- Hi everyone, Sal Khan here.
Welcome to the daily home room.
For those of y'all who don't know what this is,
you're just showing up off from Facebook or YouTube.
This is something that we started
once we started seeing mass school closures
and it's really a way for all of us to stay connected.
Obviously Khan Academy as a not-for-profit
with a mission of providing
free world-class education for anyone anywhere.
Over the last many years we've been building resources,
that we've saw students use both outside of school
and inside of school with teachers.
And we could've never foreseen this crisis,
but when it started happening
we realized given our mission,
it's our duty to step up in any way possible
to support you the student, the teacher and the parent.
And so we've been putting out webinars
to help parents and teachers get set up.
We've been issuing daily schedules,
we just issued some learning plans last week
and we also thought it'd be fun to have something like this,
just a way to stay connected
and times with social distancing
and talk about interesting subjects.
It might be related to Khan Academy.
It might be education generally,
it might be just how do we make...
How do we navigate this crisis that we're going through.
I will give my the plug that I give every day,
remind everyone that we are supported
through philanthropic donations
from folks like yourself.
So if you're in a position to please think about donating,
I want to give a special shout out
to several corporations who've stepped up
in the last few weeks.
Bank of America stepped up that first weekend
when it was clear that
we were gonna have the school closings,
Google.org, AT&T, Novartis,
if any of you represent corporations
please reach out to us.
We were running a deficit even before this crisis
and our costs have gone up since then
and there's all sorts of things
we wanna do and accelerate forward
but we're only going to be able to do it
if we're able to get more support.
And thank you for the many thousands of people
who've donated over the last few weeks.
It all makes a difference
and allows us to accelerate our work.
So the focus of today,
I have a very fun guest
who's a close friend of mine
and also does very important work in the world.
We have Jim Steyer from Common Sense Media, hi Jim.
- Hi Sal and great to be here
and by the way, you should give money to Khan Academy
it is a fabulous organization
and its tires are donors.
We're a not-for-profit
but there's nobody better than Sal Khan Academy.
He's right about that.
- I did not tell Jim to say that,
but that's why we are close friends he knows.
So first one on this conversation,
I'm gonna ask you a few questions
about Common Sense Media generally
and maybe some of the things that we're doing together
and how we're navigating the crisis.
But if anyone has questions,
feel free to go on YouTube and Facebook
and our team members will surface questions
if you have questions for Jim
about his work at Common Sense Media
or any questions for me as well.
But Jim, maybe a good place to start.
Tell folks what Common Sense Media is
and why you started it.
Okay, so we are a nonprofit organization
and really the leading kids media
and advocacy organization in the U S.
I started it cause I'm a former school teacher.
And at Stanford prof
who cares a ton about really educating families
and kids in general
but also about the impact of media
and technology on their lives.
I started at 15 years ago.
We do three things.
We rate, educate and advocate.
So for folks out there in the audience who know us,
we've made every movie TV, video game, website,
book, music, you name it
Common Sense rates it and gives you information
so parents can make better choices for their kids.
The educate part of our work is
we created the field of
digital citizenship, digital literacy.
So we have a curriculum
in most of the schools in the United States
about the safe, ethical, responsible use of media
and technology at home and in the classroom.
And then finally, we're a leading child advocacy group
that advocates for everything like
everybody having Wi-Fi and broadband.
Every student in America having access to Khan Academy,
these kinds of resources
and also on issues like education and healthcare
and all these issues that matter to kids and families
who are in the U S
so a big nonprofit just like Khan Academy
and a huge fan of Khan Academy and Sal.
- We're fans of you and all of the work y'all do as well.
And so to make it tangible for a lot of folks,
I use Common Sense Media with my own family
when I'm just trying to find good stuff for them.
We're doing movie nights once a week now
with all the social distancing
and we turn to Common Sense Media a lot for that.
What are some of the things,
and I know we have some stuff going on together as well,
but where's... what were y'all focused on
before this crisis hit
and how has that evolved to some degree since then?
- Okay, great question Sal.
So basically before the crisis hit
we had this big consumer platform,
but 100 million people on it
trying to figure out what movies to watch
for their kids on movie night
or what video games were appropriate
for a 12 year old et cetera.
And we were in most of the schools in the U S
basically working with teachers and educators saying,
here's how to use the internet.
Here's how to use cell phones and social media
in a really responsible way.
And when this crisis hit,
one of the first things we thought was like wow
we need to work with Khan Academy.
But we also thought wouldn't it be great
to create one central hub
where schools could go and where families could go
get fined at one click of a button.
The best educational resources
could deal with the COVID-19 crisis.
So along with the support of folks like Khan Academy,
we created Wide Open School.org,
which is this new platform
our colleagues at Amplify helped build the platform.
And then honestly, we link to the best content out there,
Khan Academy, national geographic,
Sesame street, et cetera.
And the idea was make it really easy for parents
and students who are at home
and we're doing distance learning
and also for schools around the United States
to have one central place
where they could get the content they wanted
and actually to do homeschooling.
And as you mentioned, Sal,
having a daily schedule and you there
is really important cause everybody's at home right now
and trying to do learning from home
and whether they're on Khan Academy
or Wide Open School, it's just how
we're just trying to help everybody
learn from home and we think this is gonna be
changing the nature of education long-term.
Just like Khan Academy changed the nature of education
when Sal founded Khan Academy.
- Well, what's your sense, a lot of questions.
I'm having a lot of conversations these days
obviously about the whole virus generally,
but how do you think this is going to play out
over the next several weeks or months,
especially in relation to school
and kids maybe generally speaking?
- I actually think that ultimately we're gonna listen
and we're here in California, Sal.
So we've had a governor really step forward
and mayors and stuff.
I think we're gonna be sad to say,
I think we're gonna be learning from home
for the rest of the school year for sure.
And I think that even for the rest of 2020
much of learning is gonna be online much more than normal.
And therefore everybody out there
is gonna need to be able to access the internet
is gonna be able to access resources like Khan Academy.
And so I think this is gonna last longer than normal
and I think it's really important for all of us.
I have four children, Sal I know you're a doubting dad to.
I think we have to explain to our kids that
we're gonna be at home,
it's good family time,
but we're gonna need to figure out how to do school.
Also how to take breaks and get exercise
and not sit in front of a screen all day long.
So I think this is gonna last longer than we think.
I think for example, it's gonna probably affect summers
and a lot of us are gonna probably do some more at home
than we were planning on.
I know my kids who are a little older than your kids Sal,
they are in college and grad school
and they are taking their classes at home and I...
their summer jobs have changed.
So I sad to say, I think we're gonna have to figure out
how to work with this over the four months.
I don't think it's just gonna be weeks.
I think it'll be a few months to be honest.
Cause of the virus.
- Yeah, and we're getting some comments off of YouTube
Tuzeta Roro says, I have been using this with my kids.
I think they're referring to
either Common Sense or Wide Open School.
And I've been using this with my kids this week
and it helps me feel less guilty about screen time.
Actually that's an interesting issue.
How do you think about coping with screen-time guilt?
I'm happy to give my own views on that.
Although I'm conflicted.
What are your thoughts about that as a parent and an expert?
- So I actually, I'd love to hear what you think you Sal
as parent and an expert.
So definitely you're gonna have more screen time right now.
There's just no question
because literally my kids
are going to school online right now,
so they're going to be in front of a screen
more than they are.
And as Common Sense where we're the leading spokespeople
on this issue about balance and moderation
when it comes to screen time.
And by the way, it's a really important message,
but I think that we have to understand
these are unique circumstances.
So I do think that we should let up on
some of the hard and fast rules
we want our kids going to school doing online learning.
We want them using Khan Academy resources.
But I think you also as a parent, for example,
really wanna have balance in your kid's life
and you don't wanna plunk them in front of a screen
for eight hours in a row.
That's my take.
And that's what we're trying to do with this tire children.
How about you?
So what do you think?
- I feel very similar.
I've always my answer even before this crisis was,
it's not so much measuring what is happening on the screen,
but it's happening with measuring what's happening
in the student's whole life.
And so if a student is getting time
where they're socializing, spending time with their family,
they're running outside,
they have time for creativity, et cetera,
then I'm less worried about that screen time,
especially if that screen time is constructive screen time.
I think most of us if we saw
our middle school students spend
three hours composing a poem,
we wouldn't view that as negative screen time
or if we saw them I thought I'm a big fan
of reading a book for real,
but I know a lot of people like reading on a Kindle
that's not the end of the world type of screen time
if someone wants to.
I remember when I was a kid,
if I got really excited about some
I actually didn't have a computer at home growing up,
but I, at the local university
I somehow convinced a professor
to give me access to the computers.
But there were times where I spent
12 hours straight, 20 hours straight,
just creating something, coding something.
And that was, I mean, it was probably a little unhealthy.
I probably had more caffeine than I should have,
but it was actually constructed screen time
and obviously if you're learning.
And so, yeah, I'm trying to balance it myself.
And especially in this time of social distancing
and everyone is together.
Yesterday me and the family,
we were all on the couch together.
We had the popcorn going.
We watched two episodes of Will Smith's documentary
that's on Disney plus around one strange rock.
That was great, I thought that was great.
Screen time and great family time.
We learned a ton about aliens and astronauts
and how life happened to exist on earth.
So I think that kind of thing when you're with your family,
we're having a good conversation around it.
It was two hours of screen time of TV watching.
But I felt like it was a lot of bonding too.
So yeah, there's a balance.
- I agree with you.
I mean I actually think that's what I would say.
I think it's quantity and quality
and you're absolutely right.
And the other thing about this COVID-19 epidemic is
it forces more family time,
which is a really good thing.
I mean, your kids are a little younger than ours.
I know, you know, Sal.
And so for me, I have kids who are teenagers
and college age a little older right.
And it's great because
you actually are spending more time as a family.
You're having family dinners.
But I do think that there's,
it's when you talked about screen time,
you should think about quality
in terms of do good stuff.
Like just like you just described family screen time,
but educational stuff.
If you're gonna read a book online, that's great.
Not too much, just junk if you will.
It's sort of like food
and you're thinking about your nutritional diet.
You don't wanna have your kid only have junk food.
But it's also taking breaks.
You mentioned exercising, getting outside
as much as possible, getting a break,
sort of having a boundary that way,
the daily schedule that we were talking about
is important and it's balanced moderation.
But we're gonna be in front of screens more often,
so let's make it constructive quality screen time, why not?
- Yeah, and there's a couple of questions we have
for Amy Liang on YouTube is asking,
what inspired you to make the website Jim Steyer and well,
maybe I'll broaden the question a little bit.
You pointed you used to be a Stanford professor.
You're a lawyer by training.
What did you see 15 years ago
where you said, hey, there's something wrong with society.
We need a not-for-profit, like Common Sense Media.
- I'll say the honest answer.
So my life work, I've been a Stanford professor
and now I'm grading myself, but for 30 years.
And I was a civil rights lawyer first that maybe is correct.
And what happened was
I wanted to create
the most important child advocacy group in United States.
I'm really an advocate.
My life work is as an educator teacher
and as an advocate for children.
That's really what I do.
And when we started
when I started Common Sense,
we created the web platform,
the platform and all the ratings
and reviews and all that stuff
basically to get the public
to care about children.
And also we realized that that time,
this is 15 years ago,
that movies and TV shows and music
were having a huge impact on kids lives and family's life.
Remember there was no iPhone,
no Facebook, no Google, no Snapchat, nothing.
And in the day when we started Common Sense,
it was basically movies and TV.
And maybe some music and video games.
And but alright, the real thing for me was
to build a platform that everybody could join
if they wanted to care about children generally
and to create this membership
based sort of advocacy group for children,
particularly for disadvantaged children
who don't have a voice.
And lo and behold, 15 years later
Oh my gosh, who knew that we would have
100 million plus users
for our consumer reports guide.
And the truth is,
I didn't realize that the media technology piece
would be so big and who could have known
that Steve Jobs would bring out the iPhone
or that Mark Zuckerberg would invent Facebook
or that you'd have YouTube and Snapchat
and all the other things that are so key (mumbling).
But the truth is when it happened,
Common Sense was there and we did it.
And so I remember when you started Khan Academy
and I remember those conversations we had
and I was so happy that you decided to make Khan Academy
a not-for-profit because you could have built
a successful for profit business,
but your heart was so much in the right.
I never forget that
your heart was so much in the right place
of doing this as a not-for-profit
and making it the school for everybody in the world
and you should be very proud of that my friend, I'm serious.
But that's why we love working with you guys,
but I could have never predicted 15 years ago
that Common Sense would have gotten this big,
but the same mission is about kids basically.
It's how do you change the world for kids?
How do you improve the world for kids
particularly the ones who need it the most.
That's my biggest concern
by the way during the COVID-19 crisis.
Is how do we take care of the kids who are not living,
who are in a two room home with five people
and whose school isn't even doing learning yet
because they don't even have a system set up.
So I think for those of us, we're so fortunate,
I think it's really important to remember that
there's like tens of millions of kids out there
who have very few resources
and we want to care about them
and give them the same opportunities
that Sal Khan kids and Jim Steyer kids have.
But that's what motivates me.
That's why I started Common Sense.
And like you who knew Khan Academy would turn it,
you were just making videos for your nieces and nephews.
Look what happened.
Sort of the same thing with Common Sense.
- No, you never know.
And there's a question here from Facebook, Scott Yang,
who's been consistently asking good questions.
I mean I'm gonna broaden his question.
His question is, are video games fine?
But I'm gonna broaden it, which is
obviously Common Sense you guys are rating, what is good?
What's appropriate for different ages.
And I think all of us have a sense,
you see a video game where you're shooting people up
like hey, that might not be right.
I mean, frankly even for me myself,
if I watch a movie that's,
or a video game that's really gruesome,
I'm like this, when I was a teenager for some reason
I didn't mind it.
But now when I look at it, I don't know,
I'm like, Oh, that's troubling.
I'm not sure if I can sleep tonight.
And then there's things like social media
and things that aren't gruesome
but have other dynamics.
There's this stuff we know intuitively,
but what do we...
what evidence do we have that it is,
maybe some of this stuff could cause harm.
- We know it's really a good question.
So video games have been a big issue
for Common sense, right.
From day one, right.
So we were the first people we started rating them
and really calling out the violence
in certain that the old video games.
And explaining to parents
and educators that too much violence
is really bad for kids
that there's copycat violence and there's,
and also you can become a near devout.
So I would say it's really interesting
we because we realized
how incredibly popular video games are
and they were made to be that.
I have a 16 year old son
who if we allowed him to
he would play video games for 18 hours a day
and not all of them would be the video games
that I might recommend.
And so I think a couple of things
we worked very closely with the video game industry
could tell about you have to limit the violence.
Also there used to be racially stereotypical stuff
and a lot of sexist stuff.
There was a lot of content in video games.
It was certainly inappropriate
for an eight year old or a 10 year old.
And then there was the issue of
too much time in front of a screen.
So we have done a lot of advocacy around the issue of video.
We've done a lot to educate parents and teachers
about how much time kids love video
how much time kids are spending playing video games
and also how to find the good ones.
Because as you know Sal,
there are a ton of great games out there
and there are different kinds of learning.
Some of the most creative educational products
are actually game based products
that are really educational.
So again, I think it's both
quality of the game and the amount.
So I wouldn't let Jesse,
our son play 10 hours of video games
even though we probably would like to.
And you're right, teenagers particularly boys
are the ones who would spend all day
in front of a video game machine
if we let them.
But it's a great question
and I think it's one of the reasons why Common Sense.org
is such a good resource cause you can go there
and check on anything and say, hey, is this okay
for my eight year old or old or my 15 year old.
And, it's balanced, it's moderation.
But video games can also be awesome.
And I like to play them too.
But I'm not nearly as talented as my son is.
- And what about social media?
I hear at least anecdotally,
I've talked to university presidents,
they're talking about how anxiety
has gotten through the roof
and some people have pointed it
to this as the generation
that kind of grew up in on social media.
What do y'all know about that?
- Well, that's a really big issue.
So, first of all,
this is the first real generation of digital natives
who are growing up on social media platforms.
And so I think we try to take a fairly balanced approach.
We have been critical
of some of the big social media players
for allowing inappropriate content on their platform.
Whether it's cyber bullying
or the one thing about some of the platforms,
if you think about, say Instagram and Snapchat,
which are where a lot of kids are today.
There's a constant comparison of yourself.
I wrote a book back in 2012
called Talking Back to Facebook
where I talked about the fact
and as the father of two daughters,
that millions of girls out there
and boys too Photoshop their images
on Facebook and Instagram and Snapchat,
meaning they're wanting to show an ideal personality
or an ideal image, which is just unrealistic.
So we've tried to work closely with the big platforms
and tried to get them to clean up
some of the stuff that's on it
and be aware of how many hundreds of millions of kids
are on those platforms.
But the truth is this,
I know as a father of teenagers,
kids are on those platforms.
The question is how do you both limit the amount of time
and also use those platforms for the good stuff.
And I think this is an, as a parent,
you really have to talk with your kids
about social media and teachers do too
much to the curriculum
that we have in schools around the United States
and globally is about how do you deal with social media,
how do you use it responsibly?
And how do you not engage in bullying
or all the other kinds of things
that can be negative on a social media platform.
And we're very frank
with the guys who run the platforms too.
About trying to clean up those platforms
and make them kid friendly
and appropriate too.
So that I think that the big Common Sense mission.
- Have you found that folks have been
receptive to that, to your feedback?
- It depends, I will be I honestly Sal
I really will say this.
It depends on the platform and the company.
I think a lot of it has to do with
who the people who lead the organization.
It's the same thing in a way.
At the end of the day,
there are a ton of great people
who work at Khan Academy,
but you set the tone and the culture you do.
And there's a degree to which I do that at Common Sense.
So I think when it comes to that,
it really depends platform by
I think that's really true in life
that you have to show leadership
just like as a parent and you and your spouse
have to set the family role models
and you have to set good examples for your kids,
including social media and technology.
But I think that some of the platforms
have been more responsive than others.
The other thing is, it's funny
cause as a Stanford professor,
I've had so many thousands of students
who went into the technology industry.
I think that people who work in the tech industry
have to realize the incredible impact
of the platforms they built
on the lives of everybody out there.
And they have to be responsible
for the content of those platforms
and also some of the design of those platforms.
So that you don't have people sitting there
watching nine hours in a row of their favorite show.
So I think it's really about,
I think that there's a big role
for Common Sense and folks like you, Sal
and all of us and parents and kids out there
to ask the platforms to be responsible.
And I think one of the things about this crisis
is a lot of them have really stepped up to the plate.
And if you look at the partners with Wide Open School,
haven't just been you guys,
but Google and zoom have been really good
and Apple and that's been great
because they have such huge reach and they owe it,
I really feel they have a responsibility
to the public to do right by the public.
And I think that in a number of cases
they're really stepping up and should be.
And they're gonna need to do that long term
as education becomes increasingly online
and learn at home distance learning kind of stuff.
- Yeah and in fairness to them, and it is,
these are incredibly hard issues
and obviously we are right now
streaming on YouTube, Facebook.
So we're able to leverage social media
for hopefully not evil.
And even some of the things that are not optimal about it,
they're all these really interesting edge cases
around free speech or how do you control things?
Or if you have some machine learning algorithm
that's optimizing for views,
how do you control that?
So I definitely, understand where
some of their difficulties lie.
But it's a real thing.
When we talk to university,
people running universities and high schools right now,
the amount of anxiety and depression from kids,
to your point, comparing themselves to others
or getting bullied or bullying others is,
it seems a little bit out of control.
Well, I don't want to end on that note.
Well, Jim, why don't you tell what are your hopes?
What are your hopes for Common Sense Media?
What are your hopes for what might happen
in the coming months ahead or coming years ahead?
Right before we got on,
we were talking a little bit about
whether we could get to a world of universal
at home internet access.
What are lets end on a high note if you're still there.
Maybe Jim has disappeared.
So anyway, well I'll thank Jim for joining.
I thought that was really valuable
and we were able to get a 90% of what we were hoping to get
to get from get from Jim.
They do really great work at Common Sense.
And I encourage any of y'all with more questions.
We have a little bit more time.
I'm always happy to answer these questions.
I think there are,
there's actually a lot of questions feed.
Someone asked this is Nickeel Govendor asks
for both myself and Jim, how has social media
had a positive and negative effect on your life?
I would say social media for me personally
has for the most part been a positive effect on my life.
Obviously the early days of Khan Academy,
people think Khan Academy started with videos.
We actually started with this little software platform
that I was running for my cousins
and I made videos to supplement that software.
But obviously having, if you consider YouTube
to be a social media platform,
having a place where I could publish
and people discover allowed people to discover
Khan Academy allowed some of the first funders
to realize that this was an effort worth doing.
So I think, Khan Academy has been from that
we obviously still levered social media a lot.
We're doing it right now.
But I would also say that I'm fortunate
and I do consider myself fortunate that,
I didn't in the same way grow up with social media.
I could imagine the things that Jim is talking about
when you're 12, 13 years old, 14 year old,
or you're a 10 year old with a fake account,
pretending you're 13 years old.
That it can put a lot of pressure on you
to try to be something you're not,
or when your frontal lobe isn't fully developed,
you might be putting things out there into the world,
that later you might be not so proud of.
And it's good.
It's good that for a lot of us we were lucky enough
that it wasn't documented on social media.
And I think that can also lead to some stresses.
Generally in my own personal life,
I've gotten a lot of people saying, hey, Sal,
you have to get on Twitter more.
You gotta post on Instagram more.
And I think like the 17 or 18 year old Sal
or the 20 year old Sal actually would've loved doing that,
where it said, look at this really deep thing I have to say.
But I think these days I feel a little bit
maybe overexposed and I'm like,
well people really don't need that little weird thing
that I'm thinking about right now.
But overall I think social media
can be a very positive thing,
but you just have to be careful.
Jim people were asking
how is social media affected you personally? (mumbling)
Well, what about yourself?
Has social media been a positive
or negative or and how for you Jim?
- It's interesting, I think what you just said
is so intelligent.
I think it's been overall a positive.
It's interesting cause as a parent,
I've there've been a lot of times
when I was concerned about particularly my kids
when they were younger about some of them that are bullying,
but also that comparison.
I mentioned the body image issue.
Me, I'm not a big user of social media myself.
It's all about how you use it.
It's like life.
If you use it wisely and in balance and moderation,
use it for the good thing.
Social media can be incredible.
If you use it for negative things,
to be hurtful to other people
or to worry about I took to play out your identity.
It can be challenging.
It's an ongoing effort for me as a parent.
But I think we have a huge role
and you have a huge role
in educating our own kids about it first and foremost.
Setting a good role.
I would say that the parents
are the number one thing you do
is try to be a good role model right.
You have to model that for your goods.
If you're bullying other people online
or on a social media platform
or texting nasty things to people,
even as an adult cause adults do that, that's not good.
But this is the world we live in.
I'm glad I didn't grow up with him.
Do those sound like that?
That was a really good,
I'm glad I grew up in an era where you just didn't have it.
But now I think it's all about using it
and using common sense.
- Yup, no that's a good way to end.
And I will add I've had moment,
a lot of what has driven in my life
is my attempts to help my cousins.
There's been a couple of moments
over the last few years
where I literally would call up a cousin
and I was like, do you realize that I and the whole world
can see that picture that someone took of you
in that situation, take it down.
Future employers will see it.
This is not going to be good for you.
And so I think a lot of folks don't realize
that someone takes out their phone
and takes a picture of you and something,
doing something silly
and it's out there
and it's actually really hard to get it out.
And your employers will see it.
Your future in-laws will see it.
You have to be, very careful.
And I think a lot of young people don't realize
that it's not just the here and now.
There's long term implications.
So yeah be very careful of all of these things.
So Jim, no better person than yourself
to talk about social media and media generally.
Thanks for joining and
thanks for your partnership on all
of what we're trying to do to support families.
- No, honestly my honor to be here,
I am such a huge fan of Khan Academy
and of yours personally and I,
but I would say the same thing.
Good luck as a dad, just like good luck to me as a dad
during these crazy times.
But we are huge fans
and I'm gonna end by saying what you,
what I said at the beginning,
you guys should all support Khan Academy.
It is like this incredible institution,
not-for-profit started by
one of the best people I've ever known.
So bless you, thank you
it was an honor to be here.
I will look forward to working with you
for many years to come.
- Great thanks Jim.
And stay safe.
Take care of the family.
Alright, well thanks everyone for joining.
It was a fun conversation
and please continue to join us for,
I'll see you on Monday with our next daily live stream.
(sniffing)