Radhika Jones, Ta-Nehisi Coates,
welcome to The Daily Social Distancing Show.
Thank you, Trevor.
Let us talk about something that is making news
everywhere online.
And I know you've sent me a special copy of it.
-It is Vanity Fair, and... -No, I don't have that.
Yeah. I don't... I don't think anybody has it.
You've got to be somebody to get this.
But, um, thank you very much.
I literally just got my hands on this copy now,
and you sent it to us.
But what makes this cover so powerful
is that that's Breonna Taylor on the cover of Vanity Fair.
Um, we also know that Ta-Nehisi Coates is part of this.
Let's start on your side, Radhika.
You've released a cover and an issue
that's really gonna be making some news.
What is the purpose of this issue?
Because I want to read this part to you here,
and it's really powerful, where you talk about, uh,
the "great fire."
What is it all about?
Yeah, I became editor of Vanity Fair
about two and a half years ago, and I... and I...
You know, in a way it's a...
it's a magazine that's about aspiration.
It's about power and personality.
And I think that aspiration can be inclusive.
It should be inconclusive.
So for this issue, you know, um,
2020 has been a year of historic import.
It was that in March when the pandemic reached,
um, American shores,
and it became it again in late May
when George Floyd was murdered in broad daylight,
and demonstrations and protests began,
and they weren't just happening in Minneapolis,
they were happening around the world.
And so we felt we wanted to capture the spirit of...
um, of these months that have...
that have revealed, you know, real problems
in the American system.
Um, if you didn't believe in systemic racism before now,
if you didn't believe that our health care needed reforming,
um, if you look around now, you probably do believe it.
And... and we wanted to, um,
draw on the most vibrant collection
of artists and... (audio drops out)
and writers that we could to kind of shed light
on this extended moment.
So that was the... that was the plan,
and who better to help us do that than Ta-Nehisi Coates,
who was the person I most wanted to hear from,
uh, at this time.
Let's talk a little bit about that.
Um, everybody wants to hear from you.
To come on board for a project like this
is no small undertaking, because you know that everybody
is waiting to see what you're gonna write,
how you're gonna write it, how you're going to...
tell a story that we already know
in a way that we don't know.
And what you've done that's really interesting in this issue
is you've talked about the life of Breonna Taylor
and what has happened to her through a lens
that many of us haven't seen it through before.
Talk us through, firstly, why you came on board
and, secondly, what you hope to have achieved
by telling the story the way you have.
First of all, um, you... As you've just...
What you just articulated, like, th-that is the problem.
I mean, it may sound somewhat ghoulish to say this,
but th-that is the actual creative problem
in the sense of how do you tell somebody
a story that they already know,
uh, i-in some sort of different way?
"A," I think, you know, what-what it allowed...
what it allowed me to do in partnership with Radhika
was assemble all of these artists and writers.
Um, and, so, to bring
all of these sort of different perspectives,
you know, o-onto the issue, I guarantee that we got,
you know, something a-a little different.
Um, and then, you know,
I just fell back on my old journalism bones,
which is, you know, um, don't sit on your-your butt
-and try to, you know, come up with something. -Right.
-Go-go see something. -Right.
You know, so I went down to Louisville
and spent a few days down there, and while I was there,
I had the, you know, the-the distinct honor
of interviewing, uh, Tamika Palmer, Breonna's mother.
And the first part of the story
where she talks about, uh, uh,
finding out what happened to Breonna
and how agonizing it was...
Um, she told me that story in the first interview,
and I thought at that moment,
"There really is nothing that I am going to say
"that is going to be more eloquent,
"that is going to be more expressive,
"that's going to be more illumin-illuminating
"or enlightening, um,
"than the mother of this woman who just got killed.
"And really, what I need to do
"is find some way to hand her the mic
"and, you know what I mean, be a...
"be more of a vessel to let her talk
"than thinking that somehow I'm going to have
"some sort of interpretive analysis,
you know, that's gonna be superior to that."
Th-There's something to be said about how much Black art
you've showcased in the magazine, as well.
You know, I don't want people to look at this magazine
and think that this is only a story of pain.
In a... in a strange way and in a paradoxical way,
it's also a story of triumph.
It's a story of-of beauty.
It's a story of, um, of a journey.
It does take you through
the complex paradigm of blackness.
Why was that important?
I mean, I-I think, um...
we wanted a whole product.
My favorite part, um,
in terms of what I was directly involved in
is listening to Breonna Taylor's mother, uh, Tamika,
talk about how she ended up in a motorcycle club
and how she then went and taught her daughter
how to ride, you know, motorcycles.
Because if you just, say, focus on what the police did
or what happened to this person, you actually become
a participant in the dehumanization.
Um, it is very, very, very important
that people be reminded
that there was an actual life that was taken.
-Right. -Um, the cops didn't kick in Breonna Taylor's door
and shoot a slogan.
They didn't shoot a piece of legislation.
Uh, they shot a human being,
you know, with a mother and a little sister
and a, you know, a man that she, you know,
had been with for-for some time,
you know, with-with relations in the community.
They shot a person.
And, so, if you're gonna have actual people,
you know, you-you really do need that-that range.
You know what I mean? And, so, that was within that piece,
but I think across the magazine,
um, it was very, very effective.
We asked, um, Ava DuVernay,
the great director,
to interview Dr. Angela Davis for the issue.
Dr. Davis said something that really has stuck with me.
She says that art is the thing
that makes you feel
what you might not yet fully understand,
and we thought in that... in that vein
when we thought about photographing actors
alongside activists and directors like Ava,
um, and writers
like Isabel Wilkerson and Colson Whitehead.
You know, people who have been
moving the needle on the culture for a long time.
And-and their work is so important,
and it does lay the ground for change.
And, so, we wanted... You know,
that is something to celebrate, to answer your question.
And-and we didn't want to overlook that,
um, in-in putting the whole issue together.
What do you hope people take away from this issue?
Well, first of all,
I hope they will keep it and-and sit with it,
because it's-it's not this month and gone.
Um, as you said, Trevor, these stories aren't going away.
And we created it that way so that...
so that it could feel like a keepsake.
I want people to feel provoked
by some of the arguments in this issue.
I want them to feel challenged.
Um, I want them to...
to feel like maybe it's time to reexamine
some old positions or some old prejudices
and-and think about them and consider them.
Um, and... Because that's what we've been doing,
and that-that really is, I think,
the-the goal of all this writing and all of this art,
is to make people think.
Radhika, Ta-Nehisi,
thank you so much for joining me on the show again,
and congratulations on creating what, as you said,
I hope is a keepsake for many people,
uh, for a long time to come.
-Thank you so much. -Thank you, guys. Thank y'all.