- Should you hire a VP of sales,
or a VP of marketing
as your next executive hire?
How do you actually prioritize between the two?
And also if this is the first time
you're going about hiring VPs
into your executive team
for your SaaS business,
how do you go about the recruitment process?
And what do you actually avoid?
In this video,
I'm gonna walk you through my four principles,
based on everything that I've learned
in building SaaS businesses,
on how to actually recruit
for VP of sales and VP of marketing.
And I'm also gonna cover the one thing,
you absolutely must avoid
as you go through this process.
Intro
(upbeat music)
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to Unstoppable,
I'm TK.
On this channel,
I help SaaS founders like you,
navigate the path,
to the next stage of growth
with an unstoppable strategy.
On this channel,
I bring an episode
every Sunday, Wednesday and Friday.
So if you're new,
be sure to hit the subscribe button,
and that bell icon
so that you get notified,
whenever I drop an episode
with the TK energy,
and also if you're already part of our community,
if you're part of our unstoppable community
of SaaS founders, welcome back.
Really excited to have you.
Now, before I jump into today's video,
there's this one thing that's been coming up
almost on every other zoom call
that I'm on
with SaaS founders,
who are joining my go-to-market program.
They keep asking me
if this is a real thing,
or if it's a zoom background.
So just to,
just to kind of prove it,
this is a real bag,
it does move,
it just hasn't moved
because it's been COVID,
I haven't been traveling,
This is very real,
it's where I live.
It's Unstoppable headquarters.
So once and for all,
maybe we can put that to rest.
Now, in this video,
I'm gonna go into actually
recruiting a VP of sales,
and a VP of marketing,
knowing everything that I know
from the ToutApp journey,
and from the Marchetto journey.
In both cases,
I was part of the recruitment process
of actually recruiting
a high level executive leaders.
I'm gonna go into my four key principles.
If you're excited, dig in,
go and smash that like button,
and let's go into principle number one.
So principle number one is,
do you hire your VP of sales first?
Or do you hire a VP of marketing first?
I guess this is number zero,
I have three more after this.
Now it entirely depends on your sales model, all right.
So if you happen to have
a Talk to Sales button on your homepage,
then you should probably hire a VP of sales first,
if you have a Start Free Trial button,
then chances are,
you are more of a marketing driven organization.
You should start with your VP of marketing first.
This is the broad rule,
that I coach with
that I advise SaaS founders on.
That's kinda what I followed.
For us, we were very sales driven.
So we were obsessed
with getting in the right VP of sales,
and we actually never got around
to hiring a VP of marketing.
It was kind of the defect of VP of marketing,
even though we had a mini brand and everything.
I think it was a sacred cow that I didn't wanna let go of
over at ToutApp
So that's how I would follow.
Now, if you're trying to figure out
which button you should have,
I did an entire video,
talking about how to pick,
between these two
very different sales and marketing motions.
So you can check that out here. I'll also link to it below,
you don't have to go to I now.
I'll also link it below, so you can check it out
after this video.
So once you prioritize
which VP you need to hire first,
I recommend prioritizing one of these,
don't try to do both,
it's just not a good idea.
It's a full time job
to actually recruit VPs.
The next thing you really wanna think through,
is do you hire an up and comer VP,
a stretch VP if you will,
or a hot shot.
The up and comer, the stretch VP,
is someone that maybe has not had the VP role yet.
Maybe there are like a director or a senior director,
in a much larger organization,
and you're gonna go to them and say,
"Hey, look, I'll make you a VP.
It's part of a smaller org,
but you get to run the show,
you get to stretch your career,
and there's upside with equity."
That's kind of the pitch you give to them.
The alternative is to actually go after a hot shot.
The hot shot is a VP
that's been there, done that,
already demonstrated success,
and it's kind of like the golden child.
It's like, if you're hiring a CMO,
you wanna go hire a DG
who's at Privy now,
who was at Drift before,
he's the hot shot,
and you like, everyone wants him
coz he's one of the best of the best,
and so actually going after him, he would be the hot shot.
He's proven his track record,
he's done the job,
and if you can get him
then, you're, it's like a coop,
it's like, "Oh my God,
he's gonna move mountains for us." Right?
So you'll have to decide,
which direction you want to go.
Now I'm biased here,
and a lot of the CEOs,
and SaaS founders that I talked to
kinda are on the same camp as me.
You are much better off,
going after the person
who hasn't done the best work,
of their career yet,
and they're gonna do the best work
of their career at your company.
You're almost always,
gonna be better off going
for the up and comer stretch VP
versus the hot shot.
There's nothing wrong with hot shots.
It just so happens that,
the up and comer, the stretch VP
has something to prove.
They have that extra hunger,
they wanna make their mark,
they wanna be the next DG,
or the next Epic person,
and they will go to bat for you,
that level of hunger,
that level of energy,
that level of potential,
you're only gonna find
really on the up and comer VPs.
That's why I'm always a fan of networking
with senior directors and directors,
and really keeping an eye on who I think
is gonna be an up and comer.
Who's gonna be the person
that's gonna break through,
and do amazing things.
The best of their career's ahead of them,
and that's the person
you always wanna hire
in your early stage of SaaS business.
But you get to pick,
you will get to decide,
up and comer stretch VP,
versus the hot shot.
There are pros and cons to both,
Obviously there's much more risk
with the up and comer.
They may look like an up and comer,
and then could fizzle out,
or they could do amazing,
and the hot shot could like be,
do amazing things for you,
or they might just be out of gas.
They have done their best work,
and the best work is behind them.
So you'll have to decide
on who that person is,
and what their capabilities are.
But principal wise,
I like to get the up and comer,
because I'll bet on the underdog
all day long, okay.
So once you've decided on whether you wanna go after,
the up and comer strategy,
versus the hotshot strategy,
here's the biggest thing,
that I learned the hard way.
It was incredibly brutal lesson learned,
whether you hire a hotshot,
or up and comer VP,
there's risk on both sides,
but this is one where you just shouldn't do,
and I did this,
and it hurt me big time,
like I don't think
if we really truly recovered from that,
and the principle that I follow for this,
number two is,
don't hire someone too rich.
Don't hire someone too rich.
Now there's a double entendre here.
Don't hire someone
that has already made a ton of money,
and doesn't have fire anymore.
Don't hire someone,
that just isn't in it,
to work really hard,
because whether you hire the hot shot,
or the up and comer VP,
in an early stage company,
it's going be hard work,
it's gonna be a lot of hours,
it's gonna be a lot of stripe resources,
it's gonna require a lot of resourcefulness,
it's gonna require a lot,
and if they are too rich,
they're too rich,
then they just not gonna want to do that,
they just not gonna work that hard.
This happened to me.
I hired a VP back in the ToutApp times,
and he quit on me after three weeks,
literally the week we did
an entire exhaustive VP search,
and we were super excited.
We hit Marc Andreessen,
sent him an email saying:
"Hey, we're really excited
about you joining ToutApp,"
and all the full course treat, man,
and he came in,
stuck around for three weeks
and he's like,
"Hey, I don't wanna do this."
And he just quit,
and just didn't get another VP job.
He was too rich,
funny part is his name was Rich also,
which is why I keep smirking,
whenever I said,
don't hire someone too rich,
but that's the point.
The point isn't who he is,
the point is don't hire someone,
who just doesn't need to work anymore,
isn't willing to work hard anymore,
isn't in it to win it anymore,
it's just not worth it,
so watch out for that.
So one thing you wanna avoid,
when you're going after people,
that you're trying to bring
into an early stage startup,
it's a lot of work.
So, a lot of people,
that are used to corporate America, may not be able to cut,
a lot of people that have already made their money,
may not wanna do it,
and so you really wanna suss that out,
whether they have the work ethic required,
that's needed for an early stage startup. Okay.
So before I go to number,
the final one, number three,
which is really number four, let me pause here for a second.
If you can start to see,
how applying some of these principles,
will already help you increase the chances
of hiring the right person,
and also the excel in the growth of your startup,
let me just get a yes
in the comments below,
also smash that like button
for the YouTube algorithm,
if you haven't done so already,
also, I have a 5 Point Startup Growth Strategy Guide.
So you're likely watching this video,
because you're looking
to grow your SaaS business,
so be sure to download that guide,
I'll tell you more about it at the end of this episode,
but let's go to number three,
and the final principle,
once you started to figure out the strategy ,
and the type of person,
the role that you're hiring for,
you go to market leadership.
The next thing you really need to figure out,
is how are you gonna recruit them,
Now, there's essentially two ways.
The first way is the executive recruiter,
you can go hire an executive recruiter.
The second way is the Raj De Datta way.
I'll explain that in a second.
If you're gonna do this,
if you're gonna hire the VP,
you need to own it.
Don't casually look for a VP,
don't hope you'll find the VP,
You either are gonna hire a VP or not,
own it like a job,
recruitment is a full contact sport.
You have to own it,
and with VPs,
you can't just put it on indeed.com
and say, "We're hiring a VP."
And like, great candidates are gonna apply.
This is not how it's done,
it's a full contact sport,
that's what it is,
and so there's really two ways.
The first is,
you hire an executive recruiter,
an executive recruiter
costs roughly from 75 to a 100 K plus equity,
and you say, "look,"
and they'll work with you
to figure out exactly
the profile you're looking for,
and then they'll have a cast of characters,
they'll have you meet in rapid style.
It's almost like hiring a matchmaker,
for getting married.
I don't I don't know
if there're any matchmaking reference
for work here,
but that's kinda what it is.
So they will work it like a job,
with you there'll be a full time job,
and within like six to eight weeks,
you'll be able to hire an exec--,
the right person hopefully,
best case scenario.
The alternative,
if you're like,
you know what, a hundred K's a lot of money,
I don't wanna do that,
or don't have the resources for that,
but I still need to hire a VP.
I got you.
This is the best advice that I got.
This is when I had raised
my series A going into my B,
I was hiring my VP of sales,
my VP of customer success,
and I got introduced,
one of my investors was Founder Collective,
and I got introduced to this gentleman.
He's an awesome guy,
he's the CEO of BloomReach, Raj De Datta,
and he gave me some advice
that stuck with me forever.
What he said was like, hey man,
like, if you really wanna hire a great VP,
and you don't wanna mess around
with executive recruiters,
I think I'll go to executive recruiters,
like, they're great.
If you don't wanna do that,
he gave me an alternative strategy,
that like stuck with me forever,
and he basically said,
okay, what you wanna do,
is go find five VPs,
whether it's a VP of sales,
or a VP of marketing that you really respect.
So look into your customer base,
go find the really great VPs that are there,
go to them and then tell them like,
"Hey, I'm hiring a VP of marketing,
I really respect how strong you are,
so my guess is,
you know five people
that you would recommend,
five other people that are maybe up and comers,
are already at this level,
that I should go talk to.
Can you give me names?
Can you introduce me?"
and do that with five of your customers
or five other VPs that you know and respect,
and maybe you can't recruit,
you do that,
and then you will essentially end up
with 25 intros or lists of people
that are highly recommended
by people that you respect,
and that is a great way to start your search
around your VP.
I call it The Raj De Datta Play,
because it's just, it's so good,
and no one else has given me that advice,
and he gave it to me, and it was really meaningful to me.
So, that's the last principle,
own it like a job,
either do the executive recruiter,
or run The Raj Play
either way,
own it like a job,
and go find those incredible VPs.
So to recap, number one,
prioritize sales versus marketing.
If you have a Talk to Sales button,
probably VP of sales.
If you have a Star free Trial button,
probably a VP of marketing,
then figure out
whether you wanna go
for the up and comers,
or the hot shot.
Pros and cons to both,
do not hire someone too rich
double entendre there,
hate that guy,
and also pick
between the executive recruiter,
or the Raj Play,
both are really great plays.
But also, if you are thinking about hiring VPs,
before you go-to-market functions,
chances are you thinking about
how to actually grow your SaaS business.
This is why I put together
my 5 Point Startup Growth Strategy Guide,
in it, I go into the exact questions,
you need to be asking yourself,
so you can actually craft together
a one page strategy.
So you can actually build
a differentiated go-to-market machine.
This is it's an action pack,
it's completely free,
so follow the link below,
or just go to getunstoppable.com/strategy
to download that guide.
A lot more of my resources are in there,
a lot more of my principles are in there,
they're linked to some of the core videos.
That's all I have for you today,
hopefully you found this useful.
If you did,
please smash that like button
for the YouTube algorithm.
I drop a video like this
every Sunday, Wednesday and Friday.
So, be sure to hit the subscribe button,
and that bell icon.
In my future episodes,
we're starting to plan this out,
We're gonna be going into:
what to look for in a VP of marketing.
What to look for in a VP of sales.
when you're start--
When you're doing these hires.
So be sure to hit the subscribe button for that.
Also, if you have a friend
that would get value from this video,
a fellow SaaS founder,
or someone in your team,
be sure to share this video with them,
it would mean the world to us,
and lastly remember,
everyone needs a strategy for their life,
and their business,
but when you are with us,
yours is gonna be unstoppable.
I'm TK,
and I'll see you in the next episode.
(upbeat music)
The executive recruiter way.
This is really like, okay,
let me pause here. Like.