WE
WE ASK
WE ASK AN
WE ASK AN AUTHOR WHO WROTE ABOUT --
--
-- IF
-- IF THE
-- IF THE DISCOURSE CAN GET BETTER.
NEW AT SIX...
AS THE RACE FOR 20-24 HEATS UP
-- SO HAS POLITICAL DISCONTENT.
AND IT
-- SO HAS POLITICAL DISCONTENT. AND IT'S BEEN INCREASING SINCE
THE FINANCIAL CRISIS IN 2008.
EARLIER WE SPOKE WITH CLEMSON
POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR AND
AUTHOR -- MATTHEW RHODES-PURDY
ON DISCONTENT IN THE U-S.
AND HOW THINGS CAN HOPEFULLY GET
BETTER.
BETTER.
BETTER. All right, Matt, thank you again
so much for joining us to go
ahead and jump right into it.
2024, South Carolina right in
the middle of it in the first
nation primary for Democrats are
the early ones first in the
South for Republicans? What are
you seeing as an author of the
book, the agent is discontented
in politics for years, for the
better part of a decade, at
least. And so when you
better part of a decade, at least. And so when you're
looking at what you see for
2020, for what seems to be,
I mean, it
2020, for what seems to be, I mean, it's early days, but
most of what we
I mean, it's early days, but most of what we're seeing now is
just continuation of the trends
we
just continuation of the trends we've seen since 2008. With
increasing polarization,
increasing polarization, increasing bad feelings across
the aisle, increasing distrust
and dislike between Democrats
and Republicans at all levels,
both the elite level and the
base level, and not a lot of
successful attempts to try and
lower the temperature. There are
definitely been attempts by
political leaders and media
figures. But if anything, seems
anything, seems things just seem
to keep heating up.
And so what do you think it
would take to get to that point
where we can kind of bring it
back to nose because, you know,
we see that in a candidate like
Senator Tim Scott, where he
we see that in a candidate like Senator Tim Scott, where he's
trying to stay as positive as
possible, he
trying to stay as positive as possible, he'll kind of go off
to the left little bit, but he
possible, he'll kind of go off to the left little bit, but he's
saying that he, you know, he
wants to be the uplifting
candidate, and the voice of
positivity. So how do we kind of
have more of that, because we
positivity. So how do we kind of have more of that, because we're
seeing it play out with the
former president and the current
president, they keep kind of
going back and forth.
I mean, that would certainly
help if the elites would take
with sin cues to their followers
that they should calm down. You
know, I remember a moment from
the debates in 2008, when John
McCain was presented with
somebody who was saying Obama
was a Muslim, and he came up and
said, No, he
was a Muslim, and he came up and said, No, he's not, he
was a Muslim, and he came up and said, No, he's not, he's a good
man, he
said, No, he's not, he's a good man, he's honorable. You know,
if we had a little bit more of
that, across the aisle, that
if we had a little bit more of that, across the aisle, that's
very difficult, given how far
the party is aparcar in terms of
their ideologies, and their
policy preferences. I think one
of them in the immediate term, a
lot of it is just people need to
be more careful with their
rhetoric, to tone things down a
bit, think before you use, you
know, very aggressive or very
violent language. But I think in
the long term, a lot of this
polarization is the product of
limitations of democracy here in
the United States, we have a
government that
the United States, we have a government that's not terribly
responsive, it
government that's not terribly responsive, it's hard to change
policy. So when you have, you
know, big momentous events like
2008, or COVID, it
know, big momentous events like 2008, or COVID, it's hard for
elections to sort of settle
those controversies really
clearly, you know, a lot of
districts are safe. Something
like 80 to 90% of legislators,
incumbents are going to be
reelected every time. And that
just makes it hard for people to
hold their leaders accountable.
So long term, I think, and we
write about this in the book, we
need pro democratic reform, that
makes government a bit more
responsive to people and gives
them more of a sense, they have
control of their lives.
Right. And you had mentioned to
those now, you talk about the
financial crisis there 2008,
your book, The Age of
discontent, it really looks at
political discontent worldwide.
And you had an interesting
quote, an article that I saw, he
said, when people are bombarded
with political messages, which
are common during economic
turmoil, there is often cultural
discontent, right? What did you
mean by that, in the sense where
that that cultural discontent,
and how are we seeing that play
out from 2008? Financial crisis
there to now?
Right, so that
there to now? Right, so that's sort of the
central puzzle of the book, too,
which is, you know, immediately
after these financial crises,
and this is, this is where,
what, this isn
and this is, this is where, what, this isn't just the US, we
see the rise of political
movements that are based on
these feelings, like, I don
movements that are based on these feelings, like, I don't
feel like I belong in my country
anymore. I don
feel like I belong in my country anymore. I don't feel like my
values are respected in this
country. And so that kind of got
us curious is why did these
movements pop up after financial
and you know, you
movements pop up after financial and you know, you've seen
similar things in history, like,
you know, immediately after the
Great Depression, or after World
War Two, you have similar sort
of extremist cultural conflict.
And so what we came up with was
that during economic crises,
people have sustained intense
emotional reactions to those
crises, particularly they
experience anxiety, and they
experience anger. And these
emotions. First of all, it
experience anger. And these emotions. First of all, it's not
always the case that you feel
sort of, you know, intensely
angry, and then it fades and
you
angry, and then it fades and you're not angry. But we know
from, you know, neuro psychology
and the study of the psychology
of emotions, as emotions are
continuously operating processes
that affect how you think and
how you act, most often without
you even knowing they exert
THE
THE UNITED IN THE UNITED STATES RIGHT SO MY QUESTION TO YOU IS A SOMEONE WHO HAS LOOKED BACK IF
YOU LOOK AHEAD DO YOU HAVE HOPE
FOR THAT TO HAPPEN AGAIN. I MEAN
I DO NOT NECESSARILY IN
IMMEDIATE SHORT TERM BECAUSE THE
THING IS PEOPLE WANT SOMEBODY TO
UNITE THE COUNTRY BUT WE HAVE A
VERY BIG DISCREPANCIES IN TERMS
OF WHAT POLICIES PEOPLE WANT AND
THE POLICIES PEOPLE WANT VERSUS
THE POLICIES THAT ARE ACTUALLY
CREATED SO THE HOPE I HAVE IS
MORE FOR YOU KNOW THIS COMING
GENERATION IF YOU LOOK AT
STUDIES OF. YOU KNOW PEOPLE WHO
ARE YOU KNOW WHAT MY STUDENTS
AND YOUNGER IF YOU LOOK AT THEM
THEY ARE MUCH LESS POLARIZED
THERE'S MUCH LESS DISTANCE
BETWEEN THEM ON POLICIES
ESPECIALLY ON SOME OF THESE
REALLY INTENSE CULTURAL ISSUES
THAT ARE DRUG DRIVING EVERYBODY
UP SO I THINK AS THEY BECOME A
LARGER SHARE OF THE ELECTORATE.
I THINK POLITICIANS ARE GONNA
HAVE TO RESPOND AND THINGS WILL
CHILL OUT JUST BECAUSE THERE
ISN'T SO MUCH EXTREME DISTANCE
BETWEEN THE ELECTORATE SO I HAVE
THAT HOPE AS IN TERMS OF. YOU
KNOW IS THEIR CANDIDATE NOW OR
IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS IT'S GONNA
BE AND- UNITE PEOPLE HONESTLY
ANSWER PROBABLY KNOW BECAUSE
THERE ARE JUST VERY REAL POLICY.
DIVIDES I THINK WE CAN HOPE FOR
NOW. IS PEOPLE WHO ARE SORT OF
KEEP IT AT THE POLICY LEVEL YOU
KNOW WE NEED TO CHANGE THIS OR
THAT POLICY AS OPPOSED TO THESE
PEOPLE ARE BAD AND WE NEED TO
ATTACK THEM AND HARM. I THINK.
THAT'S WHERE LEADS CAN COME IN
AND PLAY A POSITIVE ROLE RIGHT
NOW MORE ABOUT THE POLICY NOT
THE PERSONAL