool of what the government
statisticians call discouraged workers
actually 33,000 by the Thames these were
once the offices of the leave campaign
where some would say this all started
you were working that building over
there yeah the vote leave headquarters
this is the culmination of something
that started there and the build-up to
the referendum card played in the
referendum an immigration is now
neutralized as an issue you think to a
large degree I think yes we saw that
people don't actually might want focus
solely on numbers you know they hold
hundreds of thousands figure that we saw
trotted out in a time when we actually
can't even control the hats the focus is
more on control and today's announcement
by the government delivers exactly that
this is not the end of the debate over
immigration ultimately it was about
numbers more than anything else
I'm I'm just not sure that the be year
down the line two years down the line
that anything with that is actually
going to change some industries still
hope the government could show
flexibility and loosen immigration
controls over time government insists
there's no need to do that employers
must recruit and train better and pay
more well joining me now from
Westminster the Conservative MP John
redwood and in studio in the studio we
have the Economist fighter Shaheen who
stood for labour but lost in the last
election and is director of the left
wing think-tank class fighter Shaheen
this is what people who's it for
Wow it is certainly a policy that isn't
driven by evidence or economic need or
society or a history of emigration as
well as immigration so you have to
wonder where it comes from and I think
it is driven by xenophobia and we see it
in the context of a government that has
come in that has said voted against
child refugees being able to be united
with their families you know we've seen
this week that they hired someone that
was into eugenics you know they keep
sending out this message of xenophobia
and when you look at the facts alongside
what they're doing it just doesn't go
together you know if you think about
what this is meant to solve it doesn't
solve low wages what
with putting those eight and a half
million people who are currently being
old being sick looking after members of
their family to work because they're
doing other things right they're sick
they're caring for people and and you
know it's a nonsense number really when
you look at it and and you know again if
you want to do something about wages if
you want to do something about jobs you
don't focus on immigration you have to
deal with the issues in the labor market
that are more about trade unions and the
impact of the crash and austerity so
John why do you think these eight and a
half million people who Priti Patel
talked about today are suddenly going to
start applying for jobs that they don't
currently apply for what I welcome about
today is is the vision of a better paid
more productive workforce and it's
mainly about getting people better paid
because they're more skilled and they're
supported by better investment in the
care home or in the office or in the
factory or wherever it is so you think
there's no ball isn't that a great yes
of course I want care workers to be paid
more and it has to be paid for out of
productivity gains higher quality work
more training more support for them and
above all more investment in equipment
and computers and so forth that kind of
system in their tasks we've got a great
modern vision for a better society in
which people have better more rewarding
jobs that are better paid and we're
trying to lead the employers with us we
don't like this model where they don't
mechanize they don't put the support
behind their workers they don't invest
in to do cleaning them isn't it I'm
doing simple tasks like that that can't
be done by robots well the basic care is
a very skilled job and it needs to be
properly rewarded but there are all
sorts of aids to cleaning and
transporting and handling and so forth
where you do need decent equipment and
you certainly need very good information
systems to know what the needs of an
individual is and that can make the the
care worker more effective and provide a
better quality of care it's not just
about cost it's about quality above all
else the best yes
businesses the best businesses invest in
both their people and in their
technology because what it should be
driven by is a passion to have higher
quality care in the care home high
quality service in the office or
whatever it is we've had the
Conservatives in government for 10 years
and it's been in their gift to pay
higher wages for care workers it's been
in their gift to invest in nurses
bursaries for instance let's talk about
my old teacher that I saw that hasn't
had an inflation and be in pay rise for
10 years that's not because of
immigration that's because of a public
sector pay cap so you know this is a
distraction and how perfect for the
otoni ins that have undermines wages in
this country undermined workers rights
in this country to make us focus on the
romanians
rather than what they're up to and it
and it's frustrating to see this policy
also because we are limiting ourselves
what we are doing is also saying that we
can't move abroad all of my friends all
of the people that have moved to Spain
learnt Spanish live there you know this
this new system I mean so John you know
people might sort of wonder whether the
actual immigration numbers are going to
come down as a result of this system why
are you so sure that they will we
haven't asked me that yet I mean the
Home Secretary said she she and
disappear people in numbers well not
everybody does but there are there are
certainly very great pressures on
housing and public services particularly
in certain areas and we do have to have
a pace of change which is acceptable to
the people who already live here and we
want to use the talents that the people
really live here to the full and get
them into more of those better paid jobs
but the the Home Secretary and the
government has it within their power to
control the numbers rather better than
we were able to when we had the unfair
asymmetric system where we had to accept
anybody from the European Union but we
had to be tougher on non Europe I rather
welcome to that that we're going to be
fair to the whole world I don't think
people friendship Jamaica should be
behind in the queue people from the
continent of Europe for example so this
would be a fair system this will lead
solutions an African coming to Britain
and the government will
side along with Parliament how many is
appropriate and they will be able to
flex this system because they can decide
to make it more difficult to get in or
they can decide to make it easier to get
in depending on how many people we think
we would like and depending on what the
needs of the economy are you're having
under our control so we can have a
proper debate and then come to sensible
decisions do you think they get it
slightly wrong the first time they'll
their result we're short of time I mean
do you think I mean you seem to be
saying that the there will be a
rebalancing so that we will get more
people from Asia and Africa and fewer
people from Europe are you sure the
rebalancing will be that we have fewer
people from Europe because quite a lot
of people came in from Europe for those
very low paid jobs or came in with no
job and one other big feature of this
new scheme which I think many people
will welcome is that when you come you
you have to stay here for a bit and work
here for a bit before you gain
entitlement to all those benefits which
were automatically provided to EU
citizens under the old arrangements we
couldn't even control our own benefits
okay Fiser Sheheen don't you have to
accept that this is political and this
is what people wanted and if that's what
they want and that they accept that
there's an economic cost in terms of tax
receipts or whatever but they want it
for cultural reasons you just got to
accept that well you can just accept
that or you can say we should actually
be trying to change people's minds on
this because you're right that people
say that some people everyone some
people say that I'm even willing to lose
money to have less immigration now we
have to get to the heart of that because
ultimately what that is saying what that
points to our feelings of xenophobia
that's not saying it's because of the
economy that's saying because I just
feel uncomfortable with people coming
here now if we invested more in our
community you don't have to be
xenophobic to you to want to maintain
your culture I mean you know it's
interesting that we have this idea of
British culture that doesn't recognize
centuries of people going abroad as well
right we've always had a multi-ethnic
working class for instance and we are
just not having that conversation and
that's actually the fault of the
progressives in the left as well for not
making that
but this policy will fail just like the
caps fail just like the targets fell
we're gonna have more on this later on
in the program Pfizer Shaheen and John
Robert thank you very much indeed
the government's announcement of a
radical overhaul of the immigration
system how many people are allowed to
come and work in this country isn't just
a question about our economy for some
the issue is about our national identity
over the decades Prime Minister's have
tried to get to grips with this highly
emotive subject since Caribbean family
started coming to the UK in the 1950s
our politicians have danced around the
issue of immigration should they talk
about it or shouldn't they and if they
do is that inevitably racist in the
run-up to her first election victory in
1979 Margaret Thatcher presented a stark
assessment of the dangers of immigration
people are really rather afraid that
this country might be rather swamped by
people with a different culture as
Britain became a more multicultural
society that sort of language became
unacceptable but did the ideas behind it
in the 2005 election the Conservatives
tapped into concerns over immigration
saying it wasn't racist to talk about
controls their question to voters are
you thinking what we're thinking the
answer was apparently no Tony Blair was
returned for a third time but when
Gordon Brown took over as Prime Minister
his vision for Britain included this
drawing on the talents of all two great
British jobs for British workers a
message perhaps to these workers in
Labour's heartlands protesting against
the use of migrant labour from Europe
experts had forecast that perhaps 13,000
workers would come to the UK after 8:00
Eastern European countries joined the EU
instead hundreds of thousands arrived by
2010 the Conservatives had decided it
was time to make a dramatic promise I
would like to see net immigration in the
tens of thousands not in the hundreds of
thousands so a very significant cut but
it wasn't cut in fact it went up
to more than 300-thousand at one point
shortly after she became prime minister
tourism a summed up the tortured nature
this debate with a now notorious phrase
but if you believe you're a citizen of
the world you're a citizen of nowhere
the often vitriolic referendum campaign
forced arguments about immigration and
race center stage nights of Faraj
believes that this notorious breaking
point poster one the vote for leave his
critics said it showed dishonesty and
intolerance its ultimate legacy perhaps
to bomb the idea of immigration controls
and racism more firmly together it is
racist whether or not those races the
truth is our prime ministers of real
races the rapid a the winner at last I
Spit Awards is in no doubt where the
current prime minister stands that claim
has been firmly rejected that mr.
Johnson's allies well I think his
comments a wholly inaccurate wholly
inappropriate I've known the Prime
Minister for a significant period of
time even before I became Home Secretary
he is absolutely not a racist well
joining me now is Nels Abbey who is also
a think like a white man as sat on being
black in the corporate world and Cindy
you is broadcast editor of The Spectator
thanks to both of you should come in now
let's let me start with you do you think
that what the government announced today
will turn the clock back it's good
question I don't know I do you know I
don't think so I think that we were
still remain relied on on labor from
outside of the air from labor from fire
wide across the entire world if I may
just give an example of where we are as
a nation right now if I 2014 I was lucky
enough to have my first child of my only
child as my daughter and the two things
I went through my mind when I was
actually in there to a delivery room was
number one I am so happy there i'm don
the side of the padilla where my wife is
right now and number two it was almost
like watching a Formula One pit stop of
almost people from different parts of
the world around my wealth or around my
wife putting the epidural in her helping
her out to help I'd deliver my daughter
my daughter's delivered by so many
different people so many but I'm all
over the world from all of the work and
I thought that many people within our
society often don't realize that to a
contribution that people from around
weather
to contributing to this actual or giving
to this nation and making it what it is
today it makes it great a place so it's
the problem that we've become a nation
of immigrants by default but not by
design that these kind of numbers have
crept up on people would never fully
explain but except that we were never
anything but a nation of immigrants I
think that we've always had immigration
coming and going I think we've also been
a nation that's always been going way
beyond our boundaries way beyond our
borders I'm for a place called my Paris
so I'm really from a place called
Nigeria in Ghana
those two places were places that were
created by Britain Nigeria for example
just a place called a group of places
that were amalgamated by Britain for the
very purpose of British commercial
address and as a result of that people
at myself' are here today Sydney should
we celebrate the fact that this country
is now such an amalgam of so many
different people like all of us I mean I
was born in Germany you were born of
China you were born to Nigerian parents
oh yeah absolutely
here we are troika Britain yes
absolutely and I think we often forget
how diversity and how exceptionally
diverse we are when it comes to the
global stage you know as you say I was
born in China in China 99 percent of
people look like me they are Han Chinese
right so there's no diversity there
there's no chat of racism because
there's no minority there's no minority
to say at least to say you know you are
being racist and of course in recent yes
that's changed a little bit now but in
this country racism is such a topic
because we have such a vocal minority we
have such a vibrant minority community
that we can say actually this isn't good
enough but the problem is the language
isn't it I mean when Theresa May says if
you're a citizen of the world you're a
citizen of nowhere there is a deeply
charged phrase too many people and
deeply offensive frankly I think I mean
I don't agree with her on that
I'm very cosmopolitan in my outlook on I
would say that I'm very liberal on this
perspective I would love to go traveling
around the world I would love to live in
different places
well what she's tapping into is a very
conservative sporty conservative way of
looking at life which is not necessarily
offensive it's just community based you
know community is based on people you
know people you share a history with a
religion with a language with and that's
understandable I think but but there you
know we're talking about numbers and
we're talking about the economics but
you know depending on who comes in or
who doesn't come in in the next few
years it will this will fundamentally
change the tone and the nature of our
country weren't in it potentially do so
but the reality
matters that we are moving into the
unknown we the reality is that we just
actually don't know in a good way or a
bad way in both ways really truly a to
feels like much of brixon everything
else is actually been one of the biggest
Gamble's known to mankind it was a
condom either size of ours for example
in the etro because I've seen that our
culture as a society what we're on right
now and the direction we've been moving
in over the last 20-30 years I was born
in the 80s I know how boring 80s were
compared to say where we are right now
and and I think Britain has become a lot
more exciting a lot more fun diverse and
beautiful place but I think we should be
happy which is celebrate but I can
understand to certain degree why there
is some apprehensions about it I can
understand where it's coming from and I
think it's actually coming not from I
don't think is a legitimate I can
understand them I think it's coming from
actually politicians or often shifting
the blame for things that they shifted
the blame on to immigrants for things
like their to blame for and will that
get worse or will it get better do you
think it will consistently get worse as
things go wrong as fingers gonna look we
boom and bust economy as fields go wrong
the skateboard has always been the
minority has always been the immigrant
has always been the person so he's been
the cheapest person to escape with
things go wrong Cynthia should there
have been something today in the
government seem policy that says you
know we're gonna change the numbers and
we're gonna change the criteria but we
welcome all of you who've come here I
mean I didn't hear the lovin that a lot
of people here who have come from
outside 14.5 percent of the population
you know I actually disagree with that
because I think what you know what is
good Global Britain visa right that is a
welcoming message say we mean that is
one of the cheapest belt out there well
it is I mean at the immigration the
points-based system today has rarely
been spelled out quite a lot and if you
look at it for non EU migrants own only
you Nationals it's actually become more
liberal not less liberal
what was the fear what was known about
what was a salary threshold has been
moved from 30,000 down to 25,000 what
accounts a skilled labor caste but moved
down from degree level to a level so you
know that is a liberalization of our
immigration system for non-eu Nationals
the salary threshold is it what happened
with the freaking of England figure the
people these are great back Britain for
example William Shakespeare in today's
day and age wouldn't have made it to the
Italian threshold the average writer and
by eleven thousand pounds a year in the
society and trust me that takes a high
level of skill and that's it
and that's where the government has
exemptions for people in the arts world
for people in a music world who are not
in that battle just yet and that is
spelled out today don't you want young
people to come here and stay here young
people who don't earn that kind of money
because they then you know they will buy
into you know you know the British Dream
if there is such a thing and stay and
become stakeholders yes absolutely and
that's why you know the degree level is
there the a level of skills and
definition is there but also you know
that salary threshold is lowered for
scientists for other high skilled
migrants you know from 25,000 to
something closer to 20 though oh yeah I
just think though again they be the way
in which we're defining skills or
skilled within this actual debate or so
is deed really offensive also to what's
often dismissed as unskilled labor
actually critical to our economy in our
society to help make it what it is today
we found out sadly and else into you
thanks very much indeed