Film Courage: Do you believe characters drive plot? Zach Zerries, Screenwriter/Author:
Yes. Film Courage: Okay. I was going to say or is it the other way around? It sounds like
you're very. Zach: Yes it's imperative. They obviously go hand-in-hand but
if you don't have again that intriguing character that we're going to root for and we care about
then it just is going to fall apart for you in your story that's just again my opinion.
It's interesting because I feel like there have been you know some movies and shows made recently
and they they go for this anti-hero and again if done we were talking earlier one of my favorite
shows of all time is Californication and you have this anti-hero who, he's a rogue, he's this
charming rogue and he is so self-destructive and he just you know gets in his own way all the time
but he's got heart and he loves his daughter and he's in love with his estranged girlfriend and he
you know as as infuriating as he can be he still keeps us watching because again
we do want to see what he's going to do next because he's capable of anything
but that we really do care about him not just because he's hilarious he's funny and he's a
he's you know wizard with words he's a writer in the series but he is but he's just
you know there's something just that we we care about him at the end of it all
through those seven seasons and i feel like you know at times i lately i've watched some shows
and again it's just my opinions that i feel like i'm not you know really on the side of any i'm
not really rooting for anyone and i think i know the audience wants people to root for
so if you don't have that character developed in a way that we're gonna you're gonna really have
and again not all stories need the character needs an arc things do happen to them but i i feel like
the end of it all we do want to see something happen to our character
him or her that changes them and that we really even if they start at the place where they're you
know a loathsome character by the end we want to see them redeemed in some way i think that's just
our natural inclination you know as humans you know i think we do we do love a good um
uh you know in a way not you know a redemption story but seeing a character or or character
is redeemed um so yeah i feel like to just the most important thing you can do
is you know again as as i referenced earlier having those beats those beats are for your
character what are the changes to your character yes it obviously goes hand in hand with the plot
but how is your character being changed by this story and how are they subsequently changing the
story um i think every beat really does hinge on their decisions and what their what they're
choosing to do in in the story without a doubt you said earlier you really like to have the pacing
good and to really push the story along has it ever happened where someone's looked at your
script and said you know what the character is changing too soon slow it down or vice versa
sure i i i um yeah there's definitely that over the years where i've probably gotten that note um
i it it has happened i don't recall on which particular script but it has happened for sure
um and i think it's easy you know especially in early drafts when you write an earlier draft
and you're wanting to get it down you know you've plotted it you have it set you have the story set
you know you have your turns um they're hard turns your your you know people looked at it they're
like this is a really good outline you know time to go right um where yeah where it sometimes
doesn't always translate to um you know you may start doing the character may start developing
a little too soon i think if that's the case then you kind of have to go back to the outline
and just you know that's why having good structure is important is going back to the outline and
using it as a reference saying okay here's where i need that character to change and etc
so yeah i i i do i do think it's um um you know it's um it's one of those things where yeah
you there are a lot of times that again earlier drafts where you may be having a character evolve
too soon rather than giving them her a you know letting it gestate a little bit more zack what
if that outline fails you what if you outline and then you get to the screenplay and then
it doesn't work great question um i i think that it's sort of you know one of those things where i
i'll say this it's important i i've been part of i've been part of many writers groups over
the years and i've recently been part of another one um for the last couple of years i feel like
if you have a good um you know if you have a writer's group in place that that can really
help you see certain things um fellow writers i should say that sometimes can can really help
and can steer your and and i always feel like those sessions that i have with them
provide invaluable feedback um i don't always use all of it uh but sometimes i walked away
with like that's a great idea um more to the point about whether an outline fails
and the script doesn't work um i i fortunately have especially in my later scripts have always
really worked the outline so that i i feel like it's pretty it it's it's pretty solid
um but i would say that again going back to what i referenced earlier if you feel that you've done
the outline you've done the due diligence on that and you've done the script and it's not working
i would say go back and re-examine i think you have to ask yourself why is this failing
like where where is it landing flat why is it not because there's a lot of different you know
areas where you could be coming up short i'm sure you know
um but i think it's it's fair to ask yourself okay where is this coming up short going you may not
have to throw it all out but going back to the outline and seeing okay maybe re-examining the
outline and then taking it and and reworking the script again based on that new outline um or again
it just may be one of those things where the story just isn't materializing and you again just maybe
need to put that away for now and move on to into another idea another story um but you know again
my my advice would be really again to really with the outline to really work it well to get your to
have your your your your key beats down and to get feedback i think it's really important to
also get feedback from other writers um and you know not and people give you a fair will give
you a fair you know fair hearing i don't i don't think you should why i don't think you should be
going to your mom to get hurt because your mom and or your dad or you know aunt sue and uncle
johnny are gonna love it no matter what they're they're there to champion you and root you on
i also don't think it's great to go to somebody who you may know is you know you want
you who's especially or unduly harsh i feel like you want people who can be fair and with
their constructive criticism and say okay this is good this is good but this doesn't work i i think
just you know i knew a few people in college and again we were just starting out who would just rip
rip you know his or her fellow students apart it was just i was like what's wrong with you
you know we're so i think you have to you have to encourage that you know you always have to
give encouragement but i think you could do it in a fair and critical way but i don't think
you have to rip the person apart personally so i think it's finding that good balance and finding
a good group of people whom you trust who will give you fair and critical feedback and you know
from there i think you know um then it's about determining the direction you want to go in do
you go back and rework it or do you just say you know what i'm going to shell this for now
and move on and i've known plenty of people who have done both and um uh again it's yes look i
i've started outlines and i've got an amount of people and i haven't written a word and this this
happened in the last few years i wrote a number of outlines and i gave them to people who i was um
i i value their opinion and they said you know what this character just isn't likable
or this plot just isn't this this just isn't working mostly had to do with the character
you know these characters are just highly unlikable and i don't see you really
you know making it um uh you know making this as a film that that anyone's you know really going
to get um you know again have any empathy for anyone that this this was one this is i'm just
this was one script in mind that that comes to mind um and another outline where it was just like
yeah but it's just certain elements just seem to be too much of a stretch so
i know for me it's like if that outline isn't working and i'm getting feedback and it's not
coming in and there are people who i trust who are really giving me i feel their a fair assessment
and i was like okay well i think i it maybe it's just better i move on and maybe later on i'll
come back to this or but this just doesn't seem to be hitting the the notes that i wanted to.
Questions For The Viewers:
Do you believe characters drive plot?