- So Yewande, thanks so much
for joining us to chat about your new book, Reclaiming.
- Thank you.
- Very exciting.
- I know. I feel like anytime
someone like, introduces the book,
I feel sick.
Like I feel physically sick,
and I think it's just like, anxiety.
I think because the book is out soon,
I think the whole week I've just been feeling
so anxious just because I know that like,
people are actually going to read it now,
and it's like, I don't know.
I just feel so sick.
(laughs)
- And this book sort of came off the back of
an article that you wrote in 2021
about racial renaming,
and so that became one of the essays
or chapters in this book.
- [Yewande] Yeah.
- And you write beautifully about
the meaning of Yewande,
and your mom kind of explaining that to you.
So, can you explain what your name means?
- [Yewande] Yeah.
So my name means 'mother returning' or
'mother coming back', and basically
the first daughter who was born into a family
after a grandmother has died
is called Yewande,
so it basically is a reincarnation of,
basically a reincarnation of a belief
that the mother has returned through me.
So, basically, my grandmother has returned
through me, and that's what my name means.
- And so the book moves on to discuss
lots of different things.
You've said that you found writing
the chapter about colorism quite difficult.
Why did you find that one a hard one?
- I think I had so much to write,
obviously being a dark-skin black woman,
I had so much to write that I didn't know
how to structure it.
And, when I did sit down to write,
it was, just angry?
And, the question I always asked myself
when I was writing every chapter was,
"How do I want my audience to hear this?"
What voice, and what tone, things like that.
And I remember reading it back,
and it was just angry, it was just painful.
There wasn't any kind of structure to it,
and it was because I don't think
I've healed from the effects of colorism,
and it's something that I deal with every single day.
So, to be able to sit down and write
a chapter that was structured correctly
and that provided a good balance in
conversation and education,
and also still delivered in a loving way
was very difficult for me.
And that's why I started,
it was the first chapter I actually wrote.
- [Interviewer] Was it?
- (laughing) Yeah.
- So you struggled first,
tried to get that out of the way?
- Yeah, I was like let's gut this.
Yeah, because I already knew the chapters
that were going in the book,
so it was all about writing it.
And I said, gosh,
let me start this first because first
I actually thought it would be my easiest chapter
because I had so much to say.
But then when I sat down I was like no,
this is gonna be a hard one.
(laughs)
- Yeah.
- And yeah, it took the longest to write.
Yeah, definitely.
- [Interviewer] So, how does colorism affect you
on a day-to-day basis?
- It affects me in work,
it affects me in relationships,
it affects me in everyday of life.
The way I'm seen by other people,
I think being a dark-skin black woman
there is this,
horrible stereotypes that we're angry,
I think in general black woman are seen as angry.
But I think because lighter skin is more palatable
to mainstream media,
I think when you're darker,
you're kind of pushed to the side.
Especially in my line of work,
where it's industry.
It's all about how you look
and how you present yourself.
You're pushed to the side because you're not
"marketable" to mainstream media.
You're pushed to the side because you're not
seen as attractive.
You're pushed to the side because sometimes
you know, people have this horrendous idea
that darker woman are less attractive
and seen as more masculine.
And you're constantly living
with that everyday, even with dating.
Other black men will tell you that,
"Oh I actually don't date darker-skin women,"
or, "I prefer lighter-skin women," and things like that, so.
Everyday you're faced with challenges
just because you're darker-skin,
and you miss a lot of opportunities because
of it as well, so.
- Yeah. And you mentioned dating,
you write about dating in the book,
lots of people know you from a reality dating show,
how is dating for you right now?
- (laughing) Uh, dating, it's a tricky one.
Because I was kind of saying in the book that
I don't think I'm a good dater,
or I even know how to date.
And I think it's because I have
all these preconceptions of what
a perfect date looks like,
or what a perfect relationship looks like,
or I have this fairytale idea,
this Disney-complex of what a real long-lasting
relationship looks like and what it mirrors.
And, learning to leave that behind and allow for
spontinuity and organic-ness has been hard for me.
(laughs)
- But I guess admitting it is the first step
in maybe, I don't even want to say healing,
but admitting is the first step of moving forward
and learning.
But yeah, I'm just a terrible dater I think.
(laughs)
- You also write that dating apps
can be quite shit coming back to the colorism thing,
so explain what you experience when you are on dating apps.
- (sighs) The trauma of it all.
(laughs)
- I guess, it depends what type of dating app,
because I'm on an exclusive one that I should
probably cancel my membership to,
but like even the men on there are
all kind of white,
and there's only a few black men.
And then few black men that are there,
although they haven't said it to my face,
I just feel like, or maybe it's me just internalizing,
I think of a lot of things,
I just think I'm not their type.
And also, the messages I get are always
very sexual.
It's never like a "Hey, how are you? How was your day?"
I think they're always kind of sexual,
but I think that happens to a lot of black women
because we're sexualized a lot, so, yeah.
Dating apps for me personally,
they just don't work.
- Mm. What would be your ideal way to meet someone?
- Before I went on a show,
I would've said a bar or just a party,
or at some friends gathering or something.
But now, I just feel so anxious all the time
because I just don't know who's genuine
or who actually (indistinct) or because
they've seen me on TV, or, I don't know.
So I think, I'm an over-thinker as well
so I over-think everything and then
it just never works out.
(laughs)
- I feel like those,
I mean there must be a million perfect people for you.
- I hope so!
- [Interviewer] There must be.
- Well, where are they?
(laughs)
- You are now, of course, a writer,
but you're also a social media influencer.
- Yeah.
- How do you feel about that as a job, do you enjoy it?
- Do I enjoy it? I think like any job
it has its pros and its cons,
and there's of course loads of pros.
The amazing opportunities you get,
like I would not be able to publish this book
if I wasn't in the position that I'm in now
having a large platform.
Things like that would never happen.
I would never have been given the opportunity
to write for The Independent.
So there's definitely pros but obviously
there is a lot of cons when it comes to
mental health, people expecting certain things of you,
people thinking that they know you.
I feel like your identity is kind of
torn apart a little bit.
You lose yourself a lot.
So yeah, pros and cons.
- Yeah. How does it compare to being a scientist?
- It's completely different.
It's completely different because with a professional job,
you study so hard for it.
The only cons I can think of is having to
wake up early.
In the company I was working in
we had loads of cancer patients
and we had all their stories,
and you would walk down the hall,
cause I used to work night shifts,
you'd walk down the hall four or five o'clock
in the morning,
and you would see their faces.
And you would smile,
I would smile and walk past.
And so there's so many pros to it.
I don't even know why I'm getting upset.
I feel like I have,
it's just been so emotional the last two weeks.
Yeah, there's pros and cons.
- Would you go back to being a scientist?
- Um, I think I would, yeah, definitely.
Not now though.
I like to think I'm young-ish.
(laughs)
- I like to thing I'm young-ish
and I have so much time,
let's hope so.
(laughs)
- I feel like I have so much time to
do so much things that I just
don't want to rush life.
I just wanna take each day as it comes,
and when it's the right time to go,
it's the right time to go back.
But yeah.
- Yeah. And as a woman, a black woman in Stem,
how did you kind of experience that through
university and then a career?
Because there are still so few women in general
in Stem.
- Yeah. I did experience a lot of racism.
Which I thought, I don't know.
I think because I was always the only black person
in a classroom,
that you don't wanna go to racism first.
You never wanna say "Oh my god, it's this it's this."
Because I even remember when I was in university
and one of my lecturers who I sadly had
for three years would just never give me my marks.
And I didn't know why because I was always
so studious and I just didn't get
why I wasn't doing well in his lectures.
And I just thought, I always thought it was me
but I think I quite frustrated and I went to
his office and I said "Oh hi, I just don't agree
with the marks that I was given.
Can we review my paper together?"
And everyone in my class thought I was crazy,
but they expected it from me because
one day I did stand up and demand to teach the lecture.
(laughs)
- I think they kind of expected it.
I went and I said, "No, I want to see my paper."
And while we stood there for five minutes
I went up by like 25 percent.
And I just thought, 'Oh my god, the rest of my paper
is-"
But then I thought, 'But why?'
Is it because you thought I wasn't intelligent?
Why was everyone else given the marks
they deserved and why was it not me?
And it was always not me.
And I felt like, those are the kind of things
that I had to contend with in university.
- And so, with this book,
which is out super soon,
what do you hope that people will take away from it?
- I hope people can relate to it.
I hope people can learn something,
even if it's something small.
A sentence, a paragraph.
I hope they can take something from it
that changes their outlook on life positively.
I hope my experience,
if anyone is feeling alone,
they can feel like we're all in this together.
And maybe it would be great
if someone could grow from it.
That would be great.
(laughs)
- Amazing. Well, it's been so great
to chat to you. Thank you, so much.
- Thank you.