Ma’am, do you think that we’re working out here for money?
Do you think that we’re going to take your money?
I don’t know how much you bought, but just stop.
You’re about to be scammed.
$2,000.
Then he took my $17,000 out of my account.
Scams are still running rampant across the country.
Why are you crying?
Sir, everything will be OK.
I’m going to help you out
how you need to send this money.
You’re telling me you want me to enter my bank information?
I disrupt multimillion-dollar scams.
And she lost her life savings to an elaborate internet scam.
I can see their webcams or CCTV,
and I can actually look these people in the eye
as they're scamming people.
But trust me, the way you are speaking to me,
no one in my entire life has spoken to me like this.
The scammers want to steal money,
and they want to steal all of your money.
So I’m a little nervous.
It’s almost everything I have.
So I’ve managed to close down scam call centers.
I’ve persuaded the police to raid them.
I’m Jim Browning.
I’m one of the world’s best-known scam baiters.
[Super_Users]
[I Scam Scammers]
Scam baiting is the art of taking scammers off their scripts.
And what I do is turn the tables on those scammers.
How can you define that I’m a scammer?
Well, you’ve been lying to me the whole time.
So I reverse the scam.
That is bound to rattle a few people.
This is Chris Young, sir.
I’m a Windows-certified technician.
I try and keep my identity reasonably secret
because no matter what way you look at this,
you’re disrupting criminal organizations.
This is Julia calling you from Microsoft.
There's certainly thousands of people that I've saved.
I would reckon there's well over $1,000,000 that has been saved.
One woman in New York ...
Just hold the line, OK?
OK.
she had actually told the scammers
just how much was in her bank account.
—Do I have to tell you? —Yes, because ...
we will make sure that you have this amount of money
and you don’t lose one single penny out of this.
Nobody can take it.
OK, at the moment ...
$1,874,000.
How much is it?
$1 million ...
$1.8 million almost.
But I was able to call her bank
to make sure that the bank staff
were aware that she was being scammed.
Unbelievably, some people,
even though I speak to them directly and say,
“Look, you’re being scammed,”
they will trust the scammer more than me.
I called up one victim.
I don’t know what you told my bank.
I’d noticed a file on a scammer’s computer,
which was a wire transfer to Thailand.
It was an international transfer that I needed to make.
Whatever it was is of no concern of yours.
She told me, “Look, this is none of your business.”
Scammers have found a new way
to try and get your personal information.
You are a prime target for the latest Amazon scam.
Only about a year ago—
it was in Canada—
these scammers were pretending to be Amazon.
Dear customer,
we have detected a suspicious activity on your Amazon account.
It just so happened that
the day before, they tried that scam on me,
and I happened to be able to reverse that scam.
So I had access to that PC.
So I could see and hear what was going on on that.
The scammer made it look as if they’d zeroed his bank account.
And unfortunately, the victim believed them.
And what they told him to do was go and buy gift cards.
Cashier: Do you know that’s a scam?
Victim: I know, but they already stole all my money out of my bank.
Victim: All ... everything I own.
Victim: So I have to do something to get the money back.
Cashier: So is it just $2,000?
Cashier: You know we can’t do a refund process for Google Pay?
Victim: Oh well ...
I knew what his mobile phone number was.
But, of course, he was on the call with the scammers,
so I couldn’t get through to him.
But thankfully, at just the right moment,
the cell phone coverage cut out.
—Hello. —Hello, Joe.
Please stop. Do not buy gift cards.
You’re about to be scammed.
Oh, I know that, but he’s already took my money out of my bank.
He hasn’t. He edited your screen when your computer was black.
Please, please stop.
I don’t know how much you’ve bought, but just stop, right now.
$2,000.
If I hadn't made that phone call,
he would definitely have lost all of that money.
Hi, ma’am, and very good day to you.
This is Olivia Roger,
and I’m calling from the security department of Commonwealth Bank.
I can only do this for a little while
because scammers, as you can imagine,
get a bit suspicious.
So I only really have a very limited opportunity to help.
Sometimes, I only get access for maybe one or two hours.
Sometimes it can be days or weeks.
And over that time, I try to find out
exactly who the people are that are doing the scams,
where they are,
and if I can get any more information about other victims,
I’ll try to pick that up.
And I pass it on to the right authorities
because there’s nothing more frustrating
than watching them scam victim after victim,
day after day.
Thank you for getting connected
to the cancellation department of Norton.
My name is Nick. How may I help you?
I deliberately don’t say exactly how I do it
because scammers then become aware of that.
I can’t see other computers
without them having scammed me first of all.
You just need to know how the scam works.
And when he's hung up the phone with me,
I can still listen in to calls.
Hey, why are you crying, man? You’re a very good man.
Why are you crying?
Victim: I suffer from depression.
No, no, no, sir. Everything will be OK.
Don’t worry. OK?
Now, promise me you won’t cry again. OK?
I only ever get a snapshot of what's going on.
If I can see one particular computer,
I can see just what's happening on that computer.
But if I happen to hit a computer which is owned by maybe a boss,
you can see much more interesting stuff going on.
This is Julia calling you from Microsoft.
The scam call centers are amazingly well organized.
I've even seen ones which have performance evaluations.
There's almost a language that goes around it.
They never use the word “scams.”
They use “processes.”
And the people that they steal money from, they’re not victims.
They’re “customers.”
Sadly, about 95% of them tend to be from India,
where it’s almost a safe haven for these scammers.
The very biggest scam call centers that employ hundreds,
the people at the top there
will literally make millions of dollars per year.
You’ve got to park your conscience at the door.
But for a lot of people, sadly, that’s OK.
The typical profile of a scammer
is someone usually who’s fairly young,
typically fresh out of college.
They deliberately target people who are looking for jobs
and a way of making quick money.
The people who work in scam call centers
earn the equivalent of a year’s salary
in just a day or two.
I’m monitoring an organization at the moment
where the scammers are literally
sleeping on the floor of the scam call center.
They will typically target people in the USA,
so they sleep during the Indian daytime.
Nothing ceases to amaze me these days.
Hello.
We are calling you to make you aware about your computer problem.
—OK? —OK.
There was one scam call center in Kolkata in India
which happened to have CCTV.
And because I could see their dialing system,
I could also listen in to each of the calls.
So obviously, the scammers gave fake names.
But I was able to piece together just by listening to calls
what the fake name was, what the real name was.
And I also engineered things
so that even though they were making outbound calls,
I could dial them directly and speak to them.
So they thought they were speaking to victims,
but in fact, they were always speaking to me.
Hi, sir. My name is Carolina Fernandez.
I’m calling you from the Microsoft.
Oh. Hi, Priya.
—Hi. —Who are you?!
—I’m a ghost. —Idiot!
Tell me my name. You know very well. I know that.
Oh, I know your name.
I know everybody’s name.
—You tell me the details of my name. —I know, you’re Priya.
I’m a ghost, you see.
Who is beside me right now?
Which side?
In my left-hand side.
I think that’s Mimi.
I had a bit of fun with that.
It’s not often you get an opportunity
to see scammers on their own CCTV
and at the same time actually do a little trick.
Thank you for calling the technical department.
You’re talking to Sam. How can I help you?
Anyone can be scammed.
I even fell for a scam myself last year,
where somebody from Google told me that I had duplicate IDs,
and I do happen to have two IDs.
I went as far as actually being convinced to delete my own channel,
and it took a while to recover that.
So although I didn’t fully lose the channel,
it was annoying to me, as you can imagine,
that somebody actually managed to scam me.
Anyone can be scammed.
The circumstances just has to be right.
If you’re just not on your A-game,
if you’re feeling a little bit off,
if something has just convinced you,
either by coincidence or anything else,
that the person on the phone may be legitimate,
then anyone can fall for a scam.