Kwaku. I knew you were going to say something so I had to say something first.
Kwaku, I have a question for you. Yes Bruce. Do Mormons believe in
the cross? Why are you, why are you wearing a mask and talking like that, I
know it's you. Do Mormons believe in the cross Kwaku, tell me! Do they believe
in the cross, do they believe in the cross?
Yes. Mormons do believe in the cross? But...
actually there is no but. The question is then, why don't we, why don't our
churches have crosses on them? Yeah, our steeples don't have a cross. Why don't all the members
wear crosses? We don't parade the cross around everywhere. How can you believe in it if you don't
wear it everywhere? Well the simple reason is, and Gordon B Hinckley says
something about this, we believe that the symbol of Christ is his teachings. We
don't like to just give Christ one little symbol, right, especially not just
what he was murdered on. The symbol of our eternal life should not be the death of
the Savior. I've always been uncomfortable with that idea that the thing that
we use to remind ourselves is the most, one of those tragic events
in the history of the universe. And I mean that's honestly,
do you think when Jesus comes back he wants to see a bunch of crosses? I mean I
honestly think that's something to think about.
Why? I personally don't. He gave us the gift of eternal life and
they're going, "Yes! Eternal life!" But let's look at his death all the time. But even
more, in Mormon doctrine, you know the atonement wasn't just on the cross,
it was in the Garden of Gethsemane. And his suffering for our sin. The cross
was a very small part to the resurrection. If anything, if anything the
cross was just a means to an end. We should be celebrating the
resurrection if we're gonna be talking his death. He lives. The whole point of
the atonement, like if you're celebrating that he died, it's great. Christ did die
and we're not discounting that, we love that, we're very thankful for that, but if
he didn't rise again then it's like alright well, he died
in the cross, he was just a good prophet. But since he rose again, that means we
can also live again. He wasn't just martyr. He's our Savior and I think when
you when you subject Christ down to just the cross and just the cross, you're--
I think you're missing the mark. I think you're not emphasizing the fact
that Christ was resurrected. But I don't think that people that use the cross or
wear the cross intends to do that by any means. I don't think they're trying to
minimize the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and I don't think there's anything wrong
with it. I mean that's great that you have a symbol of your devotion to
Christianity. Mormons just aren't big on symbols I
mean we have we have symbols, we've got angel Moroni... We've got the CTR ring.
That's a good point, it's a huge culture thing. We have very few symbols and the cross is just one that
we don't-- I guess sometimes we use it. We sing about the
cross. It's true, it's in our hymns, we talk about it, there are paintings of the Savior
on the cross. We just don't-- yeah, there's this idea that because Christ said it is
finished on the cross then that's just the end of the Bible and like that's just
the end of all Christianity but it really isn't, it continues. In fact, some
of the most amazing stuff continues after, when Christ was resurrected.
So we're not minimizing the cross, we just, I think we understand its place.
FairMormon.org is a great website where they answer all sorts of questions about
Mormonism. A lot of great information there and one of the quotes that they
have on there, it says, "Latter-day Saints have no objection to the symbol of the
cross. True. Historically, the church's earliest members were not from
denominations or traditions who used the cross in their worship when they joined
the church. These traditions continued with the. Isolation in Utah meant that
the Saints were not much affected by the increased use of the cross by American
Protestants later in the century. So basically it was just never really a
thing for us. It's still not really thing for us. Like some early Mormons wore
the cross and like you'll find some Mormons but just... I have friends who
were Catholic and became Mormons and they still wear crosses because that was a
huge part of their belief system, culture. And that's not a bad thing.
Yeah, you do you. But there's also Mormons who don't wear CTR rings. I don't wear a
CTR ring, but it doesn't mean I'm not, you know, trying to choose the right. I guess for me, this is just my
personal opinion, I think for me I guess I personally don't like the symbol of
the cross to represent Christianity. I don't care if other people do because I can see
why you would use it but I personally don't like it.
I remember hearing someone talk about how you need to worship at the feet of
the Cross, this before I was LDS. And I just, I think a lot of times in
Christianity I do honestly think the cross is built up more than it is
supposed to be. It is built up a lot. I've even been to the Christian concerts when
everyone's got their hands up pointing to the cross, it's almost like, I
don't know, part of me it feels like this sort of like, almost like a
like an object worship sometimes and most Christians are smart and don't do
that, right? Most are like, yeah it's just there, it looks good. But there really is this like
strange almost object-idolatry with it as if the cross itself
is-- the cross itself is just a piece of wood. Jesus is what
makes it relevant. That's when Christians need to be careful not to go over to
mysticism. Yeah, I heard this a lot before I was LDS: "Put your faith in the
cross. Don't, just don't put your faith in-- it's an object. Put your faith
in the Savior. And that's interesting because even within the LDS Church I've
heard, and this was shocking to me, that, and hear me out on this, now we focus too
much on the atonement. And what they're trying to say there is, that the
atonement is not an entity in and of itself.
True, yeah. It's Christ. I think President Nelson said that. Yeah, and it's Christ who gives value to the
atonement, it's Christ who effected the atonement, it all leads back to Christ.
People throw the word atonement around as if it were and object-
but it's Christ. And in the same sense maybe we sometimes can put too
much emphasis on the cross when, like you mentioned, we really need to be putting
that emphasis on Christ. So I appreciate that within Mormonism that we, our lack
of having crosses around in our churches refocuses us on the person that was on
it. And I think the moral of the story should be- like anything that points you to
Christ is awesome. Yeah. As long as it's pointing to Christ, right? You know, as
long as whatever that thing is, at the end of the day you're worshiping the
Savior and giving all of your, you know, you're adoring him, you know, you're
kneeling and saying your prayers to him and that's the point and
anything that points you to him, that's great. Yeah. On the grand spectrum of
evils and terrible things and even just less good things in the world, I'm not
too worried about whether or not we have a cross around our neck. Yeah. I like our steeples! Okay,
well some people would say, "You guys have Moroni on top of your temple.
You don't have the cross, why would you have a symbol of this gentleman and not
the cross? And what do we say to that?
Well it comes from the scripture where they talk about, when Moroni, you know, saw
another angel fly- It's that. But we're not, Moroni doesn't take place of Jesus
or anything like that, it's just another thing pointing us towards
the Savior and the second coming. It's pointing towards the
second coming. His trumpet is telling us that the second coming is coming. If we didn't have an
Angel Moroni on top of our temples, it wouldn't affect the value of the temple
because some temples don't have the angel Moroni. There you go. Like my
favorite, the Oakland temple, doesn't have it. The Logan temple doesn't have it- does it have it?
The Manti temple doesn't and that's my favorite. That's where my family got married.
Oh another one. My family, I meant my parents, that's what I meant by my family.
My family wasn't married. So I was just looking it up and so I checked on your Nauvoo temple and
on the Nauvoo temple you guys have the
the pentagram but not the cross. So I'm a little confused as to why the pentagram
and nothing because the pentagram is a symbol of Satan and the cross is a
symbol of Christians so if you don't have the cross but you have the
pentagram aren't you just Satan worshippers? I
wrote an article about this! Oh really? I did, yeah. And I actually went to the
Church of Satan's website. I thought you were going to say you went to the church of Satan.
No, I went to the Church of Satan's website
which was awfully dismal and needs to be updated. Go figure. It had like a 2002 html. It's pretty old looking. I
was looking for information about the pentagram. But we can put a link,
we can put a link right here, yes, with all the information you should know about the pentagram.
The pentagram was a Christian symbol for most of its existence. Only in the late
19th century did it become an evil symbol- As are most deals with were good things at one point.
Yeah. It literally
just became like an evil thing in like, because of fiction books in the late
19th century but for most of Christian history it has the white and blue and
the red represent the blood of Christ, body and water and things like that so
it really is a Christian symbol and we have it on our temple. The traditional
Republican Party flag has a pentagram on it too, I mean, It's not just Satanists
and Mormon temples. Republicans do too! I knew it! Let me tell you what, George Bush!
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