Speaker 1 (00:00): Curious about what a
criminal prosecutor actually is and what they actually do well, then you're in luck because
that is exactly what we're diving into in today's video. Hey guys, if you're new to the channel,
I'm Angela Vorpahl of angelavorpahl.com and the Law School Network Facebook group. And I created
this video series to do a deep dive into different legal practice areas so that you could get a sense
for what it actually looks like to practice these types of law. And maybe what type of law
you might wanna practice one day. And speaking of the type of law, you may wanna practice one day,
be sure to check out the what type of law should I practice quiz. It will give you an idea for where
your natural abilities and strengths and interests lend themselves in the practice of law. So
be sure to check that out. And once you do come back and smash that like button so we can
dive into today's video. So to walk us through what a criminal prosecutor is and does is
Rachel Coll. Rachel is a former criminal prosecutor in the DC area, and she is now
a life coach for lawyers, coaching around things like relationship, money, making entrepreneurship
and career development. Rachel, thank you so much for being with us.
Speaker 2 (01:06): Hi, thank you so
much for having me. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:09): All right. So to go ahead and dive in, could
you give us sort of the ten second down and dirty version of what a criminal prosecutor is and does?
Speaker 2 (01:18): Sure. So I was a criminal prosecutor in the state
of Maryland, both in Montgomery county, which is just outside Washington, DC and Baltimore city.
So here each line assistant state's attorney is what we were called. We worked for the state's
attorney, was charged with bringing cases to court either by way of a grand jury indictment, or just
charging them by information or having police officers make arrests. And then we settle those
cases with unrepresented defendants or opposing counsel, or take them to trial. That was our job.
Speaker 1 (01:49): Okay. And what would the slightly
longer version of that be in terms of what you would normally do sort of week to week some
of the big projects you would work on and kind of how that, that flow works in that position?
Speaker 2 (02:00): Yeah, so the, the criminal
prosecutors end game objective, basically across the board is end up in felony cases,
right? That was what we were all sort of like scrapping it out over when we were in
district court doing misdemeanors. So again, with respect to Maryland, which is all I'm
really familiar with in my experience district court cases were misdemeanors handled before
a judge in big volumes. We would do 40 to 60 cases on a docket every day.
Possession of drugs, DUIs minor theft cases, minor assault cases, anything that would end
up classified as a misdemeanor in Maryland, but the big work, like the big guns in the state's
attorney's office ended up in felony con felony prosecution, teen. I was on the special victims
unit. Literally we were called SVU and I handled felony domestic violence and sex offense cases.
Speaker 2 (02:52): So my daily responsibilities
were trial of those cases. If one was ready to go to trial, which includes everything from
opening statements, examination of witnesses, closing argument,
and taking a verdict day to day when I wasn't in trial, it was charging cases. So taking
information from detectives or police officers to the grand jury, telling the grand jury what
happened, sometimes having witnesses come in to talk to the grand jury and then ultimately the
grand jury would deliver an indictment. Then we would handle that indictment,
investigate, meet with witnesses all the way down the line until they ended up ready for
plea or ready to go to court for trial. And of course a guilty plea is always offered in most,
almost every case. It was offered where a defendant had an opportunity to admit to one count
as opposed to all of the counts that they ended up convicted after trial. So it was our job to
work those out too, and take those before judges, if people wanted to plead guilty ahead of trial.
Speaker 1 (03:50): Amazing. That was
such a clear breakdown. I don't think I've ever heard. It explained that well before. That was
amazing. Yeah. And in terms of sort of the trial volume that you had when you were in misdemeanors
versus felonies, about how many trials would you say that you had per month or per year? And was
there any particular case that kind of stood out for you during your time as a prosecutor?
Speaker 2 (04:12): Yeah, so district court misdemeanor cases were
definitely a volume practice. So when I say that, I mean, very rarely did I end up on a docket that
had less than 35 cases. Almost always. It was some like 60 to 70, even 80 at times. So, but when you
think about those cases, they're really easy to prove. They're really minor. It's like someone has
drugs in their pocket, someone got in a fight and there were witnesses, right? It's like one or two
witness cases, tops. So almost always they would plead out meaning that the defendant would admit
to some guilt, if all the witnesses were present in court ready to go to trial. Otherwise they
would be dismissed. Oftentimes cases would get referred to drug treatment programs, things like
that, community service or first time offenders. So that was definitely a volume practice.
Speaker 2 (05:00): But when I say trials, like even if I would try
those cases in front of a judge we would sometimes do two or three a day. So multiply that by
four days in court per week, times 50 ish weeks a year, right? If you take vacation or whatever,
it's a lot of trials cut two felony cases, which are much more extensive and, and they seem simple,
like a rape case, for example, can seem like, okay, how much do you really need to prove
there? But there's a lot that goes into it, right? There's DNA, there's serology, there's nurses who
do physical examinations on the victim. You have to think about all the witnesses that are required
to piece those cases together. I would try those cases, Baltimore cities of very busy jurisdiction,
as you can probably imagine. So I tried probably 40 cases a year, which is a lot for felonies.
Speaker 2 (05:53): And yeah, one that really stands out to me
is a, and it was pretty standard in terms of the felony domestic violence, seriousness of certain
cases was a husband and wife in their sixties. Got in a big argument. Alcohol was involved. Husband
had a slug shotgun. I'm not like a gun person, but I'm pretty sure that's what it was called.
Single load, like big shot rifle, right? Takes the rifle, puts it up to his wife's face,
like right on her cheek and is telling her to do something, be quiet, stop yelling at him,
something to that effect. She pushes the rifle off of her own cheek. Thank goodness. And it
fires into the wall a size bigger than my arms could make in terms of the hole in the wall.
So I had the detectives take true to scale photographs of that hole,
bring them to court. She testified beautifully. He testified not so well. It ended up in a full
verdict. She conviction on all accounts up to attempted murder. And he went to jail,
which felt like the right thing. When you hold the rifle to your wife's face
Speaker 1 (07:04): Oh my God. That's so, that's so incredible.
I can't imagine the work that went into that and the emotion that went into that. And one of the
questions that I like to ask a lot is what is sort of the most fun part of the job and the worst part
of the job. And I can imagine as a prosecutor, there's probably very intense answers to both.
Speaker 2 (07:25): Yeah. So the fun part
of the job is if you're someone like me and I am an introvert, but I'm an extroverted introvert.
And I think I was just saying this to somebody today. You know, people think of introverts as
shy. It's actually just that introverts gather their energy from being alone. Whereas extroverts
gather their energy from being with other people which made public speaking and trial work actually
easy for me, cuz it's not a lot of engagement with other people they're just sitting there
and you're not relying on anybody else, but yourself and your witnesses from time to time,
which are a one-on-one conversation. So I loved the performance part of it. I was a double major
political science and theater in college. I danced all growing up. So I loved the like
animation and performative qualities of trial work. I loved the intensity.
Speaker 2 (08:14): I was always really interested
in police work and, and criminal work. And at the same time I did not wanna be a police officer. So
I loved that. I could feel close to the criminal justice system, even if I wasn't actually
boots on the ground in it. Although often when I was in the SBU section, we would go to crime
scenes and meet with detectives as things were unfolding. So I got to feel very close to that.
Obviously, I mean, when you're trying a rape case and you believe you're a victim, you're trying a
domestic violence case and you believe you're victim. By the way, we had a lot of discretion
in the cases that we charged. If I didn't feel good about a case, I did not charge it. So I
believed in all of my cases and it feels as much as, as good as you think it would to prosecute and
win and see somebody actually have justice served and, and leave your victim feeling like
nothing can erase what happened to them, but at least they feel like
somebody is on their side and that their peers and their community is on their side.
Speaker 2 (09:09): So that's a really amazing part of being a
prosecutor. It was why I wanted to do it so much. The downsides are what you would imagine as well,
right when you're really, I mean, you have to be emotionally invested in your case to convey the
passion that you want the jury to feel. And I think just to do the work and put in the hours,
it's a time consuming job. You don't get paid the big bucks that you do in big law.
So you're doing it because you believe in it and the downside to really doing something that
you believe in and loving it is that when it doesn't go the way you think it should
it can be really devastating and I've, I've lost cases. I thought I should have won. It
happens to the best prosecutors, juries are unreliable and unpredictable to say the least.
And so when that happens, it can be really heartbreaking, but nothing you can't handle.
Speaker 1 (09:59): Oh my gosh.
Fantastic. And I wanted to ask if you're open to it, about how much did you work, sort of
what would a normal work day or normal week work week look like? And if you'd be open to sharing it
a, a range of how much a criminal prosecutor can expect to make right out of law school.
Speaker 2 (10:17): Yeah. it is a big job. And again,
it's like, you care about it, that's why you're doing it. And so you wanna do it
well and you wanna get it right. And you wanna be diligent in the cases that you're handling. And,
and it's that moment, right. When you're like, I remember being God, I was, I clerked for a year
after law school. And then I got my first job as a prosecutor. So I was 25 and you're like, I'm
in charge. Like what , you know? So it's like this humbling moment where you're like, oh,
I better not screw this up. So yeah, like you put in the hours because you care. But I would
say like early on, it was a much bigger time commitment than it became because I was learning
I would say definitely 12 ish hour work days and some weekend days to be totally honest when
I first started and really that continued when I first started in felony too, because you're again,
sort of like going from being a senior to being freshman and it's all new.
Speaker 2 (11:16): So yeah, it's a, it's a big job. I think
it can end up being. And certainly there is no expectation culturally that it be a all day, every
day and on the weekends commitment. And it can be a nine to five and it can truly be a job where,
you know, you put your work in and then you leave for the day and then you're checked out. Like
that is the beauty of it. You don't work for your victims, you don't work for the police officers.
They're not your clients. So your client is the state or jurisdiction that you're working for. And
they don't the, the people of Maryland couldn't call me at all hours of the day and night. Right.
So so the hours really, I think, compress and expand when you're learning and growing. And
then when you get more of like veteran status they become less demanding as far as the salary.
Speaker 2 (12:04): Again, this is for Maryland.
It is not a job you take for the money. , I'll just be honest with you.
When I started out in Montgomery county, which is a very affluent jurisdiction outside of DC,
if you're not familiar it was actually a position that had been divided into two positions.
So my starting salary in 2008 was $40,000 a year. And it had no benefits. no retirement,
no health insurance, nothing. Eventually I think after a year they had enough resources
to make both of those positions full-time. And again, remember when we're talking about
2008 was a tough time economically. They then made it into a full-time position.
I was working full- even before it was, of course, but it became a 52 ish a year salary with benefits
with I think it was a pension at the time, whatever, all the things that come with it, health
insurance. And then when I left Baltimore city at my sort of like most senior status, I wanna say it
was like 78 ish which is a pretty good salary in Baltimore city, which is actually more affordable
jurisdiction than Montgomery county. So I hope that answers your question. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (13:19): Yeah, absolutely. Thank
you so much for sharing that with us. And one of the other questions I love to ask is,
was there anything you did in law school or right after law school that sort of got you
interested in becoming a criminal prosecutor or actually led to the job that you were able to get?
Speaker 2 (13:35): Yeah. So
in law school I took federal criminal prosecution or federal criminal something. It was taught by a
DOJ attorney and a federal defense attorney. And that was amazing. Any classes that you
can take in law school, your second and third year that are taught by actual practitioners,
I would say do it. And if it's what you're interested in all the better, but like I
would always try and find, I got this tip early on in law school, the classes that were taught by
people that were full time employed doing the work they were teaching so much better. I also
will give a shout out to Barbara Bergman, who was my evidence professor oh my God.
So long ago, 2005 or six. She was a visiting professor at Catholic university where I went
to law school and she represented Timothy McFee in the Oklahoma city bombing case.
Speaker 2 (14:24): And she was a phenomenal person to learn
from. And the funny story there is like, we were all bummed out that we couldn't get into this one,
like big shot professor's evidence course. And I was like, screw it. I'm just gonna
take the visiting professor, whatever best decision I ever made totally by accident.
And so those two classes I would say really changed my feelings about like, oh, this whole
litigation thing could be really fun. Then after law school, I took a trial practice class too.
I would definitely recommend doing that. That's how I met the judge that I ended up clerking for.
He was a visiting professor for the actual professor and judge who ran the course.
And he gave me feedback that I valued so highly in that one class that he visited,
where he pointed out that after every question I asked on direct examination, I said, okay.
Speaker 2 (15:10): And he's like, it's kind of distracting. I
was like, I have to work for you. This is amazing. So I did, and he was in a criminal rotation while
I was working for him after I graduated law school. And so seeing the prosecution and
the defense work involved in those cases, first hand as a judge's law clerk was really, really
valuable to me. And of course it helped me build a reputation with those lawyers. So when I applied,
they were all like pulling for me. But yeah, I mean, I would say even if you don't have as many
of those opportunities in the way that they worked out for me, just genuine interest and passion
about the work is like really easily conveyed to anybody that's making hiring decisions.
Speaker 1 (15:51): Oh my goodness. That's amazing. And
the last question I love to ask is if you had to rate this practice area on a scale of one to 10,
to someone who's considering becoming a criminal prosecutor, what would you rate it
Speaker 2 (16:02): Like a 17
Speaker 2 (16:06):
It's like if you're interested in criminal law, I don't know why you would do anything else because
you really do get that experience of just studying the facts of your cases, meeting with witnesses,
figuring out how they come across. I mean, it's, it's human understanding. It's human
genius. It's also legal genius and performance genius. It's like all these different parts that
come together that really show you, you know, what's out there and what's available in, in
the practice of law. And so if that's the passion point for you, I can't think of any other place
where you could get as much experience even like I have friends who work for the DOJ. I live in DC
and you know, they just don't get into court as often as those of us that worked on the state
level. So Maryland was like a county by county state's attorney's office is what it was called,
even though it was really like the county's divided it up. But you can also find other
jurisdictions where it's on a state level. Maryland does some state cases through the
attorney General's office, depending on how much it impacts multiple counties at a time.
So whatever operation exists in your state, I would just say, if you're interested in criminal
work, doing it on a state or county level is really the best way to get the most experience.
Speaker 1 (17:23): That's so incredible. Rachel,
thank you so much for sharing all of that with us. And if people wanna reach out to you and
learn more about what you're doing now, how can they get in contact with you? What's the best way
Speaker 2 (17:32): To buy? Yeah.
So I'm now not practicing law anymore. Although after this, I'm like, why am I not practicing
law? This is the best. So now I'm a full time life coach and I mostly coach lawyers and other
life coaches on relationships, professional decisions, money making, business development,
all the things. So I, my, I can be found at Rachel Coll coaching. My last name is spelled
C O L L. Rachelcollcoaching.com. You can also check me out on
LinkedIn at Rachel Coll R a C H E L C O L L. Or on Instagram at Rachel Elizabeth Coll.
Speaker 1 (18:07): Big thanks to Rachel for
walking us through what a criminal prosecutor is and what they do. If you guys have any questions,
drop them in the comment section below. And of course be sure to reach out to her.
All of her links will be in the description as well. All right,
guys, I hope that video was helpful. I hope you learned a lot and I will see you in the next one.