NORTHAMPTON ATTORNEY BILL NEWMAN, A LONG-TIME REPRESENT,
FOR THE AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES' UNION.
HE'S ALSO A RADIO HOST AND WRITER, RECENTLY A COLLECTION OF
HIS WORKS HAVE BEEN COMPILED AND PUBLISHED IN A BOOK TITLESSED,
WHEN THE WAR CAME HOME.
RECENTLY BILL NEWMAN VISITED US TO TALK ABOUT HIS BOOK AND MORE.
>> THE BOOK WAS REALLY A SOUND BOOK, AND I OWE THIS TO THE
EDITOR OF THE DAILY HAMPSHIRE GAZETTE, AND LARRY SAID TO ME
YEARS AGO, HE SAID WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE YOUR COLUMN BACK?
I HADN'T WRITTEN FOR TEN YEARS, AND I SAID MAYBE, AND I WENT
BACK AND READ THE COLUMNS THAT I HAD WRITTEN BETWEEN 10 AND 20
YEARS BEFORE, AND THE PURPOSE OF THAT WAS BECAUSE ENOUGH TIME HAD
GONE BY, AND I THOUGHT THAT I COULD TELL MYSELF, THAT REALLY
STUNK, OR I DIDN'T LIKE THAT, OR WHO, WHO EVER PUBLISHED THAT,
BUT I READ THESE, AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT I COULD HAVE WRITTEN
CLOSE TO HALF OF THEM YESTERDAY.
AND SO THE QUESTION FOR ME BECAME NOT WHAT WORKED, BUT WHY
IT CONTINUED TO WORK, AND THE QUESTION, IN ESSENCE, WHAT
LASTS?
AND WHAT I FOUNTAIN WAS THAT THOSE COLUMNS HAD, AS THEIR LOAD
STAR, THE ANTI-VIETNAM WAR, AND THE MOVEMENT AND THE ETHOS OF
THAT TIME, AND THERE WAS SOME OTHER MAGAZINE PIECES AND OTHER
PIECES THAT I HAD WRITTEN DURING THAT TIME, AND I LOOKED AT THIS,
AND I SAID, THERE IS A STORY HERE, AND THERE IS A BOOK THAT I
CAN PUT TOGETHER THAT HAS AN ARC, AND I KNOW THAT'S HOW IT
CAME ABOUT, AND I HOPE THAT'S WHAT COMES THROUGH IN THE BOOK.
>> WHEN THE WAR CAME HOME, YOU GO BACK TO THE SHOOTINGS, MAY OF
1970, WAS THE TIME WHEN THE VIETNAM WAR EXPANDED INTO
CAMBODIA, OR WE GOT WORD OF EXPANDING INTO CAMBODIA, AND
THERE WAS A NATIONAL STUDENT STRIKE.
THAT -- THOSE WERE SEMINAL EVENTS FOR YOU.
>> THEY WERE.
BECAUSE WE HAD SAID, YOU KNOW, THESE YOU, THESE WAR-MAKERS,
THEY CAN TURN THE WAR AT HOME AND TURN THE WEAPONS ON US AND
THEY CAN TURN THEM ON STUDENTS AND FRANKLY, I DIDN'T REALLY
BELIEVE THAT.
I THOUGHT IT WAS POSSIBLE, BUT THERE IT WAS, THREE HOURS UP THE
ROAD FROM WHERE I WAS IN COLLEGE AT ANTIOCH, AND THE NATIONAL
GUARD HAD OPENED FIRE ON PEACEFUL PROTESTERS, AND KILLED
FOUR STUDENTS, AND INJURED NINE OTHERS, AND THAT WAR, WHICH WE
SAID THEY COULD BRING HOME, HAD COME HOME.
THAT WAS A SEM -- A SEM GNOME EVENT FOR ME, BECAUSE IT
CHAINING MY PERSPECTIVE ABOUT WHAT MY GOVERNMENT MIGHT DO TO
THOSE WHO WOULD PROTEST AGAINST ITS POLICIES.
>> AND I THINK, IF I'M NOT READING TOO MUCH IN, YOU BEGIN
THE BOOK TALKING ABOUT 1968, AND YOU WERE WORKING AS A STUDENT
WITH THE COURT SYSTEM, AND IT WAS NEW YORK CITY, WHERE YOU
GREW UP, A COUPLE YEARS LATER, PENN STATE.
THIS FORMED AND DIRECTED YOU CAREER-WISE TO A GOOD DEGREE.
>> IT DID.
IT DID.
BECAUSE LOOK, I WAS A COLLEGE STUDENT, I HADN'T SEEP PEOPLE IN
CAGES.
I HAD NOT SEEN PEOPLE IN JAIL.
I HAD NOT SEEN HOW THE SYSTEM WORKED, AND THERE I WAS IN THE
MANHATTAN CRIMINAL COURTS SEEING HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE A DAY BEING
BROUGHT INTO THE SYSTEM.
AND THEN BROUGHT BACK INTO THE SYSTEM, AND WHERE THERE WAS NO
HOPE, EXCEPT FOR THIS LITTLE SLIVER OF SUNSHINE, WHICH WAS
THE MANHATTAN COURT EMPLOYMENT PROJECT.
THIS EXPERIMENTAL REHABILITATION DIVERSION PROGRAM.
>> YOU READ A COUPLE TIMES IN THE BOOK ABOUT YOUR OPPOSITION
TO THE DEATH PENALTY, AND THE QUESTION, YOU SAY THAT ALWAYS
COMES UP FOR A DEATH PENALTY DEFENDANT'S ATTORNEY, WILL YOU
GO TO THE EXECUTION?
THAT'S HEAVY STUFF.
>> WHEN I WAS DOING THE DEATH PENALTY CASE IN GEORGIA, IT WAS
THE QUESTION THAT FIRST CAME TO MY MIND, AND I WAS AFRAID TO ASK
IT OF THE ATTORNEY I WAS WORKING WITH, BRIAN STEVENSON, WHO HAS
WRITTEN THIS EXQUISITE BOOK THAT HAS GUN RAVE REVIEWS, AND HE WAS
A YOUNG ATTORNEY AT THE TIME, AND I ASKED HIM, AND I THOUGHT
IT MIGHT BE A PECULIAR QUESTION, AND HE SAID, NOT TO WORRY.
EVERY NORTHERN LAWYER WHO COMES DOWN HERE AND VOLUNTEERS TO WORK
ON DEATH CASES, ASKS THAT QUESTION.
AND THE QUESTION, ACTUALLY, HAS ITS OWN ANSWERING, WHICH IS
AFTER SPENDING YEARS WITH SOMEONE, TRYING TO SAVE THEIR
LIFE, SHOULD YOU FAIL AT THAT ENDEAVOR, OF COURSE YOU DON'T
HAVE TO GO, AND OF COURSE, YOU WOULD.
>> STILL THINKING ABOUT EXECUTION, THERE IS A MOVING
PIECE IN THE BOOK, ROBBIE'S PARENTS.
ROBBIE BEING ROBERT MIRAPOL, AND THEY WERE EXECUTED IN THE
1950s.
CONVICTED OF SPIES, FOUND GUILTY OF GIVING INFORMATION TO THE
SOVIETS, AND HELPED THE RUSSIANS DEVELOP THE ATOMIC BOMB.
YOU MAKE A STRONG CASE IN YOUR PIECE, ESPECIALLY FOR
MRS.
ROSENBERG, ETHEL ROSENBERG, THAT THEY -- THERE JUST WASN'T Y
EVIDENCE CONNECTING HER TO THE ALLEGED CRIMES OF HER HUSBAND,
AND CERTAINLY, NOT TO LEAD TO HER EXECUTION.
>> THE ROSENBERG CASE IS A MATTER OF GREAT HISTORICAL
SIGNIFICANCE, AND ROBBIE IS A FRIEND OF MINE, AND WHAT I TRIED
TO POINT OUT IN THAT PIECE, AMONG OTHER THINGS, BECAUSE IT'S
A PERSONAL PIECE, TALKING ABOUT ROBBIE, BUT THE GOVERNMENT
NEVER, ACTUALLY, CONVICTED OR ACTUALLY EVEN CHARGED THE
ROSENBERGS WITH THOSE CRIMES YOU JUST DESCRIBED, AS IS OFTEN
DESCRIBED.
THE GOVERNMENT CHARGED THEM WITH CONSPIRACY TO ENGAGE IN THOSE
CRIMES.
THEY APPROVED A SUBSTANTIVE CRIME.
THE CHARGE WAS CONSPIRACY.
AND WHAT THE HISTORICAL RECORDS SHOW IS THAT JULIUS ROSENBERG,
IN ALL PROBABLY, WAS A SPY FOR THE SOVIET UNION DURING WORLD
WAR II, BUT HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SECRETS OF THE ATOMIC
BOMB.
HE WAS INNOCENT OF THAT, AND ETHEL ROSENBERG HAD NOTHING TO
DO WITH ANY OF IT, AND YOU CAN TELL THIS FROM THE QUESTIONS
THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, AFTER THEY WERE CONVICTED.
HAD QUESTIONS, THEY WERE FACING EXECUTION, THE FIRST QUESTION TO
ETHEL WAS, DID YOU, ACTUALLY, KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT YOUR
HUSBAND WAS DOING?
THE GOVERNMENT KNEW THAT SHE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
IT WAS A FRAMEUP.
IT WAS -- IT IS AND REMAINS ONE OF THE REALLY SAD AND YOU, I
THINK, HORRIFIC MOMENTS IN AMERICAN HISTORY WHERE THE
GOVERNMENT TOOK POLITICAL UMBRAGE AT TWO PEOPLE, DIALEDDED
TO USE THEM AS AN EXAMPLE, AND MURDERED THEM.
KILLED THEM IN COLD BLOOD KNOWING THEY WERE INNOCENT.
AND BEYOND ALL DOUBT, KNOWING THAT ETHEL ROSENBERG WAS
COMPLETELY INNOCENT.
>> LET'S SHIFT GEARS.
LET'S TALK ABOUT SOMETHING IN THE NEWS THE LAST SIX, EIGHT
MONTHS, POLICE SHOOTINGS, WHITE POLICE SHOOTINGS OF YOUNG MEN,
OF COLOR.
BLACK MEN, LATINO MEN, AND WE TALKED, WHEN WE WERE PLANNING
THIS INTERVIEW, AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE NEED, YOU SEE, REALLY,
ACROSS THE COUNTRY, EVERY COMMUNITY IN THIS COUNTRY, AND
EVERY PLACE THERE IS A POLICE FORCE TO HAVE A SIGNIFICANT
EFFORT PUT INTO IMPROVING POLICE COMMUNITY RELATIONS.
YOU SAY THAT IT'S AN AREA THAT IS JUST SORELY LACKING IN YOUR
ESTIMATION?
>> I THINK THAT'S TRUE, AND I THINK THAT THE COMMUNITY
POLICING IS IMPORTANT.
AND I THINK THAT IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF A BANDAID, THOUGH.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT INSTITUTIONAL RACISM, AND POLICE
FORCES, OF COURSE, REFLECT THE SOCIETY AT LARGE, AND BECAUSE
THEY HAVE SUCH ENORMOUS POWER, I THINK THAT THE ISSUES OF POWER
AND POWERLESSNESSES ARE EXACERBATED IN THOSE
RELATIONSHIPS.
THERE NEEDS TO BE OVERSIGHT.
THERE NEEDS TO BE TRAINING.
THERE NEEDS TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY.
THERE NEEDS TO BE, IN A POLICE FORCE, PEOPLE WHO WILL SAY NO,
THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR IS INTOLERABLE.
WE DON'T BEAT UP PEOPLE OR SHOOT PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED TO BE
SHOT, AND WE DON'T NEED TO BE VIOLENT.
WE NEED TO HAVE A POLICE FORCE PROFESSIONAL.
AND I THINK THAT IN COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE UNITED STATES, THOSE
FUNDAMENTAL PRECIPES ARE LOST.
>> THE ONLY WAY -- THE BOOK IS FASCINATING, YOUR WORK IS
FASCINATING.
IT'S WHEN THE WAR CAME HOME, WE BARELY SCRATCHED THE SURFACE,
AND WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME WITH US.
>> I AM GRATEFUL YOU HAD ME.
THANKS SO VERY MUCH.