i think netflix you know if you make a
deal with them they acquire the project
i think i think people will be surprised
for what they actually acquire
independent films for
what kind of money are distributors
paying for movies today
you know
it depends i mean you could get you can
get a a good distributor to come in and
it's all about territories how much term
uh how long is the contract going to be
um you know
making deals with certain platforms or
certain distributors looks really good
on social media and at cocktail parties
but
some of those deals can go 25 30 years
now and
they pay you know
a couple hundred grand maybe maybe more
but
what are they owning and for how long
and what does that limit your other
sales potential
um you know i'm a big fan of trying to
sell films territory by territory there
are times where you get opportunities to
sell them in a block where somebody will
come along and say we want to own 10 11
territories and here's what we're
willing to pay
sometimes it's good sometimes it's not i
think you have to look at both sides of
it you have to look at the long term or
how long are they going to have it you
know sometimes these
these awful financial offers come with
30 years on the other side where you
know i'm 50. i don't i don't need to be
80 to get the rights back you know so
sometimes the lesser money
per territory if it's shorter term three
to five years you know could be more
attractive every deal is different
you know you may get
every territory spending between ten and
forty thousand dollars but there's you
know ultimately fifty plus territories
to sell around the globe they take time
um a lot of them don't pay up front
uh a lot of them don't pay until they
have it delivered and it's past qc so
you know just because you make a deal
you may not see the money for six months
people forget that um
so that's again why you know when you're
an independent filmmaker i think you
have to look at the real picture it
doesn't mean you're not going to have
something that just surprises the world
and you just make a huge deal that that
does happen but it doesn't happen to
everybody so
you know to be a blue collar filmmaker
and to be able to continue to do what
you do you have to to keep that in mind
um
i think you have to you realize that the
average deal is going to probably be
five to seven years that a territory is
going to come in
um are they going to pay 50 upon
execution of the deal are they going to
pay 50 upon delivery that's that's an
attractive way to go where they're going
to put up 50 upon signing
and then you know when you get to your
sales agent you're going to have a
quality you know qc version master that
they'll be able to deliver and all that
went through so you're not doing it
territory for territory once you have
that qc that's passed that show that's
past muster everybody's going to get
that when they get it
but i know two deals are the same you
know you can have one film where all of
a sudden you know the uk or germany is
paying
45-50 grand and then china is going to
pay 10 or 15 and then you can have
another film
where china's paying
35 40
and then you know the uk is paying 10 or
15. i mean it's it's never consistent
again it goes back to genre big with
genre also cast does it fit what they're
looking to do
um
but you know again
as i talk about in the book there's
there's 54 territories on the globe 172
buying countries right so
you have to realize that some of those
territories are gonna pay crap they're
gonna pay five seven ten grand but you
do have some that are gonna pay very
well
and you you have to break that down when
again when you budget a film i always
think with the end in mind if i make
this film and it's this genre and this
is the cast i'm realistically going to
get
globally what is that actor or these few
actors do in a film of this nature or of
this genre
and really break it down don't look at
ask and take sheets that every sales
agent is going to give you that tells
you they're going to ask for 150 grand
in germany and accept 75 grand that's
never going to happen that's those are
just numbers that they just provide
these ask and take sheets they're the
same ones it doesn't matter whose names
on them they all look alike
don't go by that
and sales agents will provide that for
you to get your business it's called an
ask take sheet
and it's um you know it's very rare
those numbers even come close
just find a walk and talk
a walk and talk drama
uh you know i i don't even know if it's
a real term i've i've heard it used by
sales agents and distributors talking
about you know films that
you can look at something like harry met
sally could be considered like you know
a walk and talk romantic comedy it's
it's not an action film it's not set in
outer space or with green screens it's
it's practical
um i think like you've got males a great
example of a walk and talk you know it's
it still has the romantic comedy
elements
um when we did mistrust with jane
seymour that was that was also walk and
talk drama okay that's the first time
i'd ever heard the term and i started
hearing it more and more i think i think
terms come and go
you know but that's that's my
understanding of what it is i'm probably
wrong i'm sure your viewers will tell me
how wrong i am but that's that's what i
understand it to be
and are those the hardest to sell
they can be tough
depending on the cast
so if if you're not selling action
you're not selling suspense
you know something that's getting the
heart going and it's it's a drama you
know i you really need to push the cast
um you know because you're asking people
to
you know you think about you think about
the independent films that have done
well and who's cast in them and what
they are and
you know whenever whenever we're teeing
up to do a drama and we don't really do
those much anymore but when you tee out
for them it's about cast it's really
just about cast
you know that's important we do an
action film it's more about okay we've
got an action film coming let's think
about some of these actors who are going
to do well globally in different
territories
and why
you know and action cells
suspense you know thrillers those things
do well
you know everybody they translate into
every language
and something else to keep in mind sorry
all no no go ahead you know they
translate and they translate in
different languages but something also
think about is when when you do drama
you know it's something i i talk to
people a lot about especially now coming
out of where we've been for the last
year and a half do we do we really want
to deal with too much drama anymore i
mean i don't know and the question is is
does the world want what we consider
drama do they want our drama do they
want our
problems you know drama comes with a lot
of
emotion it comes with a lot of feelings
it comes with a lot of baggage it
doesn't know it doesn't mean it's bad
it's you know it's what makes some of
the great dramas but
i always i always try to to remind
people think about what we're coming out
of people have been living in their
you know their homes or their their
dwellings for a urine change and they
haven't been able to socialize much they
haven't gone on vacation take them
places they want to go let them
experience exciting things
you know that never gets old people want
to see beautiful things and and get
excited and i think you can incorporate
that in drama but don't forget you know
always think about where the world is
right now
and
what if if you were totally detached
from this film completely detach
yourself from it think about the year
you've just had do you want to sit and
watch somebody else go through some
drama right now
totally for the drama genre i love it
but i just think you have to be
sensitive to the global climate when
you're making certain product
but the queen's gambit worked that was
gonna work that was just awesome would
you say that was some action or no not
not really
but it had sensuality it had it had some
eroticism to it it had
mystique it had edgier seat moments
because of some of the the things that
she went through you know with her
addictions and dealing with her family
drama and and her background i mean i
think if i remember correctly i saw it
you know not a long time ago now but i
think she was a was she adopted or
she was in an orphanage orphanage yeah
yeah i mean there's there's a lot of
baggage there but they were able to
educate an audience and you know what i
thought the coolest thing was and nobody
was surprised is when they talked about
the number of chess
chess games that sold after the success
of that film and they couldn't keep
chess in stock you know this became the
hottest thing in the world everybody's
buying chess
and i i always so obviously they did
something besides being just such a
brilliant execution of such a great show
is it it got people excited about a new
hobby and and that's a cool thing too
you know
and we could root for the underdog even
though she was kind of three steps ahead
of most of the people oh she was but she
was yeah but in watching the chess games
and and the looks on the little the
little tells and the micro expressions
and things and and wondering was this
going to be the one that was going to
take her down yeah you know that's right
and all of the
um you see pop and circumstance that was
around certain the the notorious players
and then sure this
she's going to come in you know so
it was great i liked i liked the janitor
that taught her how to play
benny he needs a spin-off he sure does
yeah yeah
yeah i wasn't sure where we were going
with him at first i wasn't either i was
like ah it's a little creepy and then i
realized oh okay okay he's a good guy i
know exactly but
yeah it had that intrigue but no i think
there's nothing wrong with drama but i
think during the drama you have to have
those those moments to breathe and and
experience new things you know as a
filmmaker we've talked about it before
filmmaker's job is to bring an audience
to some place they've never been never
knew existed is always afraid to have
gone to
or always you know wanted to go
and i think in drama you can still do
that even with some of the experiences
or adventure that maybe a romance let's
say it's a
a romantic it's not a comedy but it's a
romantic drama you know there's drama
and you know maybe somebody's a widow or
somebody is cheating on a spouse and
they're going through this journey of a
new relationship and that's that's when
things almond king did very well if you
watch like nine and a half weeks what
made that in its time was
was what that relationship did between
the incredible
sex scenes
the thrill and the exuberation of that
relationship and where it took its
viewers and it's time and i think that's
important to do
sure and there was romance in the
queen's gambit there was that's right
that's right yes
but there was also excitement and the
way uh and then i'll just close it there
but just the a lot of the shots were i'm
not sure what the exact terminology is
but they're like these up shots of of
them following her upstairs and getting
like this wide view of her sort of
walking into a room
but but also in your right and what was
really cool about it is they took us
places we've never been and her journey
when she became a professional chess
player the places around the world she
went and some of these incredible rooms
and these halls and these hotels and
we got to experience that especially
during kovid when we were all stuck at
home
is when most of us saw that you know and
even shit's creek you talk about a show
that exploded during the pandemic i mean
everybody was talking about that show
early on in the pandemic and and you
know here was just this great concept of
this this very wealthy family that had
everything stripped from them that had
to go to this small town but
what what fun and that's circumstantial
comedy that i think translates a lot
better than slapstick comedy because
people can get that from all walks of
life every language that'll translate
you know so i think you just have to be
smart and picking your content just you
have to again we talk about how us
artists are so myopic and selfish you
just have to step back and say okay if
you were detached from this
realistically how do you think this
would be accepted take your passion take
your investment of your time or your
your talent away from this for just five
minutes really think about how this
would do on a global scale and why
how much money can filmmakers expect to
make from streaming services today
don't expect anything i i think every
deal is different every situation is
different um there are there are some
really cool
streaming services or platforms that are
popping up all the time that you know
tubey's a new one
um obviously you've got your netflix
your amazon your hulu
you know um i think i think netflix you
know if you make a deal with them they
acquire the project i think
i think people will be surprised for
what they actually acquire independent
films for and people need to realize
they pay that over i think two years
it's not just one big check
um and that's fine that's that's what
they do
you know there are some some aod
platforms that are that are doing
surprisingly well i i never say what
anybody should expect
um i i work with sales agents and
distributors all the time that are
working with films that have been dead
catalog collect dust in a closet haven't
seen a light a day in 15 20 years
they're throwing them on some of these
aod platforms and they're bringing in 5
to 20 grand a month
just on like dead titles
it and then you have stuff that costs a
lot more that are recent and slick and
they're not making a dime there's i
don't think there's
there's really a guarantee for anything
um
i you know i think that
um there are some really good streaming
platforms out there some you know
obviously the the more the merrier if
you can get different territories
different platforms you know they have
some platforms now that'll get your your
work out on you know you can make deals
with some distributors they'll get your
get your work out on 32 different
platforms you know every major cable
outlet
including xbox and playstation i mean
those are some really attractive things
but how well do they pay
um
you know i i don't want to give you a
number and say this is what you can
expect because it what you know we
always have to remember about this
business
is to hope for the best prepare for the
worst and expect the unexpected and it
goes back to learning something new
every day you know
there are some streaming platforms that
i've heard are just
oh my god you got to get with them
and
you see what the deal is and you just
say that's the last thing i want to do
and then there are some platforms that
you've never heard of that you just say
i i wouldn't be caught dead being
affiliated with this and then they say
well sit down here's what our mg is
we're going to give you a minimum
guarantee for one year and then after
the second year you have first right of
refusal if you're happy with that we're
going to pay you you know 40 afterward
you sit there and you go so wait you're
going to give an mg on a streaming deal
for that much money
huh okay and these things i mean i get
hit with these things every other day
where
there's the misconception of some of the
bigger ones
and then there's this i've never heard
of you before but you're willing to
guarantee it
i wish i had the answer for you but i i
think it's one of those things that
every film
every film with a cast from every
filmmaker is going to be treated
differently in that i just do i just do
i don't think there is a tried and true
number yet
there's too many new platforms popping
up
they're everywhere