WERE GRILLING HIM, ASKING HIM IF HE WAS GOING TO ENJOY GOING TO
JAIL, CONSIDERING THE PRESIDENT
LIES EVERY DAY.
I WANT TO GET TO THE PARDON
QUESTION.
QUESTION. THERE’S A WHOLE ISSUE ABOUT
THAT.
THAT. >> WILLIE, TAKE IT AWAY.
>> KIRSTJEN NIELSEN APPEARED
BEFORE THE HOMELAND SECURITY
COMMITTEE AND MEMBERS OF
CONGRESS DID NOT HOLD BACK WHEN
IT COMES TO DONALD TRUMP AND HIS
ADMINISTRATION’S POLICIES,
ADMINISTRATION’S POLICIES, INCLUDING THE USE OF CAGES TO
HOLD DETAINED MIGRANT CHILDREN.
>> ARE WE STILL USING CAGES FOR
CHILDREN?
CHILDREN? >> SIR, WE DON’T USE CAGES FOR
CHILDREN.
CHILDREN. IN THE BORDER FACILITIES THAT
YOU’VE BEEN TO, THEY WERE NOT
MADE TO DETAIN CHILDREN.
AS THE CHILDREN ARE PROCESSED
THROUGH, THEY ARE IN SOME PARTS
OF THOSE FACILITIES.
>> MADAM, MADAM SECRETARY --
>> I’M BEING AS CLEAR AS I CAN,
SIR.
SIR. >> JUST YES OR NO, ARE WE STILL
PUTTING CHILDREN IN CAGES?
>> TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THEY NEVER
PURPOSELY PUT A CHILD IN A CAGE.
>> PURPOSEFULLY OR WHATEVER, ARE
WE PUTTING CHILDREN IN CAGES AS
OF TODAY?
OF TODAY? >> CHILDREN ARE PROCESSED AT THE
BORDER FACILITY STATIONS THAT
YOU’VE BEEN AT.
>> AND I’VE SEEN THE CAGES.
I JUST WANT YOU TO ADMIT THAT
THE CAGES EXIST.
>> SIR, THEY’RE NOT CAGES.
>> WHAT ARE THEY?
>> AREAS OF THE BORDER FACILITY
THAT ARE CARVED OUT FOR THE
SAFETY AND PROTECTION OF THOSE
WHO REMAIN THERE WHILE THEY’RE
BEING PROCESSED.
BEING PROCESSED. >> SO WHAT DID YOU DO?
I UNDERSTAND IT’S COMPLICATED,
WE HAVE A BIG BUREAUCRATIC
SYSTEM, WHEN YOU SAW THOSE
PICTURES OF BABIES IN CAGES,
WHAT DID YOU DO?
WHAT DID YOU DO?
DID
DID TO SCREAM BLOODY MURDER UP THE
CHAIN TO THE PRESIDENT, TO SAY I
CANNOT REPRESENT AN AGENCY THAT
IS FORCING ITS BORDER PATROL TO
DO THIS?
DO THIS? WHAT DID YOU DO?
>> I WENT TO THE BORDER, I SPOKE
TO THE MEN AND WOMEN THERE, I
LOOKED AT THE FACILITIES MYSELF,
I TALKED TO HHS AND VISITED
THEIR AND
THEIR AND THEN I WORKED WITH THE NORTHERN
TRIANGLE IN MEXICO TO STOP THE
PHENOMENON TO STABILIZE THOSE
AREAS SO THE CHILDREN AND
FAMILIES ARE NOT TRAVELING HERE.
>> WHEN YOU OFFICIALLY BEGAN
FAMILY SEPARATION IN SPRING
2018, WERE YOU AWARE OF RESEARCH
SHOWING IT CAUSES TRAUMA THAT
CAN DO IMMEDIATE AND LONG-TRMERM
DAMAGE TO CHILDREN’S HEALTH.
>> THE INFORMATION I WAS AWARE
OF WAS THAT THE TRAUMA WAS FOR
PART OF THE JOURNEY?
>> ARE YOU AWARE THE TRAUMATIC
EFFECTS DOESN’T GO AWAY, EVEN IF
CHILD IS REUNITED WITH THEIR
FAMILY.
FAMILY. >> NO.
>> NO. >> WERE AWARE OF RESEARCH PRIOR
TO INSTITUTING THE POLICY OF
FAMILY SEPARATION?
FAMILY SEPARATION? >> THERE IS NO POLICY OF FAMILY
SEPARATION.
SEPARATION. >> WILL THERE’STHERE’S A LOT TO
THROUGH.
THROUGH. IT WASSES POLICE ITALY SAID THE
ZERO TOLERANCE WAS A DETERRENT.
SECRETARY NIELSEN HAS A PROBLEM,
THOUGH, WHEN SHE SAYS THERE WERE
NO CAGES.
NO CAGES. REPORTERS SAW THE CAGES, OUR
REPORTERS SAW THE CAGES, MEMBERS
OF CONGRESS SAW THE CAGES.
I THINK WE HAVE OTHER
PHOTOGRAPHS, TOO.
PHOTOGRAPHS, TOO. CHAIN LINKED FENCE WITH A ROOF
ON IT AND THEY’RE LOCKED INSIDE.
I DON’T KNOW HOW ELSE TO
DESCRIBE THAT.
DESCRIBE THAT. >> IT GIVES ME THE CHILLS TO
THINK ABOUT WE’RE ACTUALLY AT
THE POINT AS A NATION, AS A
SOCIETY, WHERE WE HAVE
CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS ASKING THE
SECRETARY OF HOME LAND SECURITY
ARE THESE CAGES LIKE WE PUT OUR
DOGS IN OUTSIDE?
AND PWHICH I WOULD ARGUE
SOMETIMES THOSE CAGES ARE
INHUMANE FOR ANIMALS AND WE’RE
ARGUING OVER OUR CHILDREN BEING
SUBJECT TO THESE CONDITIONS.
AND YOU HEAR SECRETARY NIELSEN,
REPRESENTATIVE UNDERWOOD
REPRESENTATIVE UNDERWOOD QUESTIONING HER WITH THE
LONG-TERM PSYCHOLOGICAL IMPACT
OF THIS POLICY AND THE TRAUMA IT
CAUSES ON CHILDREN AND I WONDER
WHAT KIND OF HUMAN WRECKAGE WE
ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH
IN THE YEARS AND DECKADES TO COM
BECAUSE OF THIS ADMINISTRATION’S
CRUEL AND INHUMANE POLICY.
>> MIKA, HOW REMARKABLE YOU HAD
THE SECRETARY OF HOMELAND
SECURITY, COULD NOT CALL A CAGE
A CAGE.
A CAGE. A CAGE IS STILL A CAGE.
GIVE CREDIT TO THOSE FRESHMAN
LAWMAKERS THAT WERE QUESTIONING
HER, THEY DID EVERYTHING RIGHT
THAT WHEN REPUBLICANS WHEN THEY
WERE QUESTIONING MICHAEL COHEN
DID WRONG.
DID WRONG. IT WAS VERY IMPRESSIVE, WANT IT?
>> IT WAS.
I THOUGHT WE SAW THE STAR
FRESHMEN WOMEN PERFORMING
YESTERDAY, DOING THEIR DUTY,
THEIR SERVICE TO THIS COUNTRY,
ASKING MEASURED QUESTIONS, NOT
MAKING A SHOW OF THEMSELVES,
ASKING QUESTION AND SHOWING THE
ANSWERS THAT WERE BEING MADE
AVAILABLE TO THEM, WHICH SAID
MORE THAN ANYTHING WE COULD EVER
UNDERSTAND ABOUT WHAT’S GOING ON
HERE.
HERE. LET’S BRING IN NATIONAL
POLITICAL REPORTER FOR NBC NEWS
CAROL LEE.
CAROL LEE. YOU WERE COVERING JOHN KELLY,
WHO IS SPEAKING DOWN SOUTH I
BELIEVE AT DUKE.
WE’LL GET TO THAT.
BUT HE I BELIEVE SECRETARY
NIELSEN WORKED FOR HIM AND HE
BROUGHT HER TO THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION.
ADMINISTRATION. WHAT MORE CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT
HER QUALIFICATIONS FOR THE JOB
AS HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY
OR THE DYNAMICS THERE.
HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?
>> WELL, BASICALLY SECRETARY
NIELSEN AND JOHN KELLY WERE VERY
CLOSE.
CLOSE. SHE WAS HIS CHIEF OF STAFF WHEN
SHE WAS THE HOMELAND SECURITY
SECRETARY AND SHE CAME OVER, SHE
WAS HIS TOP DEPUTY AT THE WHITE
HOUSE.
HOUSE. FRANKLY, HER RELATIONSHIP WITH
PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS FRAUGHT FROM
THE START BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT
FELT LIKE JOHN KELLY HAD
MANIPULATED THE PROCESS TO
CHOOSE HIS SEXUCCESSOR.
HE WAS VERY IRRITATED LEARNING
SHE HAD WORKED FOR THE GEORGE W.
BUSH ADMINISTRATION.
BUSH ADMINISTRATION. HE’S SPENT THE FIRST YEAR
BERATING HER.
BERATING HER. AND WITH THE DEPARTURE OF JOHN
KELLY, THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE
PRESIDENT SEEMS TO HAVE
STAEBLIZED AND THAT’S IN NO
SMALL PART BECAUSE OF HER
TESTIMONY YESTERDAY WHERE SHE’S
GONE AL IN ON DRFT’S IMMIGRATION
POLICY.
POLICY. >> DONALD TRUMP IS WAKING UP
THIS MORNING TO THE NUMBER OF
LOSING STREAKS THAT HE CURRENTLY
IS JUGGLE, THE FACT THAT BARACK
OBAMA DID BETTER FOR DONALD
TRUMP IN EIGHT YEARS IN STOPPING
BORDER CROSSINGS.
BORDER CROSSINGS. WEEP HAVE A 12-YOUR SPIKE THAT’S
HIGHER THAN AT ANY TIME DURING
BARACK OBAMA AS ADMINISTRATION.
ANY CHANCE HE’S GOING TO TURN
HIS FIRE ON KIRSTJEN NIELSEN AND
START BLAMING HER FOR THAT?
HAVE YOU HEARD ANY RUMBLINGS OF
THAT?
THAT? >> IT’S A GREAT QUESTION, JOE.
WHAT WE’VE SEEN IN THE PAST IS
ANY TIME THE PRESIDENT’S BOBSED
INTO A CORNER AND FEELS LIKE
HE’S NOT GETTING IMPLEMENTEDIN A
IMPLEMENTEDIN -- IMPLEMENTED IN
A WAY HE DOESN’T AGREE WITH,
THERE’S THIS HISTORY THERE WHERE
HE’S VERY FRUSTRATED WITH HER
AND HE’S WANTED TO GET RID OF
HER AT VARIOUS TIEMGS.
CAN ENVISION A SITUATION WHERE
THIS CONTINUES TO BE THE CASE
AND HIM IF NOT FEELING LOOK THIS
POLICY AND IS NOT GETTING THE
CREDIT HE DESERVES, HE COULD
ABSOLUTELY TAKE IT OUT ON HER.
>> WE’LL GET TO YOUR REPORT ON
JOHN KELLY IN JUST A BIT.
KIRSTJEN NIELSEN, I REMEMBER HER
TESTIMONY WHEN SHE DEFENDED THIS
POLICY AS A DETERRENT AND I
DON’T KNOW ANY WAY TO SAY IT,
SHE’S BECOME THE FACE OF
ADMINISTRATION -- SHE IS DEALING
WITH THAT INVOLVES SKILLS AND
HUMANITY.
HUMANITY. AND SHE ACTED LIKE A HAPLESS,
HOPELESS ROBOT.
HOPELESS ROBOT. THERE ARE A LOT OF FAILED
CABINET SECRETARIES IN THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION BUT SECRETARY
NIELSEN’S INCOMPETENCE IS HAVING
A DIRECT IMPACT ON THE MOST
VULNERABLE -- CHILDREN.
WHEN SHE SAYS THEY DON’T USE
CAGES, LOOK AT THESE PICTURES.
SHE’S DEFYING THE OBVIOUS IN THE
MOST TRUMP-LIKE WAY.
DO YOU SEE THOSE CAGES?
THEY HAVE ROOFS ON THEM.
THE PEOPLE ARE LOCKED IN THERE.
CHILDREN, TOO.
CHILDREN, TOO. THE SITUATION IS SHAMEFUL.
AND IT JUST SEEMS LIKE SHE LACKS
THE ABILITY TO CARE ABOUT THE
BORDER CRISIS IN A REAL WAY.
THE BORDER CRISIS CAUSED BY THIS
WHITE HOUSE.
WHITE HOUSE. I’M JUST PRAYING PUBLIC PRESSURE
WILL FORCE HER TO CHANG COURSE,
MAYBE HAVE HER DO HER BEST AND
SAVE THESE CHILDREN FROM FURTHER
HEARTBREAK AND SUFFERING BECAUSE
THAT WHAT IS HAPPENING AND
THAT’S NOT WHO WE ARE.
YOU’RE WATCHING "MORNING JOE."
WE’LL BE RIGHT BACK.
>> WHAT IS A CHAIN LINKED FENCE
ENCLOSED TO A CHAMBER ON A CON
VEET INTO REPRESENT TO YOU?
IS THAT A CAGE?
>> IT’S A DETENTION SPACES THAT
EXISTED FOR DECADES.
>> DOES IT DIFFICULT CAGES THAT
YOU WHEN YOU LET THEM STAY
OUTSIDE?
OUTSIDE? IS IT DIFFERENT?