She successfully steered her country through the financial crisis and is known as a tough
reformer of Southeast Asia’s largest economy: Indonesian Finance Minister Sri Mulyani.
Forbes has repeatedly included her in the list of the most powerful women in the world.
An economist, a mother of three and a role model.
How did Sri Mulyani come to power in a largely conservative society?
How is she using her position to empower women in Indonesia?
And what role can men play in the fight for equality?
Let’s find out!
Minister Sri Mulyani, thank you for joining our series “Merkel’s Era: The Women of
Power”. You are a woman of power, as Indonesia’s first-ever female finance minister. How does
it feel to be a pioneer?
The challenge for a woman in any position especially if that position is the first time
in the history, that the women usually have more burdens. We call it a double or triple
burden to prove it that you were able to hold that position with competence, with the ability
to deliver the responsibility.
I think that is very typical for many women, usually the male counterpart would not be
asked that kind of question. It is considered as natural for them to hold the office. But
for women, you really have to prove it.
Isn't it frustrating sometimes for you? How did you manage to overcome these obstacles?
I was fully aware that this is going to happen because I come from my family background in
which my mother was also a pioneer. She was the first to take the PhD degree in education.
So, she always said, the world is not fair for a woman. As a woman, you have to really
to prove it, that you are smarter than others. I was prepared to face this kind of situation.
It's not frustrating. It's more like even the motivation to show that we deserve, and
we are able to do that.
During her first tenure, Mulyani tackled corruption and managed to reduce Indonesia’s public
debt. As a result of these reforms, by 2010 the country recorded its highest annual economic
growth since 1997. A success that hit the headlines.
In 2010, Sri Mulyani moved to the USA to work at the World Bank, as its Managing Director.
She used her platform at the international financial institution to promote gender equality.
Mulyani returned to Indonesia in 2016 for a second term as finance minister. She continues
to support women, believing that education is key in achieving gender equality.
When the parents have one opportunity then they will pick boys first to go to school
rather than the girls. And that is really the challenge. So, we try to use this budget,
especially in designing the social protection, providing equal opportunity with education
Girls across Indonesia, especially those living in rural areas throughout its many islands,
can benefit from this support. They repeatedly confront hurdles in their lives and have to
swim upstream.
Usually, girls they perform well academically. But then, in the higher education, there is
a problem of the dropout. That is still a problem in parts of Indonesia like the child
marriage, because especially in a rural area, when you are a late teenager, you are asked
why you're not married yet.
If they have an education high enough, they will be told that “Oh, you are scaring a
boy, because you are not in the position that the boy feels comfortable to have a woman
which is smarter than you are.”
So, there are the social norms, values. You have to perform according to the perception
of the other gender or the society which is restricting you. You really have to think
much deeper on the social construction, social values, sometimes cultural or even religious
in this case
You’ve maybe heard of the gender gap. The term describes disparities between men
and women in different areas – for example, the lack of equal opportunities in education
or labor market. Mulyani is convinced that closing the gender gap can help reduce poverty.
A lot of studies show that the gender gap is definitely not only costly personally for
a woman, but costly for the economy. If we can reduce the gap, potentially the economy
can have plus 12 trillion dollars which I think it's around 11 percent of the global
GDP. This is not only a problem in Indonesia, but a problem all over the world.
So, potentially, if you really can create an equal opportunity to be able to participate
within not only in domestic [labor], but also in the economy, – then it is a winning for
the family, for that woman, but also a winning for the society.
In Indonesia it’s still not common for women to work outside the home. Only around half
of all women are employed in paid jobs. The rate has been stalling nearly for two decades.
What’s holding women in Indonesia back?
Similar reasons like elsewhere! Once a woman has children, she is expected to do most of
the work of raising them. And too many mothers don’t really have another choice.
How was it for you to manage both raising children and having a successful career. How
do you manage it? It was hard. Certainly, it's hard. First,
I also have a husband just like my father, who is very supportive. He's not intimidated.
He does not feel inferior marrying a woman who is maybe perceived as strong.
My own experience, when I have my first daughter in the United States, and I had to finish
my dissertation, but we were running out of money, my husband and my baby, – at that
time it was my one-year-old-daughter, – she went back with my husband. And I lived alone
in the United States to finish my dissertation. So, we had like one year apart. That was not
an easy time. The juggling is the most difficult part. And you still also like any other human
being, you are not blessed with thirty-five hours a day. I mean, you are only half the
same as others 24 hours a day. I was lucky enough... I am lucky enough to have that.
It’s still difficult to change this mindset. That’s why she is encouraging men to take
parental leave — something quite new for Indonesia.
More importantly to educate is actually the male counterpart. I think, men and boys, they
need to know that when you talk about gender equality, it is not threatening their position,
their role.
I usually use this metaphor: If you are going to have shoes, you don't want the one is high-heeled,
and the other one is a flat shoe. You are not going to walk comfortably. You really
have to have the same level so that the society can actually walk and pursue our objective
or dreams together.
Indonesia is reportedly the second-most dangerous country for women in the Asia Pacific region.
One in three women has reportedly suffered gender-based violence in their lifetime.
Sexual violence, street harassment, trafficking, and domestic violence are widespread. In some
parts of the country there are high rates of child marriage too.
And there is still no law in the country protecting girls from Female Genital Mutilation, although
it is internationally recognized as a violation of human rights. Almost half of all women
in Indonesia have undergone the dangerous practice.
All these issues are taboo in society.
I'm sure that with the more education, information, and more influencers can provide understanding
on this area that could be addressed. All the activists and NGOs try to address this
area
An additional challenge is the growing religious conservatism in the country
Indonesia has the largest Muslim population in the world. Within the Muslim community,
traditionalists have made their voices heard and are expanding their influence. They use
social media to spread their patriarchal views.
I think as a Muslim myself and reading the Quran, I feel like they give it an equal opportunity
for men and women. But I also have to admit that some of the religious practices who try
to take this kind of version or an interpretation in a very strict and limited way, which is
then being used to restrain or constrain especially women in their role in society or even to
have an equal opportunity. There is quite an example that we see. And that's why it
is still quite a challenge for all of us.
I admire her specifically in terms of her leadership, the way1 she continues pushing
and pursuing a lot of policy which is important not only for Germany and the German people,
but also globally, for example, like climate change.
Do you think the next generation of women leaders might have it easier than you did?
I think for the next leaders it will not be easier because first, maybe we think that
it's going to be easier because the glass ceiling has been broken. But I think for the
next generation, they will be constantly compared with who break those glass [ceiling] initially.
And I mean, Angela Merkel is just a formidable leader. So, the bar is very high, because
they always like, okay, you're actually enjoying the benefits of those, then you should be
higher than she. And that is going to be a pressure for any woman leader that is following
Angela Merkel.
No matter where you are, what your position, always try to put the boundary. Even only
one inch. Because that is going to give more room for many of girls and women with you
or even after you.
A strong leader, who is using her powerful position to push boundaries for women’s
interests. Indonesia’s finance minister Sri Mulyani is aware of challenges girls and
women have to overcome in her conservative country. And she is convinced that gender
equality is easier to achieve with men as partners.
What is your take on this?
How can more men become allies and support women’s rights, for the benefit of all?
Let us know what you think! And make sure to watch all the other episodes of our series!