South Carolina Representative Ralph Norman tried to equate infanticide and abortion.
Republicans are pretty much trying to change the definition of abortion.
But when he did this, he got schooled by pro choice advocate Sarah Lopez.
Let's watch that.
>> Miss Shannon, do you agree with infanticide?
>> Well, I think you're using inflammatory language to basically describe a situation
that does not happen.
We don't have infanticide happening.
Doctors would not do that and neither would folks who have carried pregnancy.
>> Okay, would a healthy child, do you agree if a healthy child is born,
that is that woman's right to decide if it lives or dies?
>> What I think is based on your question,
you have a very low opinion of pregnant people.
Because if you think anybody would >> Answer the question
>> Excuse me,
>> Answer the question.
>> I'm answering it.
>> No, you're not. >> Do you want an answer or
do you want to keep talking over witnesses?
What I'm telling you is nobody would carry a pregnancy and
then decide on a monday because they are bored that they want to have an abortion.
>> Norman then turned to Fatima Goss Graves,
who was the National Women's Law Center Leader.
And the exchange went just about as well as that last one.
Let's watch that.
>> With all those words,
you do agree with basically murdering a child after they're born.
Miss Graves, could you answer that?
Would you just yes or no?
>> I have to say congressman how you just characterize
a Representative statement is extremely inflammatory and
the type of thing that is dangerous.
You guys have been talking today about the threats against crisis
pregnancy centers which I assume are serious and are terrible.
>> I've got a limited amount of time.
>> The threats that people wo have abortion have every single day
>> I'm not letting you reclaiming my time.
I'm assuming that you are for infantasy.
>> And it is because of this sort of inflammatory and
outrageous language, it is not okay.
I would also say that her language of health Madam Chair.
>> So republicans are really having a field day saying that folks on the left
are advocating for abortion after birth, which is infanticide, which is illegal.
And a lot of us have been wondering where the heck this is coming from.
There was a bill in California that republicans have been mischaracterizing
for the past few months, spreading misinformation about it on the Internet.
The bill is EB2223 and what the bill discusses is
ensuring that women are not prosecuted if they have a miscarriage or
if they have a stillbirth because this happened in two cases in California.
It's unfortunate that this bill is even necessary and
to be very clear about it, the bill states notwithstanding any other law,
a person shall not be subject to civil or criminal liability or penalty.
Or otherwise deprived of their rights based on their actions or omissions with
respect to their pregnancy or actual potential or alleged pregnancy outcome,
including miscarriage, still life or abortion or perinatal death.
Now, this bill is not legalizing infanticide.
The bill very clearly allows for
authorities to investigate the facts of a newborn child's death,
including whether the child was born living and when and how the child died.
So to equate abortion with infanticide is dangerous,
as these two advocates pointed out.
They've encountered a lot of violence because they give abortions to people, and
by telling the public, you're an elected official,
you're telling people precisely that if you're getting an abortion,
this could include killing a baby after it's already born.
It's really dangerous.
Jake What are your thoughts?
>> Yeah, you put a lot more politely than I would.
And so did the people testifying there in front of Congress.
But this story is not just about abortion.
There's something very important in this story as well.
I'm gonna get to that in a second.
But first, on the issue itself, killing a baby
after it is born has a word, it's called murder.
It's not allowed under any law under any circumstances.
The republicans are making that up 100% because they're goddamn liars, okay?
So it's not a thing, no one's ever allowed to do that.
They were never allowed to do that under any bill.
By the way you know what also prevents that, Pro, or at least used to prevent it.
Because they make it seem like you can get an abortion anytime you want,
all the way up to after the birth.
That's not what Pro says.
Pro says in the third trimester.
The state has a right to protect what is then a viable person.
And so that becomes an independent human being as opposed to a dependent one.
So, and it's there's different rights in different trimesters.
And in the beginning when it's a zygote, it doesn't have any rights, right?
Because it's a zygote and not an independent human being.
So they mischaracterized that forever and ever and ever, right?
So and why do they do that?
Is that Whoops!
My God, was that right?
That's so embarrassing.
We said infanticide, but we meant, you have rights in the 1st and 2nd trimester.
No, they're lying on purpose.
So, but the important part of this is, this is one of the very first times
that I've seen democrats testifying in front of Congress where they fought back.
So my whole life and democrats are told before they go testify
before Congress, no matter what lunatic republican says.
And almost all the republican congressmen are straight out of a mental institution.
They're all liars and lunatics, okay?
No matter what insane thing they say, you have to be super polite and deferential.
Yes sir, absolutely, sir.
Maybe sir, could be sir, I don't know sir, right?
They train them that way.
Do not ever ever fight back against republicans.
Why?
What? Hey, if the guy is a lunatic,
why don't you call him a lunatic?
If I was them, look, I love what they did.
That was great.
I love that they fought back and the dumb rules of establishment
democrats that have ruined this country are beginning to break.
The walls are cracking and people are going, no,
I'm just gonna answer the goddamn guy.
This guy's an idiot, right?
Yeah, but, and I love their answers, but I would have said,
congressman Norman, you appear to be an idiot.
There is no law in the country that says you can kill someone after they're born,
that has nothing to do with abortion.
How do I know?
Because they're already born abortion is when they're not born.
Are you really that stupid congressman Norman?
I would have asked.
And then people would have been out, he assaulted the congressman,
corum has been broken.
No, the corum was broken by that goddamn liar, who pretend that we're killing
children, that broke decorum, not me calling him a liar.
So I like that they were aggressive, do more, do more hit harder.
>> Of course that's true.
And these are attempts on the part of the GOP to take
this brute force approach to a wedge cultural issue and
this is their strategy and their game plan that has worked.
And so what Jenkin is saying is something very important.
If they're going to use brute force, you can't respond with decorum.
And you saw the aggressive nature of questioning from Norman, I mean,
that could have carried that media moment, but instead there was slap back.
I really believe that the messaging in this area
particularly is important because they're taking this issue,
you could say they've already won in many ways on this wedge issue.
I mean, it's grotesque that this country has gone in this direction.
And yet now you have to apply with utter aggression, the aggressiveness of someone
like Norman and the GOP that are trying to take the narrative with brute force.
>> Yeah, absolutely.
I think also what's going on here is they didn't accept the framing of the question.
It really reminds me of Pete buddha judges appearance on Fox news.
If someone's asking you a ridiculous line of questioning,
you don't have to accept that framing.
You can respond by clarifying that the framing is actually the issue here, so
that people aren't talking past each other,
which happens all the time when people testify on the floor of congress.
>> Yeah, and by the way, if establishment democrats tell you any rules, ignore them.
If they're on paper, burn them safely in a garbage can where they belong.
Okay, all those rules are stupid and they've destroyed the Democratic Party.
At every occasion when you run into a lying republican, you should fight back
super aggressively, politically and rhetorically, never physically, okay?
But don't ever let republicans lie and get away with it.
And that's all they ever do.
And if you hear a Republican talking, it is very likely that they're lying.
>> I would say one old school, I mean, independent, but
Bernie Sanders actually has always done this well.
He is a terrific communicator.
I mean, I know that he may have let down the progressives in some way, but
the one thing he does is he seizes the media moment and
he speaks in that across the fence, aggressive style you've got to fight.