REAL-TIME CLOSED CAPTIONING PROVIDED BY U.S. CAPTIONING
COMPANY
COMPANY >> TWICE IN RECENT ELECTIONS,
THE PRESIDENT DIDN’T GET THE
MOST AMOUNT OF VOTES.
THE POLITICAL STRUCTURE.
FOR YEARS, HOME OWNERS FOUND
THEMSELVES TAXED ON PROPERTIES
OVER 600 MILLION DOLLARSMENT
THIS TIME IT WAS A LAWSUIT
AGAINST DETROIT AND WAYNE
COUNTY.
COUNTY. TODAY IS SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 16TH,
2020 AND THIS IS FLASH POINT.
>> HI, WELCOME TO FLASH POINT.
WE COME TO YOU AFTER ANOTHER
VERY BUSY NEWS WEEK.
EVERYTHING FROM THE EXPANDING
WORRIES OVER THE CORONAVIRUS TO
ANOTHER ROUGH AND TUMBLE WEEK.
ONE STORY MAY HAVE ESCAPED YOUR
NOTICE THIS PAST WEEK AND IT
LAYS THE GROUNDWORK AND
CONTINUING CONVERSATIONS WHETHER
WE COULD MAKE AMERICANS BETTER.
LAST WEEK THE VIRGINIA HOUSE
PASSED A BILL THAT WOULD EYE
WARD TO THE POPULAR VOTE ACROSS
THE COUNTRY.
THE COUNTRY. SAY VIRGINIANS VOTED FOR
CANDIDATE A, BUT CANDIDATE B WON
THE VOTE.
THE VOTE. THEN THEY WOULD GO TO CANDIDATE
B.
B. IF THE SENATE AGREES.
THEY WOULD BE THE NATIONAL
POPULAR VOTE INTERSTATE COMPACT.
SO FAR 15 STATES AND DISTRICT OF
COLUMBIA HAVE SIGNED ON TO WHAT
IS BASICALLY AN END AROUND ON
THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE.
NOW, GETTING RID OF THE AMERICAN
ELECTORAL COLLEGE WOULD BE A
VERY COMPLEX ORDEAL, BUT STATES
DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO DECIDE HOW
THEY WANT THEIR ELECTORAL VOTES
AWARDED AND THE STATES NOW PART
OF THE COMPACT APPARENTLY AGREE
WITH THE 65% OF AMERICANS
OVERALL TO FEEL THE POPULAR VOTE
WINNER SHOULD BE THE WIN WHO
BECOME PRESIDENT.
BECOME PRESIDENT. WOULDN’T THAT STRIP MORE
SPARSELY POPULATED STATES OF ANY
KIND OF INFLUENCE IN AN
ELECTION?
ELECTION? THIS MORNING, WE’LL DIG INTO
ELECTORAL COLLEGE, SHOULD IT
STAY OR SHOULD IT GO.
ALSO THIS WEEK, A LAWSUIT WAS
FILED AGAINST WAYNE COUNTY ON
THE MASSIVE TAXATION OF DETROIT
HOME OWNERS.
HOME OWNERS. THE PROBLEM ADDED UP TO MORE
THAN HALF A BILLION DOLLARS OF
INFLATED TAX ASSESSMENTS.
A LOT OF PEOPLE LOST THEIR HOMES
OVER IT.
OVER IT. AND COMPOUNDING THAT PROBLEM WAS
A LATE NOTICE TO THOSE WHO HAD
TOO LITTLE TIME TO APPEAL THE
ASSESSMENTS.
ASSESSMENTS. WE’LL DIG INTO THE CASE TODAY ON
FLASH POINT.
FLASH POINT. ♪
♪ >> WELL, THROUGHOUT THE
IMPEACHMENT PROCESS, WE HEARD
THE PRESIDENT AND SUPPORTERS
ARGUED THAT DEMOCRATS WERE
TRYING TO OVERTURN THE WILL OF
63 MILLION VOTERS.
WELL, THEN AGAIN THE ELECTORAL
COLLEGE TABULATION MEANT GOING
AGAINST THE WILF 44WILL OF THOSE
WHO VOTED FOR HILLARY CLINTON.
AND TALKING ABOUT GETTING RED OF
THE ELECTORAL COUNTY.
VIRGINIA COULD BE THE NEXT.
LET’S TALK ABOUT THE BIGGEST
FISH IN THAT POND THE ELECTORAL
COLLEGE.
COLLEGE. HERE TO TALK ABOUT IT IS STEPHEN
STEPHEN, AND LONG TIME FLASH
POINT VIEWERS WILL RECALL THE
FOUNDER OF PUBLIUS.
SANDY BARUAH AND NOLAN FINLEY
EDITOR.
EDITOR. AND START WITH YOU.
I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE
UNDERSTAND THAT THE ELECTORAL
COLLEGE IS TO PROTECT SMALLER
POPULOUS STATES WHICH WOULD GET
NO ATTENTION FROM CANDIDATES IF
ALL THEY HAD TO DO IS SPEND
THEIR TIME IN PLACES LIKE
CALIFORNIA, TEXAS, FLORIDA, NEW
YORK.
YORK. >> SO I DON’T THINK THEY GET
VERY MUCH ATTENTION AND PLUS YOU
START WITH THE PREMISE THAT A
LOT OF PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE
ELECTORAL COLLEGE AND I’M NOT
SURE THAT ANYONE UNDERSTANDS THE
ELECTORAL COLLEGE.
ELECTORAL COLLEGE. ITS FUNDAMENTAL PURPOSE AT THE
TIME THAT IT WAS CREATED WAS
REALLY A FEAR OF TRYING TO GET
CONSENSUS OUT OF A BRAND NEW
COUNTRY THAT WAS DIVIDED INTO
SLAVE STATES AND NONSLAVE STATES
AND ALSO HAD DECIDED TO NOT
ALLOW WOMEN TO VOTE.
SO THERE’S HUGE CHUNKS OF A
POPULATION WITH VERY HIGH IDEALS
AND THE IDEA OF GOING WITH A
FULL POPULAR VOTE WAS KIND OF
COMPLICATED.
COMPLICATED. >> AND DIDN’T KNOW HOW TO COUNT
ALL OF THE SLAVES AS CITIZENS OR
PART OF THE POPULATION.
>> FAILED ON THAT FRONT FOR A
LONG TIME.
LONG TIME. >> SO IS IT TIME THEN, STEPHEN,
FOR TO GO BECAUSE IT’S SUCH A
RELIC OR DOES IT SERVE--
>> IT SERVES NO USEFUL PURPOSE
AND GO BACK TO THE HISTORY AND
THE CONNECTION TO INEQUALITY,
WHICH VINCE POINTED OUT, WHICH
IS A MORAL REASON NOT TO EMBRACE
IT.
IT. BUT THERE’S ALSO SOME IDEAS THAT
WE’VE COME UP WITH IN THE
INTERVENING 240-SOME YEARS THAT
CONTRA CONVENIENT THE ELECTORAL
COLLEGE.
COLLEGE. THE CONCEPT OF ONE PERSON, ONE
VOTE, WHICH POWERS OUR THINKING
OF BALLOTING IN THIS COUNTRY,
RUNS RIGHT IN THE FACE OF THE
IDEA OF BIG STATES WITH LOTS OF
LAND, BUT FEW PEOPLE HAVING MORE
SAY OVER THE PROCESS THAN LOTS
OF PEOPLE.
OF PEOPLE. AND SO, THAT’S ANOTHER REASON TO
GET RID OF IT.
THE OTHER THING THAT’S TRUE IS
THAT, I MEAN, AS POINTED OUT THE
REPUBLIC WAS DIFFERENT WHEN THIS
WAS THOUGHT UP AND ONE OF THE
THINGS THEY WERE TRYING TO DO
WAS LEAVEN WAS A LOT OF
STRUCTURAL WAYS THAT THE STATES
WERE HOLDING BALLOTING AND
COUNTING VOTES IN ORDER TO MAKE
SURE IT CAME OUT WITH A NATIONAL
KIND OF CONSENSUS.
THAT’S NOT TRUE ANYMORE, I MEAN,
VOTING IS STANDARDIZED IN THIS
COUNTRY, IN A WAY THAT IT WASN’T
THEN.
THEN. SO, IT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE.
>> SANDY, MY HUNCH IS THAT THIS
ARGUMENT WOULD GET A LOT FURTHER
IN AMERICA IF ABOUT THE TWO
EXAMPLES THAT I COULD POINT OUT
DIDN’T INVOLVE DEMOCRATS WHO
RECEIVED THE MORE OF THE POPULAR
VOTE, BUT REPUBLICANS WHO ENDED
UP WINNING.
UP WINNING. SO, YOU’RE NOT GOING TO GET A
WHOLE LOT OF BUY-IN FROM RED
STATES ON THIS, ARE WE?
>> A COUPLE OF THINGS, I THINK
THERE’S STRONG EVIDENCE THAT THE
ELECTORAL COLLEGE WAS NOT
CREATED BY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS,
BUT ALIENS WHO LANDED AT ROSWELL
OR THE GOSES AT BYZANTINE
EMPIRE.
EMPIRE. THE MORE YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THE
MORE YOU SCRATCH YOUR HEAD.
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR.
AT THIS MOMENT THIS REFERENDUM
THAT YOU REFERRED TO VIRGINIA,
RIGHT NOW IT’S ONLY BLUE
SUPPORTING IT BECAUSE OUR RECENT
HISTORY IS--
HISTORY IS-- >> MOSTLY BLUE STATES.
>> VIRGINIA IS IN THE MIDDLE
SOMEWHERE.
SOMEWHERE. >> WELL.
>> WELL. >> COLORADO.
>> COLORADO. >> IT IS THE BLUE PART OF THE
VIRGINIA LEGISLATURE THAT
APPROVED THIS.
APPROVED THIS. >> DEVIN: YES.
>> NOW, LET’S GO BACK TO 2004
WHEN MY BOSS AT THAT TIME GEORGE
W. BUSH WAS RUNNING AGAINST JOHN
KERRY, A FLIP OF THE VOTES IN
OHIO THE OPPOSITE RESULT.
GEORGE BUSH HAD, I DON’T KNOW, A
4 MILLION LEAD IN THE VOTE
COUNT, BUT HE WOULD HAVE LOST
THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE AND JOHN
KERRY WOULD HAVE BEEN SO IT
COULD EASILY WORK THE OTHER WAY.
BUT YOU’RE RIGHT, THIS
PARTICULAR INITIATIVE LOOKS VERY
MUCH LIKE A BLUE INITIATIVE AND
LAST THING BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU
ASK FOR.
ASK FOR. EVEN THOUGH THE ELECTORAL
COLLEGE WAS BUILT BY THE ALIENS
THAT LANDED AT ROSWELL, THERE,
YOU KNOW, BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU
ASK FOR BECAUSE WHILE OUR SYSTEM
NOW IS FAR FROM PERFECT, THE
ALTERNATIVES ARE FAR FROM
PERFECT EITHER SO BE CAREFUL
WHAT YOU ASK FOR.
>> YEAH, THIS ACTUALLY STARTED
OUT AS A REPUBLICAN MOVEMENT.
THE GUY WHOSE CHAMPIONED IT HERE
AND ELSEWHERE SAW THE FORMER
REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIR, THEY DID
IT FOR THE REASON YOU MIGHT
EXPECT.
EXPECT. THEY LOOKED AT THE ELECTORAL
COLLEGE AND WITH CALIFORNIA, NEW
YORK AND THE OTHER HEAVILY
POPULATED DEMOCRATIC STATES,
THEY RECOGNIZE THAT DEMOCRATS
START ALMOST AT THE FINISH LINE
WHEN THE BALLOTING STARTS, AND
THIS NATIONAL POPULAR VOTE IDEA
WAS AIMED AT ASSURING THAT
REPUBLICAN VOTERS IN PLACES LIKE
CALIFORNIA AND NEW YORK ACTUALLY
HAD THEIR VOTE COUNTED MID
SOMETHING ON ELECTION DAY.
>> THE IDEA THAT SMALLER STATES,
CLEARLY, I THINK WE’RE ALL
CONCERNED THAT IOWA AND PLACES
LIKE IOWA AND NEW HAMPSHIRE, GET
OUTSIZE ATTENTION EARLY ON, I
THINK THEIR CONCERN THEY WOULD
GET NO ATTENTION AT ALL.
>> I’M NOT SURE THAT’S TRUE,
MOST, LIKE A DOZEN STATES, 10,
12 STATES GET 80, 90% OF THE
ELECTION CAMPAIGNING AND A BIG
STATE LIKE CALIFORNIA, WHAT’S
THE POINT OF GOING, YOU KNOW
WHICH WAY IT’S GOING TO GO, THEY
DON’T GET A WHOLE LOT OF
ATTENTION, NEW YORK DOESN’T GET
A WHOLE LOT OF ATTENTION, BUT
THERE ARE SMALLER STATES, YOU
KNOW, NEVADA, FOR EXAMPLE, GETS
A LOT OF ATTENTION.
SO I THINK IT FORCES A
NATIONWIDE CAMPAIGN.
NATIONWIDE CAMPAIGN. >> BUT THE BATTLE GROUND STATES
DO CHANGE OVER A RELATIVELY
SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.
>> DEVIN: WE’RE SITTING IN ONE.
>> 1988, NOT THAT LONG AGO,
OREGON, BRIGHT, BLUE, NEON BLUE
OREGON WAS A BATTLE GROUND STATE
AND GEORGE H.W. BUSH ALMOST WON
IT OVER DUKAKIS.
SO THINGS CHANGE.
>> DEVIN: VINCE, AT THE VERY
LEAST, WOULD IT MAKE MORE
SENSE--
SENSE-- WE ONLY HAVE TWO STATES THAT
ALLOCATE LEK CORAL STATES AND
EVERYBODY ELSE WINNER TAKE ALL.
WOULD IT MAKE MORE SENSE, BY THE
WAY, IF WE WOULD HAVE DONE THAT
IN 2016 DONALD TRUMP’S MARGIN OF
VICTORY WOULD HAVE BEEN LARGER,
AN INTERESTING THING TO NOTE.
SHOULD IT HAVE BEEN--
>> WINNER TAKE ALL TWEAK,
GETTING BACK TO I THINK SANDY’S
POINT BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH
FOR, THAT’S ALWAYS A GOOD THING
TO THINK ABOUT WHEN YOU’RE GOING
INTO ANY KIND OF ELECTORAL
REFORM, RIGHT?
REFORM, RIGHT? IS WE WIELD THE MOST POWERFUL
VOTE THAT ANY HUMAN BEINGS HAVE
EVER WIELDED, LIKE THE VOTE CAST
BY AN AMERICAN VOTER IS THE MOST
IMPORTANT VOTE AND MOST POWERFUL
VOTE ANYONE HAS EVER CAST.
THAT BEING SAID, FOR TO--
FOR 200-SOME ODD YEARS WE’VE
BEEN SORT OF TWEAKING THIS
PARTICULAR ONE AND IN THE 1800’S
WE WENT TO WINNER TAKE ALL WHICH
ESSENTIALLY CREATED THE SYSTEM
THAT WE HAVE TODAY.
THERE ARE -- THERE ARE ALL KINDS
OF WAYS THAT WE COULD TWEAK
THIS, BUT I THINK WHAT’S
FUNDAMENTALLY IMPORTANT IS THAT
THE PUBLIC--
THE PUBLIC-- THE GENERAL PUBLIC AND THE
AMERICAN VOTER BELIEVES THAT
THEY ARE ELECTING THE PRESIDENT
AND THE CONCEPT THAT THIS OTHER
SORT OF ARCANE, YOU KNOW,
ROSWELLION MODEL ACTUALLY
DECIDES IT RESULTS IN A
TECHNICALITY CONVERSATION AT THE
END OF EVERY ELECTION THAT IT
COMES UP IS NOT HEALTHY FOR THE
DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM.
DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM. IT DOESN’T AFFIRM THE SENSE THAT
PEOPLE HAVE, THAT THESE VOTES
ARE IMPORTANT AND IT’S IMPORTANT
TO CAST THEM AND IMPORTANT TO
GET YOUR VOICE HEARD.
SO, I THINK WE COULD TWEAK IT.
I THINK WE’VE TAKEN ENOUGH TIME
TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT AND I
THINK IT WILL BE OKAY.
>> DEVIN: THE LAST POLL THAT I
SAW 60% OF AMERICANS BELIEVE THE
POPULAR VOTE WINNER GETS IT.
IF YOU TOOK THE SAME POLL ON AN
ELECTORAL BASIS WE’D BE
CERTAINLY CLOSER.
CERTAINLY CLOSER. WHAT DO WE DO?
>> I THINK, AGAIN, THIS IS
AKNOCKNISM AND WE’VE HAD
ANACHRONISMS IN THE HISTORY OF
THE REPUBLIC BEFORE AND WE GET
RID OF THEM.
WE CHANGE BECAUSE THE CULTURE
HAS CHANGE, BECAUSE THE LAW HAS
CHANGED.
CHANGED. BECAUSE THE WAY WE SEE EACH
OTHER CHANGED.
OTHER CHANGED. >> DEVIN: SHOULD WE CHANGE THE
FACT THAT WE’RE A REPUBLIC MADE
UP OF STATES?
THIS WOULD MAKE US MUCH MORE OF
A COLLECTIVE RATHER THAN THIS
50-STATE REPUBLIC AND THE
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA.
>> NO QUESTION.
I MEAN, THAT’S ONE OF THE AND
KNACKNISMAND--
KNACKNISMAND-- ANACHRONISMS, THIS REPUBLIC OF
STATES NOTION WHEN IT CAME TO
NOW.
NOW. THE STATES IS NO MORE NEAR AS
DRAMATIC AND IMPORTANT THEN AS
THEN, IN TERMS OF THE STRUCTURE
OF VOTING.
OF VOTING. IF THERE WERE ANOTHER COUNTRY WE
WERE HELPING TO BECOME A
DEMOCRACY CAME UP TO US AND
SAID, HEY, WE’VE GOT A WAY TO
MAKE SURE THAT THE LOSER CAN
ACTUALLY WIN AN ELECTION, WE
WOULD LOSE OUR MINDS AND WE
WOULD SAY THAT’S THE CRAZIEST
THING EVER.
THING EVER. >> WE’RE TALKING TWO DIFFERENT
THINGS HERE.
THINGS HERE. A BROADER CONVERSATION IS THE
ELECTORAL COLLEGE GOOD OR NOT,
OR IS THIS NATIONAL COMPACT THAT
THE VIRGINIA HOUSE OF DELEGATES
JUST PASSED A GOOD IDEA.
>> DEVIN: A WAY OF KEEPING THE
ELECTORAL COLLEGE IN PLACE, BUT
FORMING IT TO THE POPULAR VOTE.
>> I THINK THEY’RE TWO VERY
DIFFERENT CONVERSATIONS.
DIFFERENT CONVERSATIONS. I THINK REFORMING OR DOING THE
WAY OF THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE HAS
CERTAIN PROS AND CONS.
THIS IDEA THAT WAS JUST, YOU
KNOW, AGAIN, IT’S BEEN PASSED BY
SEVERAL STATES.
SEVERAL STATES. >> INCLUDING MICHIGAN’S HOUSE.
>> BACK BEFORE THERE WAS
ELECTRICITY, YES.
ELECTRICITY, YES. BUT HERE IS THE PROBLEM WITH THE
EXISTING--
EXISTING-- WITH THAT RECENTLY PASSED
VIRGINIA THING.
VIRGINIA THING. BASICALLY IT’S TELLING VIRGINIA
VOTERS, LISTEN, YOUR VOTE REALLY
DOESN’T MATTER, SIT BACK IN YOUR
LAWN CHAIR, HAVE A BEER, HAND IT
OVER TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY
BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY,
IF YOU VOTE 60% FOR CANDIDATE X
AND THE REST OF THE CANDIDATE
VOTES FOR CANDIDATE Y WE’RE
GOING TO AWARD YOUR ELECTORAL
VOTES TO CANDIDATE Y EVEN THOUGH
YOU YOURSELF, YOUR STATE VOTED
THE OTHER WAY.
I THINK THAT’S A TERRIBLE WAY
FOR ENHANCE ELECTORAL
PARTICIPATION AND IN OUR
SOCIETY.
SOCIETY. >> YEAH, THERE ARE SUPREME COURT
CASES ON THAT NOW.
>> YOU’VE GOT THE 40% WHOSE VOTE
WON’T COUNT AT ALL.
DOESN’T COUNT AT ALL IN THE
ELECTORAL COLLEGE SYSTEM, THEIR
VOTE DOESN’T GET ADDED TO THE
VOTES IN OTHER STATES WHO WENT
FOR THEIR CANDIDATE.
IT JUST DISAPPEARS.
I THINK THIS MAKES EVERY VOTE
COUNT AND IT DOES ENCOURAGE.
I THINK IT WILL ENCOURAGE
GREATER PARTICIPATION IN THOSE
STATES WHERE THE WINNER IS
ASSUMED.
ASSUMED. >> DEVIN: WELL TO SANDY’S POINT
THEN, BETTER TO DO AWAY WITH THE
ELECTORAL COLLEGE AND CREATE A
FOE--
FOE-- >> THAT TAKES A CONSTITUTIONAL
AMENDMENT.
AMENDMENT. >> AGAIN, WE’VE DONE THIS
BEFORE.
BEFORE. IN THE ORIGINAL CONSTITUTION,
THERE WAS NO DIRECT ELECTION OF
THE U.S. SENATE AND VERY SIMILAR
IMPULSES WHERE BEHIND THAT, THIS
IDEA OF TRYING TO LEAVEN SOME
DIFFERENCES AMONG STATES OF THE
FEAR OF MAJORITIES AND THEIR DIE
RAN CAL --
TYRANNICAL INSTINCTS, IT BECAME
OUTDATED AND WE’RE NOT GOING TO
DO THAT.
DO THAT. >> DEVIN: I’VE GOT TO GET TO A
BREAK.
BREAK. AS WE GO TO BREAK, TAKE TO HEART
WHAT BEN SAID, YOU’VE SAID IT
BEFORE, THE VOTE THAT THE
AMERICAN VOTER HOLDS IS THE MOST
POWERFUL THINGS IN ELECTORAL
POLITICS ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.